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Getting hit hard by off-hand expression of contempt

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Mikaela:

--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on May 15, 2007, 10:53:23 am ---
Trying to apply a 1945 wartime trial comment to currrent day society is risky, I think, in terms of true parallels.

--- End quote ---

But the comment wasn't made in 1945, it was made recently. (The program didn't state when all these (by now obviously old) men were interviewed, but certainly gave the impression it happened in connection with making the docu-drama which is dated 2006.) So it was quite apparent the man interviewed had not changed his views over those long years since -45, and felt quite at ease about speaking this way, still.

However what made an equal impression on me was the fact that the program makers let this characteristic be included in the program. I'm sure they could have found other means and other people to describe the nazi in question, or they could at least have edited the statement made. To blithely allow that kind of contempt for gays to shine so clearly through (and thereby tacitly give the appearance of acceptance or indifference concerning this kind of sentiment) was thoroughly disappointing to me. Especially as it was made in relation to the Nürnberg trials when BBC might - and should - have given some though to the fact that gays were among those who suffered and died in the camps.


(As for relating the sentiments to Ennis, that's just my kind of stream-of-consciousness type of viewing a TV program. I still keep relating all sorts of everything back to Brokeback.)

HerrKaiser:
Ah, I see your point, but if you think the producers/editors should have not included the interview, then none of this thread would exist. The man's comment is being positioned here as an indication of a commonly held point of view. If his comments was not known, then would people think there is less of this thinking in the world?

To me this is an issue of 'does a falling tree in the forest make noise if no one is present'. If the sequence was cut, there'd be no issue; I think it may be better to put forth information as unpleasant as anyone may take it in order to know what is going on. I personally find the comment disagreeable, but in the context of things, it falls way down my list of concerns. but, if it was cut from the final edit, no one would know how some people use 'weakling and sissy' as something related to homosexuality (he must not know about Alexander the Great).

but in reality, he must be pushing 90 years old by now, and people of his age are going to make comments, say things, etc, that are from their pasts that do not necessarily reflect their core beliefs or how the mainstream population thinks. Many people of that age group will call women, girls or honey and have less contempt about women than a boss who calls a woman Ms. Smith. They may use many non PC words/phrases just because of their age and I don't think there will be a resulting net negative impact from such.

delalluvia:

--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on May 15, 2007, 10:53:23 am ---
I don't agree with this stereotype. Over 30% of single parent households are headed by a man. the statistics show that most men share child rearing duties with their wives including shopping and inside home care. Like the 3-martini lunch, the stereotype that if men aren't 'quiet, stiff upper lipped, skirt chasers' they are 'suspect' is an out dated concept based on most factors and studies I see in the media and living situation. Trying to apply a 1945 wartime trial comment to currrent day society is risky, I think, in terms of true parallels is risky, imo.

--- End quote ---

I would like to believe the attitude is changing, but I live in Texas, mein Herr.  The stereotype is large and in charge down here and no sign of it going away.  A man friend of mine recently told me that as a woman, what exactly my rights are to my own body is something that needs to be discussed and decided upon (by men).  A younger man I met on a Lord of the Rings film board scoffed when at the end of ROTK, the Aragorn character breaks into song.

He was contemptuous.  As if a warrior king would suddenly sing!  That was obviously an unmanly action.  And these opinions are coming from the current generation as well as the younger generation.

And yes, I've heard anti-gay slams from the teenaged crowd my cousin runs with.

It's sad.

HerrKaiser:
I understand that your personal experiences include some situations that are unforntunate. But, one's few examples of a behavior do not indicate a pattern or ought be expanded to the entire nation or population. The idea that "..one man on the lord of the rings..." and "a man friend of mine..." would be in any way exemplory of most men is the essence of unfair stereotyping, imo.

delalluvia:

--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on May 16, 2007, 10:32:36 am ---I understand that your personal experiences include some situations that are unforntunate. But, one's few examples of a behavior do not indicate a pattern or ought be expanded to the entire nation or population. The idea that "..one man on the lord of the rings..." and "a man friend of mine..." would be in any way exemplory of most men is the essence of unfair stereotyping, imo.



--- End quote ---

True, my evidence is ancedotal.  But then what would you use to prove that things are changing? 

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