Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
An interesting thread from the main IMDB board . . .
RouxB:
Latjoreme-If you're with me and I'm with youx (funny), then we must be one together! Ennis really didn't care much about Cassie-she pursued him and it was convenient. When he left Jack he was completely f'ed up, lonely and scared and no longer had the emotional energy to deal with her and her expectations. I don't think he was possessive of her or jealous of Carl the nice guy.
Also, I've never understood people thinking Ennis, and Jack, was unaware of his feelings. It's pretty clear to me, at least, that they both knew how they felt about the other and they both knew those feelings were mutual. I have never interpreted the shirt scene as Ennis "realizing" how much Jack loved him-though he might not have put the name to it, he knew what it was. I think it was more realizing the magnitude of his love-and loss.
O0
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on April 23, 2006, 10:34:36 am --- What he realizes by the time Alma visits (before she arrives, I think, but he is reminded of it by their conversation) is not that he loved Jack, but that he should have honored that love and made it his top priority rather than trying to deny and underplay it.
--- End quote ---
Heya Latjoreme,
I forgot to mention before that I think this is an awesome observation.
And, yes, I think this fits nicely with your comment too RouxB. I think the lovely thing about this romance is that their attraction/ love is mutual. The issue of them falling/ being in love is not the real conflict in the movie. The conflict is how they deal with their lives and all the drama that surrounds them because of that love (whether they name it or not).
cheers!
serious crayons:
RouxB, youx and Ix ARE onex! I agree completely with everything you said. And Amanda -- thanks for joining the discussion! -- I agree with everything YOU said, too. (Including the part about the romance-killing line from the story; I'm so glad the movie doesn't play it that way.)
I SO wish the filmmakers had showed what happened between the argument hug and the truck driving away, but like Amanda I think this is another example of their exquisite torture. The "damn you Ennis" I don't mind so much, because I see it as just another way of Jack saying, "I wish I could quit you" -- he's frustrated, Ennis is driving hiim crazy, damn him, but he can't let Ennis go.
What bothers me more is Jack's "I did, ONCE" -- that past tense makes ME feel awful, so I'm sure it couldn't have been pleasant for Ennis to hear. I think, as both of you suggest, that the argument probably leaves Ennis feeling worried and scared. As for Cassie, he just doesn't care enough about her to keep up the charade when he's already distraught and depressed. He has been pretty confident of Jack's love all along, now he realizes it's at risk, is terrified of losing it, but is still paralyzed by his homophobic fears.
Not until the shirt scene does he realize that their love was so great it should have been allowed to outweigh all other concerns. (And Amanda, I also like how mutual their feelings are for each other! Though it seems to defy cinematic convention, which usually calls for uncertainty, in this case their being sure of their own and each other's love somehow makes their relationship more romantic.)
As for the flashback, the circumstances surrounding it are so unbearably sad that, sweet as it is, it is far from my favorite of their love scenes. The contrast between the hopeful promise of their relationship early on and the grim impasse they have reached is just too depressing.
RouxB:
I put the "I wish I could quit you" in the same category as the "damn you Ennis"-frustration. Up until now I have been all about Ennis and the tragedy of him life but I feel that penulum swinging towards Jack. To be so close to what you want most in the world and yet so far. To have the love of the person you want most in the world and yet not be allowed to realize it by that person, oh!
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: RouxB on April 23, 2006, 07:00:43 pm ---I put the "I wish I could quit you" in the same category as the "damn you Ennis"-frustration. Up until now I have been all about Ennis and the tragedy of him life but I feel that penulum swinging towards Jack. To be so close to what you want most in the world and yet so far. To have the love of the person you want most in the world and yet not be allowed to realize it by that person, oh!
--- End quote ---
Oh absolutely. This relationship is filled with unbearable catch-22's and what you mention is definitely one of them. This follows along the lines of the prayer of thanks conversation that sends Jack two different signals and puts the relationship into a nearly impossible dilemma. Ennis says wants the relationship to last as long as possible ("for as long as we can ride it") but insists on keeping Jack away at the same time. Other people have mentioned the idea of the "covert contract" between Ennis and Jack, which in unspoken terms demands complete fidelity (thus the anger over Mexico) but the long distances/ lapses in time make this a difficult expectation. I think their tragedies are about equal, though in different ways. The rules Ennis imposes on the relationship are, in a very messed-up way, just as hard on him I think. As he says in the motel "I'm stuck with what I've got here." His dilemma involves feeling trapped by his own sense of duty, convention, fear and even protection (I do think that he believes he's protecting both himself and Jack by insisting that they conduct their relationship in extreme secrecy).
:-\
Now that I have good old imdb threads on my mind, the "I did once..." issue reminds me of that great thread over there with that title. I remember it was largely about the significance of the use of the past tense here. Smart. I hope it's been archived.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version