Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
"You don't think so, or you don't think that I'm the one?"
serious crayons:
--- Quote ---I think Alma Jr. and Cassie were speaking in code, as it was and is necessary to do in Wyoming. "He's not the marrying kind" as you pointed out, is code for gay, and "You don't say much, but you get your point across" means "message received." Still, I think Cassie denies the reality due to Ennis's manliness and virility.
--- End quote ---
That's exactly what I was wondering when I asked about this at the beginning of this thread years on years ago. Is that what they were "really" saying? Or is it what we, the audience, are meant to wonder about? Either in an ironic way, because we know it has a double meaning in this case, or in a confused way because we don't know if they actually meant that, or if they were just saying, "He doesn't want to settle down." "OK, I get it."
I think Diana and Larry intended both meanings, deliberately ambiguously. By choosing phrases that fit both a superficial interpretation and the double-meaning interpretation, they were letting us share the feeling that Jack and especially Ennis lived with all the time: What do the people on the pavement suspect? Are the pool hall guys about to jump me? They can never be sure. The movie uses this technique on and off throughout. (Recall that the bartender also uses an ambiguous phrase!)
On another topic, Lee, I'm saddened and surprised to see you put it in present tense (was and is). Granted, I live in a bubble, but from what I've seen I feel like people these days are far less homophobic now than they were even when this thread began. Now that marriage equality is the law of the land, now that lots more movie and TV characters are gay without it being a big deal, they've kind of acquiesced to it. Plus, bigots can turn to another target -- now they can be transphobic!
But I don't live in or near Wyoming, so maybe it hasn't changed as much there.
CellarDweller:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on February 14, 2018, 11:55:11 am ---I think Alma Jr. and Cassie were speaking in code, as it was and is necessary to do in Wyoming. "He's not the marrying kind" as you pointed out, is code for gay, and "You don't say much, but you get your point across" means "message received." Still, I think Cassie denies the reality due to Ennis's manliness and virility.
--- End quote ---
I never thought of if that way. Alma Jr. may have meant her quote as code for gay, but I don't think Cassie took it that way, more as a comment to herself.
Although Cassie wouldn't know this, I was reminded of an earlier comment from the movie, with Alma stating that Ennis should get married again, she "and the girls" were worried about him being alone all the time.
It's possible Cassie took "You're good enough" as, "well, at the very least, you're a warm body for my father."
Sason:
--- Quote from: CellarDweller on February 19, 2018, 10:17:16 am ---It's possible Cassie took "You're good enough" as, "well, at the very least, you're a warm body for my father."
--- End quote ---
I'm not so sure about that. We don't know anything about Ennis' and Cassie's sex life. I feel pretty sure it wasn't very intense, for obvious reasons.
Maybe Cassie was hoping it would be better if Ennis finally saw fit to settle down, part of the reason she was asking Junior that question.
And maybe, just maybe, that't what Ennis meant when he said "I wasn't much fun anyway, was I", in the apple pie scene.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: CellarDweller on February 19, 2018, 10:17:16 am ---It's possible Cassie took "You're good enough" as, "well, at the very least, you're a warm body for my father."
--- End quote ---
I think that's what we're meant to think she meant.
But "you get your point across" is an unusual way to answer that question. Most people would say something like, "I sure hope so" or "I wonder what he's looking for" or "Maybe he has commitment issues" (OK, so maybe that last one would only be people familiar with late-20th century pop psychology.)
"You get your point across" is a slightly weird way to answer. Not so weird that it doesn't make sense at all or seems really out of place. Just a bit weird, because Junior didn't seem to be hinting at any larger point than what she said more or less outright: Maybe he doesn't want to be married, because if he did Cassie would make an acceptable wife.
That's why I think these lines are meant to resonate with viewers. We know the superficial meaning, above. But we also know the ironic subtext, which Cassie probably doesn't know and Junior may, or may not. They were chosen specifically because they allowed both interpretations.
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: serious crayons on February 19, 2018, 10:11:17 am ---I think Diana and Larry intended both meanings, deliberately ambiguously. By choosing phrases that fit both a superficial interpretation and the double-meaning interpretation, they were letting us share the feeling that Jack and especially Ennis lived with all the time: What do the people on the pavement suspect? Are the pool hall guys about to jump me? They can never be sure. The movie uses this technique on and off throughout. (Recall that the bartender also uses an ambiguous phrase!)
--- End quote ---
I'm reading a book of movie critiques by Larry now and reminded of what a brilliant observer of female characters he is. Diana has said that he was the one who fleshed out the female characters, barely mentioned in Proulx's story. He understands the subtle nuances of the female language.
--- Quote from: serious crayons on February 19, 2018, 10:11:17 am ---On another topic, Lee, I'm saddened and surprised to see you put it in present tense (was and is). Granted, I live in a bubble, but from what I've seen I feel like people these days are far less homophobic now than they were even when this thread began. Now that marriage equality is the law of the land, now that lots more movie and TV characters are gay without it being a big deal, they've kind of acquiesced to it. Plus, bigots can turn to another target -- now they can be transphobic!
But I don't live in or near Wyoming, so maybe it hasn't changed as much there.
--- End quote ---
Sadly, it hasn't. Rural homophobia has gotten worse, if anything, what with our president leading by example. >:(
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