Was: Laramie Tales: New Working Title: Tales of Greenlea County (ARCHIVE)

[souxi]

"SPOILER"

What a mess this is. Ennis is just eaten up with guilt over Jack, because year after year, he said no to him, whenever he talked about the two of them having a life together. Now that Ennis is having a life with Ellery, he feels guily as hell. He,s giving Ellery what he refused point blank to give to Jack. Every now and then something happens to make Ennis feel even more guilty, ie the wedding and now the prospect of a reception. Again something else he would never have even considered for Jack. Ellery is so desperatly in love with Ennis, he,s obviously prepared to not worry about how he feels, just Ennis. He,s putting Ennis before himself all the time. Wes can see this and is obviously not prepared to sit back and let things go on like this. Now he thinks that Ellery is mollycoddling Ennis. He can see that Ellery is feeling like second best to Jack, despite Ennis assuring him hes not second best, and out of love for Ellery, hes not prepared to stand by and watch whilst Ellerys, feelings, in his view, are largly ignored, in favour of keeping Ennis happy at all costs. I think I,ve got that right lol. So, the question is, what to do about it? If Wes talks to Ennis and tells him how Ellery really feels, that will only make him feel even more guilty and wretched. What a mess! I can see both thier points of view though. Ellery just wants to keep Ennis happy, no matter how he feels. So if Wes did talk to Ennis, what on earth would he say to him? "its about time you got over Jack? it,s about time you got over this guilt?" thats never going to happen. I have NO idea what the hell the answer is, I really dont. I,m glad I,m not the one who has to sit and write this. Good luck Louise lol.

[MaineWriter]

Siouxi, very good comment and lots of good questions...

Remember when Ennis and Ellery were trying on the rings...the delmarriage, the night before the wedding? And Ellery teared up and said, "God, I feel so stupid." I have thought that there was a big part of conversation that was unsaid there, something along the lines of, "I feel so stupid, because once I realized I was queer, I sort of gave up on the idea of ever being married...but this makes me realize that I want to be married."

Ennis and Ellery are both very traditional people, I think, who value hard work, family, and a stable, monogamous relationship. I think that Ellery denied he wanted to be married because he believed he couldn't be married. But now he is. To Ellery, the reception is important, not to celebrate that he is gay but to celebrate a traditional milestone in life. Wes had a party for him (Ellery) when he got promoted, another traditional milestone, and Ellery was very pleased and touched by that celebration. To me, this is a similar situation.

I think that might be an approach he could use in discussing it with Ennis.

Leslie

[louisev]

that is a pretty deep interpretation to put on that line, Leslie. I am not quite sure I would agree with what Ellery meant by that!!!

[MaineWriter]

that is a pretty deep interpretation to put on that line, Leslie. I am not quite sure I would agree with what Ellery meant by that!!!

Well, that came to my mind when I first read that chapter, and I have re-read it several times and I still think he had thoughts unsaid, which remain unsaid.

As Wes pointed out, this isn't all about Ennis, only. Or as my husband would say, "There is no I in COUPLE." LOL Ellery obviously has very strong feelings, too, and I don't think it is an issue that he and Ennis are in opposition on this...but that is the way it is feeling right now.

L

[louisev]

update!

http://louisev.livejournal.com/198867.html  "12. Eclipse"

[magicmountain]

SPOILER





I am reposting here some comments I made on the Live Journal thread (which I have slightly amended). Feel free to disagree!

I see a chain reaction going on here. Ennis is not being given the privacy a man (even more than a woman) sometimes needs as part of the grieving process. If Edna had used discretion and just kept quiet without alerting Wes and then Wes shooting off his mouth to Ellery, Ennis could be allowed to work through his feelings in peace.

This way he is being put the spot and we see the results rippling out now to Ellery. Men often need to go into their cave to heal in peace. This sometimes means they don't want to talk about things. Least said is soonest mended operates here.

I feel Wes is putting his oar in where he shouldn't. How would he like getting into a conversation about his relationship with Edna with the staff? Even though he has the best of intentions, and he is a father figure to Ellery, interfering in someone else's intimate relationship is not wise. Indeed it is intrusive and can cause more trouble in the long run. It is best to wait to be invited and then tread with utmost caution.

Ellery knows that anything to do with weddings is a trigger for Ennis' grief. It was amazing that Ennis agreed to a wedding ceremony as it was something they could have reasonably skipped - even though we all wanted it! Edna and Wes are being over zealous in promoting the reception and we see the result.

Best to have let sleeping dogs alone and let Ennis work his way through things in peace and privacy. Sometimes blurting everything to your partner (which Ennis felt compelled to do once confronted) causes more trouble than its worth (eg confessing to infidelity). Wes and Edna should back off. Ellery should stop cross-examining Ennis because he will hear things he doesn't need to hear. Leave Ennis alone for five minutes and he will get past the moment - if he is just allowed to!

[mariez]

SPOILER


Louise - I'm not sure whether to bow in admiration or give you a standing ovation  for your deft handling of such an impossible - but real - situation for everyone involved.  I guess I'll do both!     I'll repeat what I've said earlier - damn fine writing!

You guys are great.  I love reading all your thoughtful and insightful comments.

You know it was interesting when Ellery told Wes - "You ain't my daddy . . ."  Because Wes loves Ellery as though he were his own son and Wes was definitely in Papa Bear mode.  Ellery may be 39 and a Chief Deputy - but he is, to Wes, his baby bear.  And nothing is more painful to a Papa (or a Mama) than seeing their baby hurting.  Was Wes out of line?  Of course.  Do I think it was realistic that he would step out of line in this situation?  Absolutely!  Wes is a take charge guy who likes to believe he can solve any problem presented to him (or that he sees).

The plans for the wedding reception took on a life of their own . . . as almost all wedding receptions that I've seen, heard of, or been personally involved with, tend to do!  I'm not sure what it is about receptions that makes normally sensible people absolutely nuts!   

I think Ennis wanted to marry Ellery as much as Ellery wanted to marry Ennis.  I don't think he was talked into it and I don't believe he would have done it if he didn't really want it with all his heart.  I have a lot of respect for Ennis.  He is an extremely intelligent and thoughtful man and I don't think he can simply be led or coaxed into doing things he doesn't want to.  It was Ennis after all, who initiated their first informal "ceremony" with the words they used in their formal ceremony - "You belong to me and I belong to you."  I guess I don't really feel that their wedding could have reasonably been skipped - more than any other wedding could reasonably be skipped that is  - because I think all that is necessary for a wedding ceremony to take place is that both people want it with all their hearts - and I think that was the case with Ennis and Ellery. 

I think it is necessary for Ennis and Ellery to talk these things through - as Ennis himself realized.  Suppressed feelings and emotions lead to resentments and even more hurt.  For Ennis, guilt and grief are intertwined.  But guilt is only productive when it leads to a positive action.  In Ennis's case his guilt (although completely real and completely understandable) is destructive - to Ellery, to their relationship, but most of all to himself.  I think Ennis in this last chapter realizes that he must find a way to separate his grief, which never completely goes away, from his destructive guilt. 

But, of course, since we have already read "Red Stallions for Christmas" we know that a reception does indeed take place!  And I take a lot of comfort from this paragraph near the end of that story - I think it shows that Ennis does indeed make a lot of progress in this area:

“Okay...” Ennis said uncertainly, and Ellery hurried off to the bedroom. He was tempted to get up and pace, but kept his seat, smiling at the pine wreath Ellery had bought and put up – not on the outside of their door – but inside it. He took a deep breath through his nose, and he was suddenly filled with a vision of the clear, high mountain air, the hush of snow as it fell from overladen branches, the twitter of a winter bird annoyed by snowflakes wetting its wings, taking flight away from the miniature avalanche. And the sweet memory of the kiss of his lover, the ache of loss now assuaged by newly discovered joy

Just my two cents, anyway!  (Well, maybe more like a dime's worth - I did ramble on!)

Thanks again, Louise!

Marie

[MaineWriter]

Marie, these are great comments. All I have to add is...what she said! LOL

Leslie

[magicmountain]

SPOILER

I think it is necessary for Ennis and Ellery to talk these things through - as Ennis himself realized.  Suppressed feelings and emotions lead to resentments and even more hurt.  For Ennis, guilt and grief are intertwined.  But guilt is only productive when it leads to a positive action.  In Ennis's case his guilt (although completely real and completely understandable) is destructive - to Ellery, to their relationship, but most of all to himself. 
Marie

Hi Mariez,

I agree that Ennis needed to unburden his terrible load of guilt and work through his grief, particularly in the early stages of his relationship with Ellery. This his did as he gradually opened up and started to accept his sexuality which was so bound up in his silent shame which kept his mouth shut. Ennis has done a lot of talking encouraged by Ellery and this has got him over the hump of that early very intense period. But there comes a time, I believe, that continued talking about your lost one and your grief starts to try the patience and understanding  your friends and even your partner. That is why today people sometimes go to grief counselors! Ennis doesn't have this option of course and if things become unbearable again he needs to speak about it to Ellery - and he would because Ellery would know and encourage it out.

But there are instances along the path of recovery where a person has a momentary relapse into grief (and guilt, its companion) which they can get over with their own resources. These will get less as time goes on and Ennis learns to come to terms with his past with Jack. Does he have to dig up his relationship with Ellery by the roots  and have crisis talks with Ellery every time this happens? This is when it starts to become counterproductive.

Making a federal case out of it blows it up making it worse than it need be. Ellery feels relegated to second fiddle and the reception is turning into a test of Ennis' commitment to Ellery. It's almost as if he is being made to choose between honouring Jack's memory in his own mind (by refraining from such a public celebration of his new love) and making a public statement of commitment to Ellery. And that statement of commitment - a wedding reception - is the very thing that triggered the relapse in the first place. Why push things to that extent?

These days Ennis is coming good and his relationship with Ellery is stable and happy. He is living with Ellery, has gone through a wedding service and wears his ring. He is going to have periods of crying and residual guilt feelings. What more does he have to do?

I think Ennis in this last chapter realizes that he must find a way to separate his grief, which never completely goes away, from his destructive guilt.

You've answered my last question Mariez. Very perceptive comment! I couldn't agree more! However, in my opinion, rather than more talking, Ennis needs to be given more time.

PS I have been focussing on Ennis' side of things and there is also Ellery to consider. Ellery's resentments follow on from his prising out of Ennis the fact he feels the reception makes him feel guilty about Jack. It is highly likely that once Edna had proposed the reception, Ennis' silent reluctance would have grated on him anyway. Is talking about it going to help Ellery feel better or simply make matters worse? Again, I return to my main point. Left alone, Ennis may have just stepped back from his conflicted feelings for Ellery's sake and gone through with it. It may have been the catalyst for his finally understanding that his future with Ellery and Ellery's happiness is the most important consideration in his life now and that his guilt is not only becoming destructive to himself but to the man his loves and their relationship.

[magicmountain]

Just a postscript. Who would have thought that the wedding reception or party would end up being so fraught! I am probably not the only one who thought, like Edna, that it would be a jolly affair and an excuse have more fun and high jinks! As veterans of BBM and the Laramie Saga, we should have known better!