Author Topic: Jack and Alma  (Read 28081 times)

Online serious crayons

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 07:21:22 pm »
Yes, it's so cute the way Ennis glances over at Alma when Jack says "smiles a lot," as if expecting her to share in his delight. Little does he know!

Early on, I think Ennis cares a lot about both Alma and Jack -- well, more intensely about Jack obviously, but in a loyal friendly way about Alma. He doesn't like it when either of them disses the other. Not being jealous of Lureen, he doesn't pick up on the tension between them.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2006, 09:47:24 pm »
I watched the DVD last night and looked for the expression. Was it after he said something along the lines of "Pleased to meet you, ma'am?" I bet there was a bit of animosity there. :)

Hi there,
Yes, it's really the very last moment before Jack backs out the door.  It is after he says "Pleased to meet you".  Maybe I'm reading way too much into it.  But, to me he seems to look at Alma in an intense way for just a second or two.  It reminds me of the intense look on his face in the "prayer of thanks" campfire chat when Jack says "you and Alma that's a life?" And Ennis replies by saying that the situation isn't Alma's fault.  Jack looks at Ennis there in a pretty intense way there too.  I chalk all of this up to a bit of competitiveness.

Amanda, I've totally noticed that expression right where you describe it.  Thought it was just me - glad to know I have a partner in crime, at least, on that one.  I think you're right on with that observation.  And allow me to seize yet another opportunity to say Damn, he's good.
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Offline Rayn

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2006, 04:37:51 am »
Well, I gotta have some say here too, I guess, since I have some strong feelings about it.

     I don't think Jack was competition to Alma or vice versa.  Competition is about "winning and losing".  Jack wasn't so much competition as he was a threat that Alma could not defeat. That was something far more frightening to Alma.  In those days, the 1960s, and in Alma's background, there was nothing to prepare her for what she encountered with Ennis and Jack.  She could not compete with Jack because he was a man.  That's why she was so stunned when she saw them kissing in the stairway.

     I will tell you why I feel this way too.  As a very young man, I was engaged to a good woman.  I ended it because I knew I couldn't put her through the "facade of a marriage", a marriage of convention but not of love.  When we broke up, she asked me if I had met another woman.  I told her no, I hadn't met another "woman".  I watched her mind processing this information, she then asked, "Is it "GUYS"?!  "Yes", I said, "It's guys."   She was dumbfounded, and after a moment of thought said, "Well, if it were another woman, I could do something about it maybe, but if it's guys then there's nothing I can do!" 

     I think this was a big part of what Alma was having to deal with; something she could hardly comprehend and could never compete with, the threat of losing Ennis to the love of a man was all too much for her.  And yes, jealousy, feelings of competition were there too, but the deeper feelings of frustration, powerlessness and hopelessness in the face of something almost unimaginable were what ended her marriage to Ennis.   

     I felt sad and concerned for Alma and, the first time I saw the movie, I felt her pain and cried with her because she really loved Ennis, but I also felt for Jack.  You know in the book, Jack was not looking at Alma with any competitiveness; he was really scared when they met, so scared his legs were shaking, but I think he knew Ennis was "his man" too.

     Consider Jack for a second.  I think he set his sights on Ennis from the moment they met.  Jack was intensely interested in Ennis and he led the way, most of the time in the relationship.  From watching Ennis in the rearview mirror as he shaved when first meeting, to leading the way to the bar to drink beer after they got the jobs, from initiating sex in the tent and encouraging Ennis the next night, then roping Ennis the final day and saying "Time to go, cowboy." and finally sending him the postcard to reunite, Jack knows he wants Ennis and Jack doesn't have a problem with that.  Ennis does.   Jack was true to his feelings for Ennis from beginning to end and if things had been different, in another time and place, Jack probably would have convinced Ennis to live with him.  They might have had a life.

     There was just too much to overcome back in those days and there was also the significant problems that Ennis had personally that were too big for both of them.  It is a sad, but a very true to life story for those days.   In the end though, there was no one and nothing stronger in Ennis' life or Jack's than what they had together and though it wasn’t ideal or easy, it was awesome.

That's my take on it.

Peace,
Rayn
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 10:52:30 am by Rayn »

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2006, 09:37:02 am »
Verr' good posts, Rayn, atz and everybody. Your insight helped me understand a scene that has always puzzled me--when Ennis comes back the next morning to get his toothbrush et. al. to take off camping with Jack, Alma, instead of engaging Ennis in discussion, walks over to the window and looks out at Jack below leaning against his truck. It's like she and Jack are now involved in a kind of tug of war, and she realizes she's losing. Ennis thinks Alma and Jack can coexist in his life, but Jack doesn't.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2006, 12:40:32 pm »
Heya bbm_stitchbuffyfan,
I agree about the dynamics between Ennis/Lureen and Jack/Alma.  The phone scene between Ennis and Lureen is a bit like Alma seeing Jack and Ennis kiss.  It's an equivalent epiphany moment for Lureen (doubly heartbreaking for her, realizing that she's talking to Jack's *true* love on the phone while still being in a state of grief herself.  Whatever the state of her relaionship was with Jack, I'm sure she was grieving for Jack in her own way too).

On Alma's competitiveness...  Clearly she lets loose with this sense of anger and rivalry in the Thanksgiving scene when she tells Ennis what she knows about him and calls Jack "Jack Nasty."  I've always wondered if Ennis's extreme/ violent reaction here has a tiny bit to do with him being upset that Alma insults Jack.  I know the main reason for his anger, definitely is over being 'outed.'  But, still I really do wonder if the 'nasty' insult ruffled his feathers even more.

I certainly think that Alma said "Jack Nasty!" to ruffle his feathers. Obviously what ever it was that made Jack nasty, Ennis was participating. Why was Jack the one that's getting insulted and not Ennis as well? I agree that the particular name calling showed her resentment toward Ennis, but also her competitive resentment toward Jack.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2006, 12:49:29 pm »
You know in the book, Jack was not looking at Alma with any competitiveness; he was really scared when they met, so scared his legs were shaking, but I think he knew Ennis was "his man" too.

hm, that not how I read that part in the book. My interpretation was that Jack was shaking because he was so excited to about that kiss. I didn't read anything about being scared to meet Alma.
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Online serious crayons

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2006, 12:55:11 pm »
You know in the book, Jack was not looking at Alma with any competitiveness; he was really scared when they met, so scared his legs were shaking, but I think he knew Ennis was "his man" too.

hm, that not how I read that part in the book. My interpretation was that Jack was shaking because he was so excited to about that kiss. I didn't read anything about being scared to meet Alma.

Me too. I was just about to say that.


Offline ednbarby

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2006, 02:00:59 pm »
I certainly think that Alma said "Jack Nasty!" to ruffle his feathers. Obviously what ever it was that made Jack nasty, Ennis was participating. Why was Jack the one that's getting insulted and not Ennis as well? I agree that the particular name calling showed her resentment toward Ennis, but also her competitive resentment toward Jack.

Isn't this always the way, though?  When a woman finds out her husband has been cheating with another woman, it's always, "Why, that BITCH!" more than (or even instead of) "That BASTARD!"  Me, I'd be in the latter camp.  To me, the thought of my husband having sex with someone else isn't nearly as unsettling is the thought of him lying to my face.  But with most women, it's about "What has she/he got that I haven't got?"  When you find your husband is cheating with a man, you know what he's got that you haven't. ;)  Honestly, again, it would be the deceit and not the sex that would enrage me the most.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2006, 08:47:50 pm »
Well, an insult to Jack is an insult to Ennis... If nothing else, it reflects back on his own taste, selection of a lover, etc.  And, the word "nasty" can be heard in a pretty homophobic way too.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Jack and Alma
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2006, 03:04:31 pm »
Well, an insult to Jack is an insult to Ennis... If nothing else, it reflects back on his own taste, selection of a lover, etc.  And, the word "nasty" can be heard in a pretty homophobic way too.

Good points.  And I hear "nasty" as being said with a good deal of homophobia, myself.
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