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Did anyone else notice this

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vkm91941:

--- Quote from: starboardlight on April 17, 2006, 03:53:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: atz75 on April 16, 2006, 06:24:04 pm ---But, he makes it even more clear when he tells Jack about not having had the opportunity to lose his virginity yet.
--- End quote ---

i never thought of that. but you're right. especially for a 19 year old male in America, that is just not what you admit to. you make up stories if you have to, but none admits to being a virgin.

--- End quote ---

Yes, that struck me too, even though Ennis was engaged to Alma he was still a virgin...and admitted it.  Yet when they were older they both felt the need to posture about their sexual prowess with each other.  funny that.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: vkm91941 on April 17, 2006, 05:50:31 pm --- Yet when they were older they both felt the need to posture about their sexual prowess with each other.  funny that.

--- End quote ---

I'm not sure I follow this reference. Do you mean in that last scene, when they are talking about Ennis' relationship with Cassie and Jack's supposed affair with a rancher's wife? I read those conversations in a different way: Ennis' remarks about Cassie strike me as simply an honest answer to Jack's question about him marrying; he sounds not like he's posturing but like he's very indifferent and lackadaisical ("says she wants to be a nurse, or sumpn'" in a kind of shrugging, "but who cares" tone). I guess Jack's revelation sounds a bit more like posturing, but mainly it seems like a way to slyly confess his involvement with Randall without upsetting Ennis. In any case, neither seems likely to be particularly impressed by -- or even to care about -- the other's prowess with women.  In other conversations, both also seem blase about their sexual relationships with their wives.

Or am I not getting it? If you mean, literally, "posture about their sexual prowess with each other" as in, actually with each other -- again there seems no need to posture; they already know about that!

henrypie:
Maybe it's only once they've been together that they've found the need/ability to lie to each other.  Ennis admits to being a virgin when he's innocent; after years of lying to protect the relationship, I don't know that he would have told the same truth.  Lying becomes a habit.

Does Ennis ever lie to Jack?

ednbarby:

--- Quote from: henrypie on April 18, 2006, 02:46:17 pm ---Does Ennis ever lie to Jack?

--- End quote ---

Yes.  When Jack says "What about you?" in the motel room and he says, "Me?  I dunno..."  BullSHIT.  He does know.  He has to know.  In the story, though, I'd say that no, Ennis never lies to Jack.

serious crayons:
Well, I'd hesitate to call "Me? I dunno" an out-and-out lie. I wish he would have said something more profound, but it just seems like another example of his verbal reticence. Similarly, I wouldn't think of it as a lie when he tells Jack he's sendin up a prayer of thanks for him forgettin his harmonica. Ennis just can't talk about his feelings.

Jack lies a lot, but his motivation is usually to protect Ennis, so I don't really blame him for it.

In other words, I don't think of either of them as habitually lying to each other, or doing so in any sort of harmful or callous way.

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