Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Exactly WHEN does Jack decide.. th 1st tent scene..is gonna be th 1s tent scene?
slayers_creek_oth:
--- Quote from: rtprod on April 24, 2006, 02:30:40 pm ---
--- Quote ---I agree completely...Ennis thought of Jack as a--wonderful--friend--and that was IT.
--- End quote ---
I respectfully disagree with this. There are many reasons why, but in my mind Ennis is falling in love with Jack early in the film. The trouble is, he has no frame of reference from which to understand it, categorize what it is or act upon it.
Love is composed of friendship and many other dimensions, so though it is technically correct--that Ennis thought of Jack as a "wonderful friend"--he also thought much more, and Jack just unlocked it at the right time in his life and in the right place. When you think about it, for any love to flower a certain set of circumstances usually has to be in line -- the right time in lives, the right place, the right chemistry and other forces that are beyond what is knowable. Sometimes, however, all of those things can be off and if the participants recognize it, even acknowlege the odd ulikeliness of it that seems to make perfect sense, in the right moment, it can be a beautiful thing. But all the external orchestrating in the world won't make it happen (here on Jack's part, as some have suggested) if it's not inside the other person too.
*said delicately on eggshells*
rt
--- End quote ---
I agree rt.....100%
twistedude:
I said "translation," not "creation." I have a funny feeling that if we all hashed this out, with all of us talking, we would discover that what I mean by friendship," you mean by "love."
Perhaps we all go back, when analysing someone else's feelings, to our own histories. I was read a book at the age ofr 2 about sex and having babies, and the words "
love" and "closeness' were uised...but I remember wondering "why would two grown-ups wasnt to engage in a silly act like that, just to make babies?"
I had crushes on movie stars, and finally on boys, when I was 10-15--but I did not know what sex WAS. My fantasies always ended with a kiss. I recognized a sort of restless longing in me, but I guess I thought there was no answer for it. (I guess i didn't have much of a sex drive because it didn't bother me very much!).
I learned about orgasms--when I had one. So THAT's what it's all about. I was THINKING so much about the damn thing, my boyfriend wasn't eactly sure what had happened to me; I probably looked like I'd gone into a thinking fit.
I have a feeling that Ennis says so little, and expresses so little, that we all write upon him something of our own early experiences with sex.
Still think I'm right, though!
littleguitar:
--- Quote ---When Ennis jerks awake, his first impulse is to go with his 10 years of self-training: denial, anger, pushing Jack away. But then ... he stops. He may be drunk, but his mind is working. Confronted by this powerful attraction, he finally allows himself to consciously acknowledge it. He realizes that he is being offered for something he has always wanted but never in his life expected to have. In that instant, he sets aside everything he has told himself all these years and decides to go for it, to reach out for this one chance. It's a huge turning point for Ennis. That's why I consider this moment (pictured in Julie's jpeg!) perhaps the most powerful five seconds in the movie. He moves toward Jack, grabs onto him and pulls him closer (just as he will do 20 years later by the lake).
--- End quote ---
I agree with a lot of what was said here (not just this quote, the whole thread) but I wanted to put in what I thought as well.
I agree that these 5 seconds are really powerful, but I don't think it is just Ennis that makes the decision to go for it in those 5 seconds. I think that yes, Jack is aware of his feelings and that there has been a slow seduction or build up toward the romance throughout the movie, but I think that night Jack didn't have an agenda. I agree with those who think that the conversation was just flowing easily and naturally and so was the whiskey and what happened afterwards, while fueled by the alcohol, wasn't really Jack scheming to get Ennis drunk so that something would come of it. It seems to me that, in that first tent scene, when Jack reaches over and grabs Ennis's hand, he is doing it in his sleep and when they both jump up he is just as surprised as Ennis. There is a moment, in those 5 seconds, where Jack looks at Ennis and, to me, it seems as if he is making up his mind as to whether or not to go any further. There is a moment of hesitation, then decision, then he reaches down and undoes his pants. As someone else pointed out, Jack took a huge risk in moving on Ennis and though I do think he was sure of his feelings and was going to go through with it no matter what and had wanted it for a long time, I still feel like there was just a slight moment of "oh god, should I really do this?" from Jack in that tent scene.
As for the "you may be a sinner but I ain't yet had the opportunity", Ennis may not have been consciously flirting, but he definitly knew he was saying something cheeky, he has this amazing mischevious, slightly embarrassed look on his face right after he says it that I just love! IMO, he was saying I'm still a virgin but would like that to change real soon...
This is a really great thread by the way! Thanks for starting it!
DeeDee:
I thought along the same lines as littleguitar. I think Jack was just as stunned finding himself holding Ennis' hand by his groin. I also believe Ennis started falling in love as he was opening up to Jack.
Just after Ennis says he hasn't sinned yet, we hear Jack go "mmmm". His wheels were already spinning.
You could also see the confusion on Ennis' face (superbly played by Heath) as he pushes him away, then pulls him in and will absolutely not kiss him.
God I love that whole scene.
ednbarby:
I agree that Jack does not have a (conscious) agenda that night. Just as I didn't have one the night I met my friends in the bar and the object of my affection was there. I don't think I did even as I kept buying drinks - it was more that I liked being with him and wanted to keep him there, and the conversation was flowing freely and easily and we were all laughing our heads off, so why not? But getting him in the Biblical sense was something that was always in the back of my mind. I saw a sudden opportunity, I seized it - almost subconsciously, really - it worked out. Similarly, I don't see Jack actively trying to seduce him that night. I see the whiskey flowing because they were enjoying each other's company. And I see what ultimately happens as just being the natural culmination of a mutual attraction where one person takes a chance that he has reason to believe will turn out well. I guess I've never questioned its authenticity because I've been there.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version