Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > All Things Brokeback: Books, Interviews and More
Special BBM issue of 'Film Quarterly'
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 19, 2007, 10:59:12 am ---I've wondered, too, if in trying to understand I was over-thinking or over-analyzing, and if it isn't simply the flip side of the stereotypical straight male fascination with "girl-on-girl action." Haven't wanted to go there, though, because it seemed, well, stereotypical, condescending, and possibly even insulting to women. :-\
--- End quote ---
No, it's a valid question. And if you can't ask it here, where CAN you ask it?
I'm no expert (as Scott might say, this is speculative rather than authoritative :)), but I think they're different, and here's why. The stereotypical straight male fascination with GOG action strikes me as a bit more exploitative. To me, it seems as if the men like the idea of the women putting on a show for their benefit. As far as I can tell, straight men are not as fascinated by watching two lesbians, i.e., women who have no sexual interest in men, as they are by two women -- in many cases, straight women -- who create an implied threesome with the voyeuristic viewer. For instance, those girls who make out in "Girls Gone Gone Wild" videos seem to be straight women who wouldn't ordinarily be making out but who do it for the sake of being filmed for a product that will be marketed to straight men (crass and tasteless straight men, I might add, along with some other adjectives, but that's a different story). And that appears to me to be what straight men find most appealing. (If anyone can correct me on this, feel free -- I've never actually discussed this with any straight man who admits to finding this hot, so these are just assumptions based on cultural observation.)
But women who like slash seem to be fine with the idea that the men are there for each other. Oh, some might fantasize about being there in the tent with Jack and Ennis, for example, but that's not essential to enjoying the scene.
But what they have in common, I think, is an equation that applies to straight people of either gender, which is: Attractive people of opposite sex + sex X 2 = hot.
Does that make sense and sound right?
Jeff Wrangler:
Thank you, Katherine, it makes very good sense and sounds right, too.
I was a bit confused by your equation, but then I assumed that there is an implied "Watching" before "Attractive," and then it made sense. Is that correct?
It would be interesting if others could weigh in on this, though. I suspect, as with so many things in life, there is no one monolithic explanation that covers everyone.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 19, 2007, 11:42:47 am ---I was a bit confused by your equation, but then I assumed that there is an implied "Watching" before "Attractive," and then it made sense. Is that correct?
--- End quote ---
Correct. :)
--- Quote ---It would be interesting if others could weigh in on this, though. I suspect, as with so many things in life, there is no one monolithic explanation that covers everyone.
--- End quote ---
I agree. I'd like to hear directly from the straight women who generally like watching men together (for me, it doesn't extend -- or at least hasn't extended -- much beyond the movie) and the straight men who like watching women together. I know we've got plenty of people around here in the first group, but ... ???
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 19, 2007, 12:15:33 pm ---I agree. I'd like to hear directly from the straight women who generally like watching men together (for me, it doesn't extend -- or at least hasn't extended -- much beyond the movie) and the straight men who like watching women together. I know we've got plenty of people around here in the first group, but ... ???
--- End quote ---
Sure enough! I doubt we have too many of the latter! :laugh:
Tell you what, since I've stuck my neck out so far already, I might as well stick it out farther and admit that I've wondered whether any straight women "identify" with either Ennis or Jack particularly in TS2.
I certainly know the answer to that question for one gay man. ... ::)
moremojo:
For what it's worth, I can weigh in as a gay man who enjoys seeing men and women together (whether it is in the context of a romantic depiction, or a sexually explicit one). Many of my gay male friends cannot relate to this (specifically regarding the issue of heterosexual erotica/pornography), and some have found me eccentric for my appreciation. I should emphasize that it is the presence of the men that invests these depictions with erotic appeal for me, but for the more generally romantic ones, the gender of the participants has no bearing on my positive response. In the same context, I can find scenarios involving only women appealing in this general way, without my response extending into the erotic.
For the record, my favorite gay film (apart from Brokeback Mountain, which transcends categorization anyway), which is also the gayest film I've ever seen (and I do mean that in a positive, non-sarcastic way), is Werner Schroeter's 1972 masterpiece Der Tod der Maria Malibran, which is populated almost wholly with female characters (not all of them played by women).
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