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Lawsuit over Brokeback Mountain in class

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opinionista:
Ps. And Daniel has a point.

Kelda:
I remember this debat over in IMDB - should I take my child to see it should I not? And i htink the conclusion was - it depends on your child.

At the end of the day - I saw many an R Rated (or 15 in this country) film before I was that age - 15. But then I was a pretty grown up child.

I think daniel has a valid point here - and I don't see why it shouldn't be shown in school - but perhaps a sign off slip at the beginning of term would be the way forward - ie - your child may be shown the following movies as part of their english class - please let us know if you wish you child to be removed form any of these viewings.

injest:

--- Quote from: Daniel on May 14, 2007, 12:52:58 am ---Hmmm, I guess I just find it strange for the public school system to advocate literature which entails graphic adult sequences (and indeed has no problem doing so) but has immense difficulty with films which demonstrate the same thing visually...

Besides the extraordinary Shakespearean plays, the following books have been required reading for me in middle and high school.

Oedipus Rex Three suicides, self mutilation.
Antigone A number of suicides, mention of rape.
The Sound and the Fury Forbidden sex, contemplation of incest
All the King's Men Filled with adult language, somewhat graphic sex scene
The Iliad Mention and advocacy of homosexual relationship, graphic violence depicted
The Catcher in the Rye I can't remember what all was in this book, but adult language I think is a given.
The Garden of Innocence No, it has nothing to do with innocence.
The Great Gatsby Some depiction of sex, adult language
Metamorphoses Some of the most erotic poetry ever written in the classical age

Without going completely into Shakespeare, but here's a short list.
Julius Caesar Depiction of violence, a number of suicides.
Romeo and Juliet
Hamlet Sexual agression towards women, including one's mother. Violence, a number of suicides.
Twelfth Night Crossdressing, sexual frustration with homoerotic edge.
Macbeth Witchcraft, murder, rather strong language considering when it was written

--- End quote ---

well, for me, the first thing I think is, what you see is much more affecting than what you read. If I write that a man is nude...it creates a much different effect than posting a photograph of him nude. Writing that a person is dead feels much different than showing a corpse.

The concept so many have put forth that "they have already seen all that or heard worse language" is not a valid one to me.

Daniel:
As I have said earlier, I am not defending the instructor. A permission slip at the least perhaps should have been required, even though I didn't have any permission slips for the required reading I mentioned earlier. It was up to the individual student to say "I have a moral problem with this" in order to be excused from the assignments (or given alternative ones).  I guess the point is that I know I personally gave up children's literature by the time I was 9 or 10 and was reading more familiar literature. I remember The Adventures of Tom Sawyer being a favorite of mine at that age, and look what it has gone through in its history.

But I think I will make one last point that I think it is the job of any education system to prepare youth for dealing with the real world and I would much rather have the education system teach adult themes then have younger people stumble on them later on. And then I pause to consider, why were all those books and plays I mentioned earlier required reading? It is obvious they have a great deal to say about the human condition, about social juxtaposition perhaps, or the inevitability of cause and effect. Shakespeare's works in particular seem to indicate that the personal choices we make are part of a much larger, complex reality of moral decisions and their results. Parents seem to try to indoctrinate their children with the idea of simple moral duality, but when we expand our horizons and really see what is out there, we (hopefully) realize that human life is much more complex. The concept of Moral Complexity is perhaps the most important one that an educational facility can teach, and is an important part of any liberal education.

Daniel:

--- Quote from: injest on May 14, 2007, 07:34:34 am ---well, for me, the first thing I think is, what you see is much more affecting than what you read. If I write that a man is nude...it creates a much different effect than posting a photograph of him nude. Writing that a person is dead feels much different than showing a corpse.

The concept so many have put forth that "they have already seen all that or heard worse language" is not a valid one to me.

--- End quote ---

You are quite right about literature being different from a visual display. Children seem to have a canny ability to imagine literary scenes very well, so their imagination fills in the details. Instead of merely registering adult sequences, such literature forces the mental creation of them.  It is because "they have already seen all that or heard worse language" that such imaginations are so effective.  Once again though, this imagination is intellectually and creatively channeled... and perhaps works far better to lead a responsible youth into a mature understanding of adult reality.

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