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Mandatory Viewing
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: rtprod on April 24, 2006, 03:54:47 pm ---
--- Quote ---And like i say, I don't like Mike Moore as a person. And I know he is a very manipulative film maker.
--- End quote ---
Jumping into the fray on this piece that Sheyne and Del have stirred up.
Where in the world does it say that a documentary filmmaker has to be objective? All film is about manipulating and organizing ideas in a precise fashion to make your point---that goes for narrative or documentary film. Michael Moore is a poweful provocateur, a brilliant satirist and I believe, a deeply feeling person. I don't really care about any of those supposed fact-fudgings that the Right (read: wrong) claims he's done in F-9/11, the guy knows how to make a moving and thoughtful film and the majority of the facts speak for themselves. And as far as the Oscar theatrics go, I'm all for it--when Richard Gere, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and the whole crew can get up there and do the same, I really think Michael Moore, who represents the everyman more than any of them, should be afforded the same luxury--free speech. Bowling for Columbine was a human and compassionate film, to me. Ditto F-9/11. The guys has balls and conviction, and a sense of what is right--at least what is right to me.
I will follow him, and I'd vote for him too.
rt
--- End quote ---
RT, my darling. Have I told you lately that I love you?
rtprod:
--- Quote ---RT, my darling. Have I told you lately that I love you?
--- End quote ---
No matter. I can always hear it one more time.
And I you, Barb. Thanks for always being around.
xo
delalluvia:
Hiya rt
--- Quote ---Where in the world does it say that a documentary filmmaker has to be objective?
--- End quote ---
This was discussed about MM when 'Bowling for Columbine' first came out. The response? Good documentary films/filmmakers are objective.
That leaves the rest and includes MM.
--- Quote ---All film is about manipulating and organizing ideas in a precise fashion to make your point---that goes for narrative or documentary film.
--- End quote ---
Not all of them.
--- Quote ---Michael Moore is a poweful provocateur, a brilliant satirist and I believe, a deeply feeling person.
--- End quote ---
Yes, he is all those things.
--- Quote ---I don't really care about any of those supposed fact-fudgings that the Right (read: wrong) claims he's done in F-9/11
--- End quote ---
Well, I did because I was a liberal defending liberals to my right-wing friends and all they were going on about was MM's "lies and propaganda" in the F 9/11 film. After a while I had to shut up because I didn't have a leg to stand on fact-wise. And neither did MM after the criticism came down on his head. After being touted as a 'documentary filmmaker' he eventually had to come out and say F 9/11 wasn't a 'documentary' but a political film. Had MM been less fast and easy with the facts, perhaps he would have reached the audience that mattered. The 50+% who voted for Dubya.
--- Quote ---the guy knows how to make a moving and thoughtful film and the majority of the facts speak for themselves.
--- End quote ---
Well the facts that mattered spoke poorly in F 9-11 and it made the liberals and MM look bad to right-wingers. Not what we want.
--- Quote ---And as far as the Oscar theatrics go, I'm all for it--when Richard Gere, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and the whole crew can get up there and do the same
--- End quote ---
I'm with whoever wants to speak politically - so long as they WIN an award. Robbins/Sarandon and company - I think it was - were one time presenters at the Oscars and chose the podium to speak out on their own political views. They were soundly lambasted for not 'earning' the right to speak because they hadn't won anything.
Then in other cases, you run into trouble.
Years ago, winner Lynn Redgrave was it? spoke in favor of the Palestinian people when she won her award. A few minutes later, a Jewish/Israeli winner came out and spoke against HER political POV.
[shrugs]
--- Quote ---I really think Michael Moore, who represents the everyman more than any of them, should be afforded the same luxury--free speech.
--- End quote ---
Agree. It's just very controlling of him to try to get the audience to go along with him.
--- Quote ---Bowling for Columbine was a human and compassionate film, to me. Ditto F-9/11. The guys has balls and conviction, and a sense of what is right--at least what is right to me.
--- End quote ---
Definitely disagree with you on both of these. MM made some good points - the open-a-bank-account and win-a-free-gun was sheer genius. The rest of it was very staged - you could really tell - and very manipulative.
JennyC:
Oh, I am loving it.
On F-911, I have to agree with Del here. It’s a very effective movie for the point he wanted to make, but even I, as a liberal, also think that it’s very manipulative and far fetch on some facts he presented.
rt, you need to come back with your rebuttal. ;)
rtprod:
Simply don't agree at all that documentaries are supposed to be objective. It's not PBS. Most doc filmmakers I have met feel the same way.
And yes, ALL film is organized in a way to make a point--that's the point of making a film, whether the point is to be "fair and balanced" or have an agenda. The presence of a director and his particular voice is there in every shot, sound, camera move, blade of grass, color, inflection, edit and credit.
Objectivity in any art is an illusion.
More later.
rt
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