BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => All Things Brokeback: Books, Interviews and More => Topic started by: slayers_creek_oth on May 19, 2006, 12:28:52 pm
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Investigation under way in school divided over homosexual issue
An English teacher in Kentucky is under investigation for showing her students a clip of "Brokeback Mountain," the controversial film about a homosexual relationship between two sheepherders.
The brief showing – about two and a half minutes long – took place at Boyd County High School, where tensions have been high since a group of students petitioned to form a homosexual awareness club at the school in 2002, the Associated Press reported.
The school district later settled a lawsuit that resulted in anti-harassment training for all staff and students.
Parent Kelley Smith, whose 17-year-old son was in the senior cinematography class, said it's "really bad time for all this to have happened."
"If she wanted to show it in class she should have gotten parents permission and if some students wanted to see it, it should have been their choice," Smith said.
None of the film's sexual content was shown to students.
Earlier this week, an Alabama teacher who showed 8th grade students a video filmstrip referring to President Bush in vulgar terms was fired by his school board after an investigation found porn on his computer.
Administrators determined that Steve White, also a Democratic candidate for the Alabama House, was showing videos rather than teaching science. The investigation found White showed videos with sex acts, nudity and other obscene images to students.
In Kentucky, Superintendent Howard K. Osborne would not say if action was taken against the teacher, who was not named. But he indicated "Brokeback Mountain," which won an Oscar for best director, will not be shown again at the school.
"We've had an investigative inquiry and we've taken appropriate action," Osborne said.
In March, a high-school student in Oregon produced a film based on "Brokeback Moutain" for a class assignment that included two boys in bed together. He showed his film to his Marine Biology class then was called into a meeting with three vice principals and told he was being transferred to a local community college to finish out his senior year. He later was allowed to return, however.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50272 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50272)
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Just found this news item on Advocate.com:
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid31218.asp (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid31218.asp)
I don't know why I continue to be shocked at the ignorance and bigotry in the U.S......
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Just found this news item on Advocate.com:
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid31218.asp (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid31218.asp)
I don't know why I continue to be shocked at the ignorance and bigotry in the U.S......
ugh! i'm with you. I don't know why it shocked me, either. I really hate people sometimes.
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Why should it be shown to children? The movie is meant for adults only and some portions are very erotic. If grown-up men like me got so disturbed watching this movie then the affect on children might also be profound! After all a school is meant for acquiring an education not for deciding one's sexual preferences!
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Pinku,
If you had actually read the entire whopping 3 paragraphs, it says only 2.5 minutes of the cinematography was shown, for the purposes of the cinematography only.
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That's some kind of educational message to give to young people. I only hope all the kids in that school feel very sure about their own sexuality.
this film should be mandatory viewing in all schools! Because there're some very good lessons to be learned by everyone, straight or gay.
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I agree with you sfericsf... the context in which the school intended to use the short clip of film, there really wasn’t anything to make so much fuss over. The only thing that has upset people is the fact the film is showing two men in love with each other. To most of the world Brokeback Mountain = Gay = Disgusting. I don’t blame people for complaining about it but it asks the question, in a perfect world this film wouldn’t have ever been made, we would all love our fellow man. But if we are going to get even close to that we are going to have to find out what makes people so disgusted with homosexually in today’s world. OK you might think you don’t have to tell kids about sexuality in school, but we are doing something wrong somewhere. Can’t most problems and unwarranted fears can be resolved with education??
Eddy
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Why should it be shown to children? The movie is meant for adults only and some portions are very erotic.
How old are US kids when they start High School? At least 11 or 12, I guess.
Well, in Germany the movie is rated "FSK 12", which means everybody 12 years or older can see it without company of an adult. And I think this is completly right. My niece has just turned 13 this week and I wouldn't have any problem letting her see BBM.
For the eroticism: "...no sexual content was aired" (from article). Not the whole film was shown, only a 2 1/2 minutes long clip without sexual content.
And speaking of sexual content: what do we actually see? - Nearly nothing. Counting naked skin: a very brief look on Jack's bottom in profile, topless men, a short shot of naked men from faaaar away (jumping from a cliff) and 2 times naked female breasts. In many advertisement breaks on TV in Germany you can see as much skin.
Additionally we see a very passionate kiss and some indicated sex.
For European standards nothing that's worth any flurry. And I can't believe that US kids are more behind the times or more damageable than European kids are.
And yes, I think BBM should be shown in schools. The whole movie!
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In another part of Europe, children of 11 years of age could see the film without an adult accompagnying them. And this age limit was explained by the censor board as being due to the level of physical violence in the film, which younger children might find frightening. Teenagers of high school age hence could freely see the film and I can't imagine it being anything than an emotional and thought-provoking experience to them, as to other and older viewers.
But anyway, according to the article: ....at least one parent was upset that any part of the movie would be shown in the classroom.
So what would they have done if at least *two* parents demanded they show the whole film?
In a way, it seems this was a tempest in a tea pot, except for the previous school history that the article also relates, and the fact that the school backed down so quickly instead of supporting their teaching staff's professional decisions and integrity.
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So what the hell DID he show? I posted the ONLY HORSE PHOTO I have (the keepaway with Jack's shirt, with a horse tied in the background (that Aguirre sees--the first part of it, it's taken from) on the Vintage Baaseball card Forum, someone recogised it, and as soon as the "Moderator Dude" (that's what he calls himself), a Texan, saw the post mentioning it, he wrote (AND I quote from memory):
"I am completely neutral as far as fags are concerned, but I don't want to see any pictures of them, or have anyone teach it to my kids."
He modified this, after I told him a few simple things, like that some men over 45 don't like the word at all, and that nobody would teach it to his kids...
MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, and all it's accutrements, SUCKS!
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What about the fact that both the leads puff away to glory and drink like fish! That's ok with adults! But kids mustn't be subjected to such "splendours" so early in life! This movie is very very disturbing and adults like me don't how to deal with it - how can one expect children to do so!
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Jon Stewart said it best a while back. "The real cause of Homophobia is that to most straight guys, they are repulsed by the thought of two guys getting it on. Banning gay marriage is the only way they can fight back. Therefore, since the thought of our parents and grand parents having sex is also repulsive to most people, we should also ban heterosexuals from marrying if they are over 60!" :laugh:
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What about the fact that both the leads puff away to glory and drink like fish! That's ok with adults! But kids mustn't be subjected to such "splendours" so early in life! This movie is very very disturbing and adults like me don't how to deal with it - how can one expect children to do so! Only drug addicts can say such things!
Well, Pinku, I want my nieces and nephew to see it, and I'm no drug addict. I want them to see it so we they can gain some insight about the realities of homophobia and heterocentrism faced by their uncle.
Your absolute horror at the thought of children seeing BBM must be based on the belief that the love between Ennis and Jack was shameful. I am not ashamed of who I am and who I love; instead, I'm horrified by the gay-bashers who killed Jack in the story and Matthew Shepherd in reality. I'm horrified of their violence, hate, and ignorance.
These are the things that horrify me, and I want the children in my life to be horrified by them also. I also want them to see that I am NOT ashamed of the love -- both emotional and physical --between Ennis and Jack.
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I refer to the erotic scenes not particularly scenes between the two men but other scenes like the one in which Lureen's breasts hang over Jake's chest! Do not advocate the fact that I am horrified of the love between the two men. The love between the two is purest form of love even seen on Screen! I don't think you can subject any kid to your choice of movies based on your sexual preferences. Kids should be exempted from being given any direction about a particular field of sexuality and that that they have the right to decide after completing their studies to follow what path they like! Yes, but safe sex can be stressed or usage of condoms albiet without referrering to a heterosexual nomenclature!
Thanks for naming Mathew Shepherd! I was looking for that guy's name and meant to ask someone! Poor dear! Such a nice looking kid too! At least the perpetrators are caught unlike in the case of our Hero Jack! Are gay-beatings common in USA? I am sure no such incidents occur in USA - being such a open/moderate/educated society!
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Well Pinku I am a 50 year old straight woman with 2 sons, 12 and 16. I gave the 16 year old the story to read when he was 14. He and I saw the film together in the theater twice and my 12 year old watched the DVD with me by his side to answer his questions. Children are frequently more in touch with the world than we adults give then credit for.
My sons are blessed to have kindest most gentle man as their Godfather, He loves them unconditionally and they adore him, he is also gay. If a child is old enough to ask the questions then he is old enough to be told the truth. I want my son's to grow up understanding that there are all kinds of love in the world and it is not their place to judge another because of whom and how they love.
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I want to add my sentiments here that I want the children in my life to watch Brokeback Mountain.
These are the reasons that are in my heart:
It is vital to have open dialogue with your kids about sexuality. I want there to never be ANY question that they are loved no matter their sexual orientation. And I want them to understand that there is nothing 'wrong' with any sexual orientation differing from their own. If a movie can serve to easily open this sort of dialogue, then it's 100% appropriate in my book.
The rates of suicide for gay children and teenagers in the U.S. bear out that there must be better communication between children and their parents on this subject. Not one more kid EVER should need to call a suicide-prevention hotline, contemplating ending his/her own life because he/she cannot bear talking to their own parents about their sexuality.
JMO...Lynne
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My sons are blessed to have kindest most gentle man as their Godfather, He loves them unconditionally and they adore him, he is also gay. If a child is old enough to ask the questions then he is old enough to be told the truth. I want my son's to grow up understanding that there are all kinds of love in the world and it is not their place to judge another because of whom and how they love.
Hey Vic & Lynne, I so want to applaud you both for these lovely sentiments. I totally agree with you. To have these issues explained in a loving and honest environment will always be the best way to go. When you think of all the "lessons in life" that we learn in the school yard, which puts most us into therapy for most of our adult lives, how much more love will they have in their lives if they don't have to un-learn the lesson of homophobia? Surely, this is the very reason why the school teacher got into trouble here: because the offended people in question arn't over their homophobia yet?
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Vic,
That's a cute mail! Thank You!
In no way BBM is fit to be shown at schools. It is erotic, disturbing and very very unnerving! Can you dispute these facts? More than eroticism, the subject matter is extremely shocking, as I said before the author gifts to you a sense of total hopelessness in those mere words of hers. Ennis' trailor scene - both in the movie/book - is like watching Dafour (Sudan) unfolding in front of you! An Olympian tradegy!
But as a mother you know the best and what you teach your children is only to be decided by you and nobody else. Thanks, pinku
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Jon Stewart said it best a while back. "The real cause of Homophobia is that to most straight guys, they are repulsed by the thought of two guys getting it on. Banning gay marriage is the only way they can fight back. Therefore, since the thought of our parents and grand parents having sex is also repulsive to most people, we should also ban heterosexuals from marrying if they are over 60!" :laugh:
Good God, I love that man.
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WKYT television reports that no sexual content was aired, but at least one parent was upset that any part of the movie would be shown in the classroom. School superintendent Howard K. Osborne would not say whether any action was being taken against the teacher, but he did confirm that Brokeback Mountain will not be shown again at the school.
"... And then he and that parent and others like him/her ran out back and had a good, old-fashioned book-burning party. Among the titles being heaped onto the bonfire were Huckleberry Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird, and everything ever written by David Sedaris."
::)
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I disagree that teenagers shouldn't be shown things that are disturbing. As an example -- when I was a sophomore in high school (16 years old), my European history class watched a documentary on the Holocaust (called, I think, "Night and Fog"). It was profoundly disturbing -- more than 20 years later, I can still remember an image of hair lying in piles. For some reason, that particular image tore at me and left me crying, even later. But the documentary also made me think, and made me talk to my friends, and made me start to try to understand how human beings could ever behave like that. And I think that was an important thought process to begin -- I think it was more important to begin asking those sorts of questions about the world than it was to be taught various sets of facts or various political points of view. After all, in two more years we would all be old enough to vote. Sixteen is time to begin to think about the world that we would encounter as adults.
Brokeback Mountain is disturbing in exactly the right way for teenagers, I think. It doesn't preach -- it raises questions and leaves them room to think for themselves, and I think that's exactly what teenagers need.
Also -- the Kentucky class mentioned in the article was a "senior cinematography class," which means the students were mostly 17 or 18 years old -- old enough to watch R-rated movies in a theater without the consent of their parents. And two and a half minutes of cinematography without any sexual content -- you know, that probably consisted of mountains, sheep, and music.
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Wouldn't you call Schindler's' list disturbing? I am sure many of you will it call disturbing and poignant. And even though one has read about the holocaust and that it remains to many a horror unparalleled, I still say that there is something in BBM which touches your inner core. After watching BBM you feel like your soul has been through something searing. I mean wild horses won't drag me to read another of AP's strories if the general theme is so depressing! I heard there is a story about a fat girl who talks to tractors! Coming to the subject I still feel the movie shouldn't be shown in schools not at all for its gay ( how I hate the word) content but for reasons I'd stated earlier! It might even give hooligans an excuse to torment pupils with homosexuals leanings! I had a horrid schooling 1) for being fat in India 2) for being dark in Moscow.
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A high school English teacher in Kentucky is catching heat for showing her students 2 1/2 minutes of the movie Brokeback Mountain. The teacher, who was not named, reportedly showed a short clip of the award-winning film in a senior cinematography class at Boyd County High School.
"Senior" in the latter sentence means they were 12th Grade High School Students and they were 17-18 years old.
Since the movie is rated "R" in the USA, 12th grade students can go to a theater by themselves without a parent or guardian to view Brokeback Mountain.
And, what 2 1/2 minutes did they actually see?
In some locations in the USA, Junior High is 7-9 grades and Senior High (Sophomores, Juniors Seniors) is 10-12 grades. In our local city library, 7th graders can check out books like Brokeback Mountain and since library patrons can do self-checkout these days, no one working in the library even knows what books they take do read.
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That's OK then, a 17 year old kid is big enough!
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While it may not be appropriate for the entire film to be shown in public school, 2 1/2 minutes of non-sexual content shouldn't be a big deal. It's a cinematography class after all. And, let's face it, by the time they're seniors (and in most cases MUCH younger) it's too late to pretend kids don't KNOW everything some of the public feels they shouldn't. It could be compared to my attitude about myself: I'm much older than I try not to look.
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Oh, I forgot to mention that DVDs, no matter what the rating, can be checked out by those who are not considered "children" at the local library. That means they can check out Brokeback Mountain, too.
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What about the fact that both the leads puff away to glory and drink like fish! That's ok with adults! But kids mustn't be subjected to such "splendours" so early in life! This movie is very very disturbing and adults like me don't how to deal with it - how can one expect children to do so!
hm, there's sex, murder, and drunkenness in Shakespeare too, but no one complain about teaching those work to even our elementary school students, let alone high schoolers. the uproar is all about sexuality, so let's not even pretend.
no one is saying let show the film and teach kids that drinking and smoking is great, and that the men are saints. it's a thought provoking film, and that's why it's important. Teenagers should see it and have the opportunity to discuss the issues.
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Posted by: starboardlight
hm, there's sex, murder, and drunkenness in Shakespeare too, but no one complain about teaching those work to even our elementary school students, let alone high schoolers. the uproar is all about sexuality
So does the Bible!
Next someone might suggest that students should write dissertations on books authored by Nancy Friday!
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Posted by: starboardlight
So does the Bible!
Next someone might suggest that students should write dissertations on books authored by Nancy Friday!
no idea who Nancy Friday is, so I won't be the one to suggest it. ;D
but Brokeback Mountain is a significant piece of art. Even leaving aside the social/political issues, on a literary level, it's a great piece of work to deconstruct. If it wasn't for the controversy, I would consider it being taught in high school for analysis of symbolism, metaphors, story structure, character development, and so on. I think it's definitely right to be taught in cinematography class. As has been discussed, the cinematography used in the film more than captures events but is used to actually comment on characters' emotional and psychological state. It's definitely brilliant work.
I do want to go back to the idea of "mandatory" for high school. I think unless you have teachers who can effectively lead discussions. In my mind, I can see it going really badly if it were my high school, where students will made rude comments and not allow others to take it seriously. I would love it if every teenagers saw this film, but they do need to see it and discuss it with older adults. The examples that the parenting members have have given of their experience with their children is exactly how teens should see this film, rather than in schools.
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Vic,
That's a cute mail! Thank You!
In no way BBM is fit to be shown at schools. It is erotic, disturbing and very very unnerving! Can you dispute these facts? More than eroticism, the subject matter is extremely shocking, as I said before the author gifts to you a sense of total hopelessness in those mere words of hers. Ennis' trailor scene - both in the movie/book - is like watching Dafour (Sudan) unfolding in front of you! An Olympian tradegy!
But as a mother you know the best and what you teach your children is only to be decided by you and nobody else. Thanks, pinku
Pinku the evening news casts are often erotic, or disturbing and EXTREMELY unnerving and shocking...if you allowed it to, the state of world could convey a sense of total hopelessness to you. We are all living an Olympian tragedy everyday! If parents shield and protect their children from the everyday realities of life then they are VERY POOR PARENTS. My job as a mother is to love and nurture my children into adulthood. One of the biggest and most crucial aspects of that job is to COMPLETELY prepare them to live in the very real world outside so that when they venture out to begin their own lives they are not unprepared, shocked, dismayed or victimised by it. But instead are ready to meet the challenges of living in this world head on secure in themselves and their place with a balanced view point, optimism, compassion and integrity.
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Nancy Friday? She writes books about sexual experiences.
Back when I was in high school, some high school students were reading the J.D. Salinger novel, The Catcher in the Rye.
Several years later, I found out that some blue noses were telling church folks to write their local school systems and tell them not to use the book in high school English classes.
It was interesting to know a woman who wrote her local school board to complain about the book when her son was a senior in high school in 1968 and she had not even seen the book, let alone even knew that it existed before.
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Vic - Absolutely, I concur with your views! Though watching BBM will be like a shock treatment! I barely survived and I am 34!
starboardlight: But do you really think that BBM will be shown in schools, fully or otherwise? By the way what's happened to the teacher in question?
PS: I bet the marriage between Ledger and that Michelle girl will not last long. She is not at all beautiful! And he had had affairs with lots of beautiful women. I think he married her because of rumours floating around the sets about him and Jake, that their reel screen chemistry was almost too REAL! I loved this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gay_actors
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Vic - Absolutely, I concur with your views! Though watching BBM will be like a shock treatment! I barely survived and I am 34!
starboardlight: But do you really think that BBM will be shown in schools, fully or otherwise? By the way what's happened to the teacher in question?
PS: I bet the marriage between Ledger and that Michelle girl will not last long. She is not at all beautiful! And he had had affairs with lots of beautiful women. I think he married her because of rumours floating around the sets about him and Jake, that their reel screen chemistry was almost too REAL! I loved this page
i really don't think it'll be shown fully in schools any time soon. just the mentioning of the title alone is controversial, let alone the subject matter. if I were a teacher I'd worry about how to deal with the less mature students who will make remarks and ruin the film for other students who want to take it seriously. I think, perhaps in Advanced Placement literature class, where all the students are serious, a teacher might consider it.
As for their marriage. Who knows how long it'll last. The couple of times that I've seen them together in person, Heath was really doting on her. Beyond that, the subtle way they interact, just in terms of the way they touch, or the way they look at each others, reveals either they are really really good at this cover, or that they really adore one another. They also seem to have been around each other long enough to complete one another's sentences. People don't get like that based on a "cover", do they? She is quite stunning, in person by the way. Beautiful delicate features and a mysterious reserve to the way she holds herself. I can see why any guy would be in love with her.
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PS: I bet the marriage between Ledger and that Michelle girl will not last long. She is not at all beautiful! And he had had affairs with lots of beautiful women. I think he married her because of rumours floating around the sets about him and Jake, that their reel screen chemistry was almost too REAL! I loved this page
Oh I 'm, afraid we'll have to agree to disagree here I think she is a lovely young woman and in many discrete photos he is clearly besotted with her. Many a jaded columnist commented on that fact at the Oscar Ceremony as evidence by these Photos. I believe him when he says he is awed by his new daughter and falls more in love with Michelle everyday. It doesn't matter that no one else sees what he sees in her..What matters is that HE see it and it works for HIM.
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h153/vkm91941/michelle-williams-heath-ledger-osca.jpg)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h153/vkm91941/e55fcde8.jpg)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h153/vkm91941/heathbesotted.jpg)
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She is looking stunning! Nice figure too! Let's see how long the marriage lasts!