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Lawsuit over Brokeback Mountain in class

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injest:
I agree that children need to be taught that life is complex and there are bad things out there. But we don't expect first graders to do algebra before learning to add, we teach in stages. First they learn the black and white, then you can begin to fill in the grey areas.

And there will ALWAYS be kids that are behind their agemates and some that are ahead; you can't cover them all in one class. You fed your needs outside of the curriculum and it seems to have been ok.

Daniel:
I suppose what we are disagreeing on is the age at which the demonstrations of adult reality become acceptable in an educational context. I would say that as soon as children are exposed to adult reality by peer conversation the topics need to be covered extensively in a comfortable, educational setting. I really do believe in an intellectual channeling of more crass and conflicted considerations of any number of themes from sexuality to drug use.  I think this is one reason why the DARE program and Lion's Club seemed to work so well when they were used in the public education system, and if I remember correctly, it was at this age when we were first introduced into the programs.

injest:
yes, the age and the depth of the immersion. At that age beginning to talk about more serious, complicated issues is acceptable but BBM is far too complex and graphic for a beginning.

delalluvia:

--- Quote from: Daniel on May 14, 2007, 12:52:58 am ---Hmmm, I guess I just find it strange for the public school system to advocate literature which entails graphic adult sequences (and indeed has no problem doing so) but has immense difficulty with films which demonstrate the same thing visually...

Besides the extraordinary Shakespearean plays, the following books have been required reading for me in middle and high school.

Oedipus Rex Three suicides, self mutilation.
Antigone A number of suicides, mention of rape.
The Sound and the Fury Forbidden sex, contemplation of incest
All the King's Men Filled with adult language, somewhat graphic sex scene
The Iliad Mention and advocacy of homosexual relationship, graphic violence depicted
The Catcher in the Rye I can't remember what all was in this book, but adult language I think is a given.
The Garden of Innocence No, it has nothing to do with innocence.
The Great Gatsby Some depiction of sex, adult language
Metamorphoses Some of the most erotic poetry ever written in the classical age

Without going completely into Shakespeare, but here's a short list.
Julius Caesar Depiction of violence, a number of suicides.
Romeo and Juliet
Hamlet Sexual agression towards women, including one's mother. Violence, a number of suicides.
Twelfth Night Crossdressing, sexual frustration with homoerotic edge.
Macbeth Witchcraft, murder, rather strong language considering when it was written

--- End quote ---

Daniel and Jess both make excellent points.  I agree it seems contradictory to ask your child to read such stories even the Bible when it contains such explicit material yet rant and rave over rated R movies, but just as Jess says, seeing it is more impacting than reading it, but shouldn't that be an important point?  Perhaps if children saw what violence can do to someone, it would make make such violence and hate less a boring read and/or a glorified abstract and more a hard reality (beginning of "Saving Private Ryan" than say any old Schrwarzenegger macho military flick).  Just as an aside, maybe it depends on your public school?  None of these were required reading for my english classes until high school (after age 15).

ednbarby:

--- Quote from: opinionista on May 14, 2007, 05:40:34 am ---I was shocked about the grandparents's decision to sue the school. I mean, I agree no teacher should show an R movie to a 12 years old. But if this was another movie, not about homosexuality, this case wouldn't have gone to court. They would've settled it at the Principal's office. I think they're overreacting because the movie is gay themed. IMO the whole issue is fueled by homophobia. That's what saddens me.

--- End quote ---

Well-said, Natali.  I agree completely.  This is precisely why it saddens me (greatly), too.

And Daniel makes an excellent point.  Here's the thing - by the time I was 12, I had seen (and been subjected to) some things that would make most people's toenails curl.  I'm sure many of us here have, unfortunately.  Zefferelli's R&J was in many ways tame to me by comparison.  Brokeback would have been the same.  And I think it would have given me a deeper understanding of what it's like to be a gay man in many parts of our society at an earlier age.  But I was a pretty introspective kid and mature beyond my years just by necessity.

This girl is not "traumatized" by the violence in the movie.  She's traumatized by the homosexuality/sexuality in general.  If that's really true, she's been living a far too sheltered life and will have a lot of difficulty functioning in society with or without having seen this movie at a young age.  That said, the teacher was out of line.  I still feel for her because I think she meant well.  No, I'm sure she did.  But it's one of those "know your audience" things.  You can think you're enlightening these kids from here to Tuesday.  But anyone who's not capable of hearing the message of this movie is not going to appreciate it in the least little bit - be they 12 or 52.

I swear if an 8th grade teacher showed Zefferelli's R&J today in certain parts of this country, guaranteed there'd be someone publicly bitching about it.  But I doubt they'd sue.  And if they did, as Natali said, it certainly wouldn't make it to court.  This is homophobia and this is the Bush administration.  He has taken us so far backwards, it will take several terms of liberal rule to repair the damage.  And with the Supreme Court stacked Conservative, it may take more than that.  I worry that 2008 isn't going to fix it, either.  We'll end up with McCain who isn't much more reasonable than Bush.  And we'll be at war for freaking ever.  Abroad and amongst ourselves.

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