Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Jake In Drag??
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: David925 on January 16, 2007, 04:15:21 am ---Hi Kelda!
You mean like the gay version of President Bush's "Shock and Awe"?? Shock them now so they'll accept us later?
Nope. I'll be happy when everyone (Americans in particular) views the gay community as a normal, functioning, worthwhile group of people.
I see where you are going with this Kelda, but shows like "Will & Grace" are bad... really bad; especially in a country like the United States.
--- End quote ---
I think Kelda might have been thinking it's more like the Civil Rights marches of the 60's. Shock and awe to be sure for middle America. Such things brought the plight of minority people to the limelight. Not every black was a marching activist, not every hispanic was a striking farmworker, but it certainly brought them into the public eye - 'we are here!'. 'Will and Grace' and 'Queer Eye' may be stereotypical, but most stereotypes are based in reality. Wasn't BBM simply showing another facet of the same community? Yes, gay people can be effeminate or whatever, but they can also be so straight acting John Q Public would never guess.
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on January 16, 2007, 09:35:44 am ---I think Kelda might have been thinking it's more like the Civil Rights marches of the 60's. Shock and awe to be sure for middle America. Such things brought the plight of minority people to the limelight. Not every black was a marching activist, not every hispanic was a striking farmworker, but it certainly brought them into the public eye - 'we are here!'. 'Will and Grace' and 'Queer Eye' may be stereotypical, but most stereotypes are based in reality. Wasn't BBM simply showing another facet of the same community? Yes, gay people can be effeminate or whatever, but they can also be so straight acting John Q Public would never guess.
--- End quote ---
The devil is in the details Delalluvia. I think Kelda inadvertently addressed the source of the problem when she asked her question.
Kelda said: "I actually don't mind Will & Grace - its that type of TV you don't have to think about too much."
It's a television show people don't have to think about. See what I mean, Dela? People are getting bombarded with all these "stereotypes on steroids" and yet they don't have to think. Later, after they turn off the TV, they forget about the show but remember the stereotypes. My Mother used to tell me people will believe just about anything if they see it or hear it enough times. We like to think we're not impressionable, but in reality most people are to varying degrees.
I think "Will & Grace" fans can be divided into three camps:
1. Those who watch the show because they find the stereotypes funny and it gives them a golden opportunity to laugh at us.
2. Those who watch it and innocently begin to believe the stereotypes.
3. Those who know better and simply watch the show purely for entertainment.
Unfortunately, I think many people fall into the first group, and to a lesser degree the second group (at least here in the US)
Stereotypes hurt. It doesn't matter if the stereotypes are about African Americans, women, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Native Americans, gays, or any other group of people. They drag people down and offer others even more reasons to continue perpetuating their prejudices.
Kelda:
I was probably somewhere in between you both in my thinking when asking the question.
If I say straight what comes out of my head right now... I just feel if we return to the point before Will & Grace and Queer Eye for The Straight Guy that that would be worse. Like pretending that Gays and Lesbians don't exist - much like when blacks didn't exist in 'tv land'. Or if they did appear, they were only playing the role of servants/slaves - for 'authenticity'.
Am I saying that a stereotype - which can slowly be 'brought round' to a more real character - is better than nothing - I don't know to be honest.
In the UK - I would think that the majority are in the no 2 who watch it and innocently begin to believe the stereotypes. category - moving towards the third Those who know better and simply watch the show purely for entertainment category. Certainly, as a whole, in comparison, the UK is more 'progressive'.
So David - you liked Jake's skit. Am I right in thinking you're fine with the drag bit, but not so fine about the cowboys in the front row?
xx
David In Indy:
Hey Kelda!
Yes, I loved Jake's Jennifer Hudson impersonation! I also appreciated why Jake did it. I think anyone would admit it took a great amount of courage.
The gay cowboys? That was kind of bad, wasn't it? But, we must remember we're talking about SNL, and gay cowboys are to be expected.
Yes, the UK (and Western Europe) are far more progressive than the US. Hopefully someday we'll catch up to you all! :)
mvansand76:
--- Quote from: David925 on January 16, 2007, 04:11:27 pm ---The gay cowboys? That was kind of bad, wasn't it? But, we must remember we're talking about SNL, and gay cowboys are to be expected.
--- End quote ---
They might have been bad, yes, and a cheap laugh really, but I loved the expression on their faces, especially of the cowboy on the left when he said "Nope, just regular cowboys..." Who is that guy, does anybody know?
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