Some very old discussions:
30. So why does Marc provoke Gregor in the locker room? Is he trying to get himself beaten purposely? Is he trying to get enough evidence on Gregor to get him fired? Does Marc now just hate himself? Do we find clues in the next scenes of Marc dancing alone in the gay bar, doing drugs and wishing his pickup was Kay, but no, not Kay. Was Marc truly not gay and only in love in Kay?
Cheers, V.
To me, this is the “short dirty fight” that Ennis picks with the guy in the pick-up, after Thanksgiving dinner at Alma’s, when she tells him she knows the truth.
As for Limpinski: Is he a latent homosexual?
The scene in the bar is strange. Is he trying to recreate his time with Kay? Why take x? He was not a drug guy by any means, and it doesn’t work that fast, he was on that guy in a second.
One thing I did not like was when he raised his fist to hit the guy; another place where the director took it right to the edge and brought it back.
Yeah, very sad to watch. He knows he’s lost everything, he knows it’s his fault, he’s facing up to his responsibility in hurting Bettina and Kay. Shit, is right.
Two scenes I have thinking about a lot:
Marc alone in the bar. When I watched the movie the first time, I thought Marc wanted to investigate his gay feelings by having sexual contact with another guy.
But I think you are right BF, he was trying to recreate his time with Kay. That's why he does exact the same things: dancing, taking drugs, the bathroom.
And maybe that's the moment he realizes it was not just sex with Kay, he found out that Kay was not exchangeable for just another guy.
In the audio comments they didn't say anything about the reason Marc went to the gay bar. But Max and Hanno made a joke. During the scene Marc was in the bathroom with the other guy, Max said: that was difficult for you, wasn't it Hanno? With someone else. Hanno said: I missed you, you can see that. Then both laughed and Hanno said: no, that was really terrible.
But I think this was more about Max/Hanno then Kay/Marc because both actors are clear about the fact that they only wanted to do this movie with each other.
The second scene I thought about is the scene with that Gregor guy. Why did Marc provoke him and why did he let Gregor abuse him?
The first time I thought: why don't you hit him back and hit him really hard for what he did to Kay en what he is doing to you now?
But from the first moment I had the feeling that Marc was mentally the strongest in that scene. Remember wat Gregor said after he hit him: what are you laughing now?
He had no grip on Marc and that made Gregor even angrier.
I think Marc accepted his feelings for Kay, accepted the fact that he fell for another man and did not want to hide this side of him anymore. Like: this is me, whether you like it or not.
And it was like he was making something up to Kay by no longer denying what they had together.
And it may sound rediculous, but when Marc said to Gregor: Is that all you've got? PUSSY, that was for me the most emotional moment of the movie.
He said Kay's word, pussy. And the way he said it, I can't explain why, but for me this made Kay so present. Really, I cried my eyes out.
No, I dont think it had something to do with self-punishment. I think Marc was no langer ashamed and able to stand up for himself.
No No No, it doesn't sound ridiculous! You are 100% right! He admits to Gregor, a known homophobe, that he has been with Kay. When Marc says to Gregor "pussy", he is remembering everything about Kay, and what he learned from him. It's an extremely emotional scene. He is drawing strength from Kay, what he learned from him - very very emotional.
Not sure about Limpinski - nice choice for a name aye? There have been studies I've read which implies those exhibiting the most strong homophobic behaviors may be latent.. Yes on the BBM scene with Ennis punching the guy thru the truck window - raging anger.
The bar scene (to me) is Marc's uber desperate attempt to replace Kay's touch or feeling with another lover... he's grown fond (enjoyed) the experience. It is there, in the stall with the other guy, that he realizes it is ALL gone.. Kay is gone, Bettina is gone and a blow job by a stranger is not and never will be Kay. I sort of flashed to the Jack "Tell you what" scene at the tent with Ennis the last time they were together - though there's no one for Marc to tell.. Marc's experiences with X or most substances seemed very sheltered / limited (back to the parents...) and only have been with Kay. Yes the raised fist is symbolic of Marc fighting / anger with himself but then realizes he can leave.. back to the forest.. only this time he does leave V.
My thoughts:
Gregor is saying nasty things about Kay and it's hard to let someone trash-talk of a person you love. And especially when Kay isn't there to defend himself, Marc feels the need to do so. I have always seen the same thing in this scene as I see in the next scene, the club scene. Which is missing Kay. Marc uses the exact same words as Kay and is behaving exactly like Kay with Gregor. "Getting horny, huh?" and "Pussy." Marc could have handled the situation very differently, but that copying tells me that Marc is missing Kay. He's making Kay present and like in the club scene, Marc is making a recreation of the past. I guess the "acting like Kay" also tells about that he's proud of Kay, he was perfect, the way he was.
But why not just defend Kay's honour, why does Marc feel the need to provoke Gregor. Lot of the times when a person is being hurt mentally, for some strange reason, the person wants to also feel the pain physically. And I think this is why Marc wants to be beaten up by Gregor. Or this might also be simply about self-punishment. Does Marc try to fight back.. no.
Marc does kind of come out of the closet too, but I don't think that is what this scene's about. I think he just happens to come out of the closet. Sure, in the past he would never ever had revealed that he has been with a man, but now that Marc has lost EVERYTHING.. what is there to lose anymore.