That face-touch of Jack's is after Ennis tells him about seeing Earl's body. If that's the one you mean. The ear-grab, kinda?
I love that.
My all-time favorite subtle detail may be the bird flying over when Ennis nervously watches the white truck drive past when Jack has come up unannounced after Ennis's divorce.
Jack's body-draping at the very start.. I cannot watch it without a slight moan of desire escaping my lips. Every time.
I also love the profile shot of Jake just before the "nobody's business but ours" line. You can see every emotion fleet over his face then.. he's already in love and he's just scared to death that it was just a one-time thing for Ennis, especially after the "one shot" line. He's debating how to keep the door open, so to speak and you can see the vulnerability again.. just amazing acting on Jake's part...
There's another detail, in which Ennis does not what I expect him to too: it's the scene when he gets the first postcard from Jack. He washes his hands, picks the postcard and reads it. Then heads for the next room and we see him from behind. He puts his left hand to his back in a well-known manner. I always think he will tuck the shirt in (I love this mannerism). But no, he just wipes his hand at his shirt (cause he didn't use a towel after washing them). Always makes me laugh, because this time he does not tuck in the shirt.
Another detail from that scene (tho not lovable) is that after Ennis and Jack embrace, Jack brings his hand to Ennis neck as if he's going to pull him in for a kiss, but Ennis roughly knocks his hand away. You have to look quickly to see it, it just registered subconsciously for me the first dozen ::) times I saw the film. But now, I see it and, Mr. Bill-like, I say, "oh no!"
I have something shameful to admit. I see you guys saying you watched the DVD last night and all this good stuff. I've only watched it 1 and 1/2 times since I've had it. :(
And the weird thing is, in the trailer he DOES tuck in his shirt! So why doesn't he in the movie? Maybe they (Ang, Heath, etc.) thought there were already too many shirt tuckings. Or ...
Is it just me, but -- let's see, how to put this delicately? I guess it's impossible -- does Ennis bolting from the room at just that moment, perhaps in combination with that hand gesture, somehow bring to mind the line from the story about how he wrang it out a hundred times thinking about Jack? I mean, Movie Ennis would never actually SAY that, but I'm sure that in fact it must have happened. And he's certainly thinking about Jack then. Maybe this is their subtle indirect tactful way of alluding to that.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But then, everything in this movie means something ...
The Elks is an extremely conservative men's organzation--and that's what it means to me.
in tent scene 2, the little kiss that Ennis plants on Jack's chest.
The Elks is an extremely conservative men's organzation--and that's what it means to me.I love that Ennis allows himself to touch Jack directly following his little display of prowess in securing an elk/ food for Jack. Jack tending to Ennis's wound following the bear was Jack's first attempt at physical contact. And the elk "mini tussle" is Ennis's first. Also, in the last argument scene between Jack and Ennis, when Ennis is trying to get Jack to warm up to the idea of November he specifically mentions elk to try to appease him.
I've said it before, but it's worth repeating, in the movie elk seems to = aphrodisiac.
It's very, well, touching.
The Elks is an extremely conservative men's organzation--and that's what it means to me.I love that Ennis allows himself to touch Jack directly following his little display of prowess in securing an elk/ food for Jack. Jack tending to Ennis's wound following the bear was Jack's first attempt at physical contact. And the elk "mini tussle" is Ennis's first. Also, in the last argument scene between Jack and Ennis, when Ennis is trying to get Jack to warm up to the idea of November he specifically mentions elk to try to appease him.
I've said it before, but it's worth repeating, in the movie elk seems to = aphrodisiac.
Say it as many times as you like, Amanda, it's a really amazing concept.
Also, I like the way you describe the touching scenes above. I really love that one after the elk gets shot. Jack praises Ennis and Ennis tries not to show it but you can tell he's pleased. Jack pushes him over in a way that just seems spontaneous and natural for Jack. Then you see Ennis go through that tiny moment of hesitation. It's like he quickly calculates and decides, yeah, I can do it, it's OK in this situation -- and when he gives that push you can tell how much he really wants just to touch Jack. And of course he combines it with a teasing insult, just so nobody gets the wrong idea ...
It's very, well, touching.
I BELIEVE--pLease, someone watch it closely for me..sniff..that after the two pushes, and after Jacjk say 'don't wan't the Game and Fish catch us with no elk," there's another little bit of touching on both their parts as they staNd up--a SORT OF HOT DOG! WE GOT MEAT, YEAH! lET'S GET GOIN" TOUCH...
I'm svaing DVD #7 and #8 till my Toshiba gets home..made a pilgrimage to Target...it can't get any worse, so maybe it'll get better...oh: one's the widescreen, and one's the fullscreen...
You're right...just saw it.
-On a completely different note... I love that Jack unfastens his belt with one hand in the first tent scene. And yes, this makes it pretty clear that he's a lefty.
:D
I like to think that bird cry in the canyon was that of an eagle. It's certainly a bird of prey of some kind.
-I love that Ennis's excuse to Alma for wanting to stay out all night with Jack is that they might talk all night. Has Ennis ever talked all night with anyone? Would he be capable of that amount of conversation? It's still very cute.
-I love that Ennis's excuse to Alma for wanting to stay out all night with Jack is that they might talk all night. Has Ennis ever talked all night with anyone? Would he be capable of that amount of conversation?Hey Amanda,
I love this thread....-I love that Ennis's excuse to Alma for wanting to stay out all night with Jack is that they might talk all night. Has Ennis ever talked all night with anyone? Would he be capable of that amount of conversation?Hey Amanda,
There was a great thread on TOB (and yeah, it's gone now) called "Ennis speaks a truth greater than he knows"...and he's doing that here.
While we all know what kind of communicatin is on Ennis' mind (and the rest of him) at that moment you describe, Jack is the one person in the world that Ennis has, and would, talk with all night, and that's another of the reasons they love each other.
-On a completely different note... I love that Jack unfastens his belt with one hand in the first tent scene. And yes, this makes it pretty clear that he's a lefty.
:D
Thank you for that detail. On some other thread, a long time ago, I suggested that Jake/Jack was left-handed, based on his can-opening method, and turkey carving way. On further viewing I had second thoughts and felt a fool for having metioned it (I think it's on one of the I love everything threads in the archives). Anyways, thanks for that additional observation - (You gotta admit, he's opening the can o'beans in a rather weird way!)
Brassed Off! There's a movie I haven't thought about in a long time. I loved it when I first saw it.
Speaking of Ewan, I saw a movie of his this weekend called Stay. Not so good.
I love how it's almost at a fever pitch outside when Ennis is sitting on his bed in his undershirt with his eyes closed while Alma hugs him from behind, trying with all his might to pretend she is him. Same as when he's in his trailer at the very end, and the wind is just whipping up a frenzy outside.
I love this thread....-I love that Ennis's excuse to Alma for wanting to stay out all night with Jack is that they might talk all night. Has Ennis ever talked all night with anyone? Would he be capable of that amount of conversation?Hey Amanda,
There was a great thread on TOB (and of course, it's gone now) called "Ennis speaks a truth greater than he knows"...and he's doing that here.
While we all know what kind of communicatin is on Ennis' mind (and the rest of him) at that moment you describe, Jack is the one person that Ennis has in his life who he would (and has before) talk with all night, and that's another of the reasons they love each other.
OK, has it ever taken anyone only 3 hours to cook Thanksgiving dinner? The turkey would be severely undercooked.
My all-time favorite subtle detail may be the bird flying over when Ennis nervously watches the white truck drive past when Jack has come up unannounced after Ennis's divorce.
Amanda, I just wanted to mention that I love the Jack=wind metaphor, too. I've made a study of it, and I find that every time he is either in a scene or it's clear Ennis is thinking about him, we hear the wind howling in the background (and sometimes in the foreground). I love how it's almost at a fever pitch outside when Ennis is sitting on his bed in his undershirt with his eyes closed while Alma hugs him from behind, trying with all his might to pretend she is him. Same as when he's in his trailer at the very end, and the wind is just whipping up a frenzy outside.
I also *love* that Aguirre says when Jack returns the next summer looking for Ennis: "Well. Look what the wind blew in." Not look what the cat dragged in which is of course the most common way of saying the same thing, but what the wind blew in.
I should probably post this next bit in the most irrational reactions thread, but it follows here. The wind down here in South Florida has been howling every day for months. It's eerie and giving me a bad feeling about the upcoming hurricane season. March is usually very blowy down here, but February and April aren't so much. When it started up in February after I'd seen the movie a few times and discovered the wind metaphor, I walked outside one morning to get the paper, and it was whipping things up in such a Jack-like way, I just had to say out loud, "Hiya, Jack."I'm not suffering from insanity - I'm quite enjoying it, actually.
And, now I have a question about a subtle detail. Why does Alma go and get her purse after she sees Ennis and Jack kiss? In her state of shock she goes and deliberately packs up her purse and has it ready. Does she really even want to go out with them after wha she's seen? Does she still think that dinner at the Knife and Fork is still an option? Somehow I find this gesture of hers particularly heartbreaking in contrast to the pure joy going on between our boys.
Does everything have to have a meaning?
-here's a new detail (thinking of early moments of physical contact)- as they're setting up their second camp we see a long shot of Jack picking up that drift-wood log from the stream near the bridge and hauls it up on his shoulder. Ennis comes over to him and seems to touch Jack on his shoulder or arm. An interesting moment where Ennis is initiating a bit of intimacy. A display of just how comfortable and friendly he's feeling towards Jack. It's funny that he doesn't seem to be coming to help carry the log... just to touch Jack.
chefjudy--well, I had to do the washing up as well...the entire Thanksgiving day is one long cook and gorge...I don't do it anymore...I'm 71 today, and I've had ENOUGH THANKSGIVING to last a lifetime or two...at first, I hardly looked at the Thanksgiving scenes in Brokeback, till I started noticing interestiong little things that had nothing to do with Thanksgiving.
Are there 3 full moons in the movie..,or 4?
there were 3 full moons.
there were 3 full moons.
Three? Lets see... We see Ennis's moon when he's washing up.
Then Jacks moon when he's washing their clothes by the stream.
Oh yeah! two more moons when they are skinny dipping!
You are wrong. That is four! ;D
I don't know if this has already been discussed but.....
I part when just before Ennis leaves the Twist house John Twist says 'tell you what...we got a family plot and he's goin in it'....Mrs. Twist grabs her neck/collarbone and sort of rubs it...it is almost as if his (John Twist) words are chokin her....you know what I mean?
Just a little detail that I've always noticed...
there were 3 full moons.
Three? Lets see... We see Ennis's moon when he's washing up.
Then Jacks moon when he's washing their clothes by the stream.
Oh yeah! two more moons when they are skinny dipping!
You are wrong. That is four! ;D
Lovely lovely post, Barb. Howdy by the way. Your necklace should arrive in a couple of days. So, yes, I need to look for the wind blowing more in that Alma/Ennis scene in the bedroom; it's been mentioned before by EnnisLovesJack I think. And I love that you said 'Hiya, Jack' to the wind! *wimpers from the bittersweetness*. The whole "Love is a Force of Nature" thing just has so many layers. It's truely astounding how gorgeous that metaphor is.
And here's my favorite un-talked about moment (at least to my knowledge--hope I'm not repeating someone else's thoughts): I always LOVE LOVE LOVE the shot of Jack looking for the blue parka in the closet, standing with his weight on one leg like that, cute butt, purple shirt, kinda annoyed in this adorable way b/c he's wantin a redline it but can't leave yet.
I love Jake's butt in that scene! not such a subtle detail, but very lovable!
Mrs. Twist knew those shirts were there. Thats why you see her smile when Ennis comes back down to the kitchen. She wanted him to find the shirts.
Yeah I agree.....I think thats the main reason she wanted him to go up there....to find the shirts...
I love to see the fire flames in the back, between Ennis and Jack in the 2nd tent scene. It's like there to keep them warm in this wonderfully gentle scene.
I don't think Mrs. Twist's looking in her dead son's closet need be considered a sign of distrust. Nor can I imagine that she wouldn't know the shirts were in there. Most parents whose child has died would head into their bedroom at some point and look at all their things.
The old man said, "Tell you what, I know where Brokeback Mountain is. He thought he was too goddamn special to be buried in the family plot." Jack's mother ignored this, said, "He used a come home every year, even after he was married and down in Texas, and help his daddy on the ranch for a week fix the gates and mow and all. I kept his room like it was when he was a boy and I think he appreciated that. You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."
she just acts satisfied that it has turned out the way whe hoped it would...that sack now held the only worldly posessons that meant anything at all to him....his only tangeable link to Jack...
Also, it's a testament to her sensitivity that she knew right away not to wash the shirts or put them on two separate hangers (as some good moms might do), that she somehow grasped the significance of the symbolism, and put two and two together when Ennis showed up.
Course, she'd had a few other clues over the years, such as Jack's talk of bringing Ennis Del Mar up to the ranch. And maybe she recognized that one of the shirts wasn't Jack's.
But still. Not all mothers would think through everything that carefully. So I do think she meant him to find them.
Then he asks Jack, "The army didn't get ya?" using the exact words that Jack had used when they left Signal. Suggesting that Ennis has gone over and over that sad conversation in his mind -- and perhaps worrying about the prospect of Jack's getting drafted -- for four years.
I also love the scene where Jack is picking something out of the hoof of a lamb that's lounging on his lap. I love how relaxed that sheep looks. I also love that Ennis is just sitting their smoking.I like this little moment too, Amanda, and like how you articulate how Ennis may already be growing more protective of Jack, even at this early stage. I like the confidence that Jack exudes here in performing his task, and the respect and casual interest with which Ennis regards the scene.
This just feeds into my whole thing about Jack being equated with the lambs and the idea that Ennis feels such a deep sense of duty to protect them and look after them. Awww....
Here's another little thought that I just had yesterday, for the first time. This can only remain speculation, of course, but I wondered if Ennis's initial complaint about the harmonica (more specifically, Jack playing the harmonica) might have hidden his longing to have Jack engage him in conversation. He's trying to engage Jack's attention when commenting on the tent, and Jack does interrupt his playing to respond to Ennis. Just a thought.
About the lambs and Ennis's sense of being protective... I think this is one detail in Proulx's story that seems important (and it comes through in the film in varying ways) that Ennis seems to have felt very guilty that he wasn't there to help/ protect Jack at the time of his death. Clearly Ennis is convinced that Jack was murdered... so on one hand Ennis feels guilty that he wasn't there to protect Jack from becoming a victim of "predator loss" ... and on the other hand if Jack died due to the accident (drowning in his own blood) Ennis is mad and feels guilty that no one (not even Ennis himself) was there to roll Jack over to save him. This is quite explicit in the phone call episode with Lureen in Proulx's story.
The lamb on the mountain top died when Ennis wasn't there looking after it... just like Jack died when Ennis wasn't around to help out.
OK... a new detail... I love how Ennis sneaks a mischievous glance at Jack out of the corner of his eyes as he's sipping from his cup in the "my dad thought rodeo cowboys was all f*** ups" conversation. You can tell he's trying to push Jack's buttons or see how far he can tease him... A cute and early playful moment out of Ennis.
Adorable.
:D
I may have posted this already, but the one thing I noticed and loved from the first viewing, is the slight head lift Jack does when Ennis lays down next to him in the first tent scene.
I could actually hear the wheels in his head turning.
You mean when Jack lifts his head and looks back slightly at Ennis with his eyes? That what your talkin about?
If so I've always noticed that too.....
anyone have a the screen cap right before this?
Nope can't say as I have.......it almost looks as if Ennis is holdin Jack.....
This one?
Again, when John Twist mentions Jack's plans to ranch with Ennis, he reacts with -- well, it can hardly be called a smile, more like his face slightly brightens, but you can see that he finds knowing that comforting. And of course his face darkens a second later, when he hears about Randall, but again, just slightly -- plus the flared nostrils -- yet we see how devastating that news is.
And the range of expressions he goes through after hearing Alma Jr. say her fiance loves her -- well, that's my OTHER favorite two seconds of the movie.
Anyway, in reference to the quote above... yes it is absolutely wonderful to see that almost smile out of Ennis when John Twist lets him know all about Jack's plans to bring Ennis to the ranch and run it. I think this moment is a revelation to Ennis. It probably never occurred to him that Jack's plans were concrete... that there was an actual ranch available to them to have... that Jack had been confident enough about this idea to tell his parents. Ennis had never been able to imagine/ visualize what a life with Jack would look like in the real world. And now, John Twist makes it crystal clear to him. Jack's plan might have worked... and could have been real- not just a fantasy. But, the most heartbreaking thing about Ennis's *almost* smile is that it is tinged with guilt. He knows he was responsible for dashing that dream of Jack's. How awful to know that you're the one who truly loved Jack and are also just one of those people who prevented Jack's "ideas from coming to pass." I don't think I'm being too harsh on Ennis here. It's just part of the grim reality of the way the story ends I think.
but Heath was so robbed of that Oscar
Ennis' expressions emotions are SO powerful, yet the constraints are SO strong that he is hardly able to reveal any emotion at all. That happens throughout the movie with both Ennis and Jack, but the conflict between emotion and restraint is particularly strong in the Twist ranch scene. We see what Ennis is going through, as does Mrs. Twist, yet John Twist hardly notices. It's amazing to see an actor 1) pretending not to show any emotion, yet somehow 2) actually showing huge depths of emotion and yet all the while 3) never going over the top or seeming the least bit maudlin or false.
I've said it a million times, but Heath was so robbed of that Oscar.
On one of the great old threads about Jack's Mom on imdb someone once noted that part of the reason she might have invited Ennis to go to Jack's room right when she did was because she probably realized that he needed to cry and would probably want privacy (in addition to Mrs. Twist wanting Ennis to find the shirts and to realize that the "other fellow" was really insignificant to Jack compared to him).
BBM was robbed of the other 5 Oscars it didn't win. But, Citizen Kane didn't win best picture either (like our Brokeback, it won best screenplay! ... But it was original screenplay in the case of Kane.). Classics are not determined by the Oscars. I wish that my copy of the BBM DVD didn't have that "3 Oscars" border on it. It should say winner of 64 major film awards and nominated for 51 more (the 64 and 51 include the Oscars). That seems much more impressive and in many ways things like the Golden Lion in Venice means more to hardcore film people anyway. That really is a shockingly huge number of awards.
But, once Jack rolls over on top of him and really starts to kiss him... Ennis's face just looks so different. Soooo much more relaxed.
I really hate how it cuts away right then. (Ang has said in interviews, I think, that the scene was trimmed way down from what they actually filmed -- we can only hope that more will surface in a special edition DVD or director's cut!)
By the way, I seem to recall Ennis being quite active in the first tent scene... if not as sweet or intimate as he is in the second tent scene.
;) :-*
And, I love how he seems to have adopted the "knock the cowboy hat off" move as a part of his foreplay ritual already by that scene.
Amanda, I wanted to respond to this post you wrote on the I Love Ennis thread, but Roland runs a tight ship over there
I, too, noticed that Ennis does the "knock the hat off" move. And then I noticed that when Jack and Lureen are in the back of L.D.'s car, Lureen pointedly removes Jack's hat. I think this action subconsciously appeals to Jack for this very reason! "Fast or slow, I just like the way you take my cowboy hat off!"
By the way... are we supposed to think that the Happy Tussle scene is the morning after the 2nd tent scene? Or is it later in the summer? Proulx makes it pretty clear that they were making out all the time, all over the place on the mountain after that first tent encounter. But, is this clear to a movie viewer who might not have read the story?
Amanda, I wanted to respond to this post you wrote on the I Love Ennis thread, but Roland runs a tight ship over there -- you're not allowed to post unless it adds to the thread -- so I brought it over here. I, too, noticed that Ennis does the "knock the hat off" move...Maybe I should ask Phillip to move THIS thread to the I Love Everything ... Brokeback forum ;) get some tightness onto this little ship o' yours :laugh: - just kidding!
So you both think I should lighter up hunh?!?!
they were doing it anywhere - anytime - sheep be damned,
what song is playing on the radio when she drives up?
LOL. This is a good question. I've always wondered this. It is the '80s, after all, by this point in the film.
OK, so here's a new detail that I'm just in love with. In the morning after the first tent scene, it's bright morning, we see our boys (with their heads pointing towards the right edge of the screen) with Jack facing out towards the viewer on his side while we catch a glimpse of Ennis's face over Jack's neck as Ennis lies on his back. Then, many scenes later, after Ennis and Alma have their confrontation in bed (the "no protection" moment) we see the exact opposite composition in the frame. Alma turns the light out and it's dark, their heads are pointing towards the left edge of the frame and Alma is facing out towards the audience on her side while we see a glimpse of Ennis's face over her neck as lies on his back.
Interesting details Anke!I totally agree David
But I think that Ennis would have stuck to the dominant role. Just because Jack rolls over on top of him doesn't mean he was going to let Jack mount him. He was I think rolling over and letting Jack know that he was ready for love and attention. An important detail indeed.
But in my mind, with all of Ennis's hang ups about being thought of as Gay or Queer, he would never allow a guy to do that to him. Jack however, we see that in the first tent scene he is very ready and willing to let Ennis take charge.
Just liked the thought that Ennis' surrender was total...Oh most definately. Ennis was surrendering himself to Jack, but on an level of trust and physical need. I think Ennis felt bad that he ignored Jack all that day while he sorted out what had happened the night before. He came into the tent almost apologetic.
Oh most definately. Ennis was surrendering himself to Jack, but on an level of trust and physical need.
This scene is really amazing. Speaking of surrender: the way Ennis lies there when Jack rolls on top of him, on his back, offering himself... isn't that exactly the gesture of subservience a dog would make?? :)
Anke!!! Do you ever think of yourself as a dog when you do that? :laugh:
isn't that exactly the gesture of subservience a dog would make?? :)
By the way... are we supposed to think that the Happy Tussle scene is the morning after the 2nd tent scene? Or is it later in the summer? Proulx makes it pretty clear that they were making out all the time, all over the place on the mountain after that first tent encounter. But, is this clear to a movie viewer who might not have read the story?
Precisely, Amanda! I also love the fact that in the second tent scene Jack's and Ennis' heads point to the left edge of the screen. Everything seems to have changed since their first vigorous love making: instead of it being friggin' cold the camp fire is burning brightly and Jack takes his shirt off. He doesn't have to order Ennis into the tent. Ennis comes all by himself. Their heads are where there feet had been the other night and Jack gets on top of Ennis. Actually, I believe the thing with their heads pointing to the other direction suggests that they didn't have a strict distribution of roles as "top" and "bottom" but occasionally switched jobs... This can't be coincidence! Above all, of course, there is the incredible tenderness that distinguishes the second from the first tent scene. It's just magic.
:)
yeah, even the colors in the scene, from cool blues to warm tones are beautiful contrasts.
As for the "switching" sexual roles, to me, I just don't think there's enough to tell one way or the other. I'm of the mind that Ennis isn't all that conflicted about whether he's queer or not. To me, his conflict is how he fits into society and the dangerous consequences that it entails. so it's possible that he may be willing to be versatile.
yeah, even the colors in the scene, from cool blues to warm tones are beautiful contrasts.
As for the "switching" sexual roles, to me, I just don't think there's enough to tell one way or the other. I'm of the mind that Ennis isn't all that conflicted about whether he's queer or not. To me, his conflict is how he fits into society and the dangerous consequences that it entails. so it's possible that he may be willing to be versatile.
I like the contrast to the love making styles in the first and second tent scene too... you get the sense that if Jack could always be "in charge" things would always be super sweet and intimate... lots of kissing and cuddling. He's always wanting to kiss... you can tell he's frustrated by the fact that Ennis wouldn't kiss in the first tent scene, and in the reunion kiss Jack is still trying to reach for Ennis's lips when Ennis is ready to head back to the apartment. You also get the sense that the cuddling in the motel is like seventh heaven for Jack. I mean, I think Ennis likes and needs all these things too, but they seem super important to Jack. This comes across in the idea that the hug in the flashback scene was Jack's favorite memory. Jack is just adorable.
:D
You also get the sense that the cuddling in the motel is like seventh heaven for Jack.
....... Jack is just adorable.
:D
You are just adorable, Amanda!
Nobody can decribe these things as well as you!!! :-*
Love it!
Heya again,
By the way David, what's the deal with the cute photo you included in your post? I've seen other people post it here and there. Is it a "real" photo from some promo shoot, or is it photo-shopped together? I've always wondered where it came from.
(http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1113.0;attach=3200;image)
"ain't no reigns on this one" I could melt on how Ennis says that (or how Heath delivers the line - pick out which description you prefer :) ). And a second later, he does a kind of a very little sigh. It's not actually a sigh, it's unvoiced, more like letting the air out like "phhhhh..."
It shows Ennis's state of mind: giving up (can't fix it), resigning, and being emotionally exhausted by his thoughts and speech. Just by one little "phhhh". Makes this scene even more poignant. I love this sound. So sad but so sweet.
Hey, David, you know what I really love about that scene? A moment later, those little worry lines on Ennis's forehead melt away, and Ennis looks like he's going to simultaneously cry and smile at the same time.
Hey, David, you know what I really love about that scene? A moment later, those little worry lines on Ennis's forehead melt away, and Ennis looks like he's going to simultaneously cry and smile at the same time.
When Ennis first dances with Cassie, they're right next to a woman covered in tattoos. I couldn't help being reminded of the tattooed bikers Ennis beats up at the Fourth of July picnic. There, he was protecting the women and children from the unwanted advances of sexual predators; here, he's putting himself in danger of a sexual situation with a woman that, deep down, is unwanted, and which will end up being equally destructive, on an emotional level, for all concerned.
Something that has always bothered me about that introduction: most guys, after soul kissing a loved one for five minutes...have hard-ons...sorry, but just the facts, Ma'm.
yeah, we actually had a few discussion about that on the old CT. to me that's why we see Ennis sticking his fist in to this pocket, and Jack stands a bit hunched over, to lessen the visibility of their ... um ... "excitement".
Well, fortunately, Roland, everyone else seems to have gotten my point...
I would like to carry this "hard-ons" thing a bit further--this is just a querry, based on my own experience.
The other day, I was sitting in psychology group, thinking about Brokeback Mountain, and not psychology group, as usual--but my eyes happened to rest on Diana Levy. Diana is aboiut 20 years yonger than I, very attractive in a quiet sort of way, dark hair to her shouolders, brown eyes, gentle lines, (about 2) in her face, and a soft voice. We are good friends..
I startred thinking (I am absolutely stright. and have been for 71 years), that if I had to--because i had wound up in a movie somehow, and so had she--kiss her repeatedly for as long as half an hour (allowing times for re-takes), her body pressed against mine--that I would be pretty hot and bothered by the end of that time! Just the closenewss of an attractive human being, of either sex, for so long as time...
I ran this by my ex-husband (who forgot to move out after we got divorced ), and he said "How old am I" and i said "sbout 25." (he is also straight). he laughrd, "I would have come twice during that time, and be ready for more."
"Gosh,--you unberstand, this is another man, a friend, attrative--but you're not gay, not in love".
"At 25, I couold come, walking down the street from my jeans rubbing against my stone-hard dick, so if I had to kiss an attractiver person for as prolongued period of time--of either sex--I'm SURE I would get a hard-on."
In fact, he said, it wouold take him, at 25, about 5 minutes...
I'm suggesting that the problem may have been more real than we casually think...
Wolf, I believe that zippers existed on levi's jeans as well as other brands - so I don't believe this to be a mistake, but buttons on wranglers - definitively never heard of that!
Sorry Julie. I can't discuss your point cause I don't understand what argument you are advancing.
Another implication of Alma overhearing Jack's request to grab a bit to eat, and Ennis's acquiescence, to my mind at least, is that it shows her how little regard Ennis has for her feelings compared to those of this unknown old buddy of his who she has seen kissing her husband. In the published screenplay, we are told in an authorial aside that Alma hopes for a rare social outlet in Jack's expected arrival, and thus proposes the restaurant outing; she has even donned lipstick in the anticipation of such an excursion. Ennis's characterization of Jack not being the restaurant type is not only a lie, but also becomes an insult to Alma, however unintended.
5. As Ennis is leaving for the first "fishing trip," Alma looks out the window and hears Jack say, "I'm starving. Let's get something to eat." She starts crying at that point, perhaps partly because she realizes that Ennis' claim that Jack isn't the restaurant type was yet one more lie, and partly because she now grasps that Ennis wouldn't even consider asking her to fix something for them (and hence, in a way, doesn't need her any more). The latter thought, in fact, may explain her utter lack of sympathy for him in the "dinner's on the stove" scene.
New detail... And, I don't remember this one being commented upon before. I've begun increasingly to notice the background details in the bar scene right at the beginning when Jack and Ennis are getting to know each other following the intial meeting with Aguirre. I LOVE the fact that there's a dart board right behind Ennis's head. It really is right behind his head... so you only notice it on occasion when he moves his head or when the camera shifts. I like thinking of those darts as cowboy versions of cupid's arrows. And all those darts are pointing towards Ennis as if they've come from Jack's direction. I also quite like the lasso that's behind and to the side of Ennis (it's much more visible and is hanging on the large bull's skull on the wall). The spirals of rope next to Ennis's head seem to indicate that all sorts of complicated things are going on inside Ennis's mind (that he might be tangled in knots, metaphorically speaking, in certain ways). In contrast, Jack is very noticeably sitting in a bright ray of sunshine. Or the ray of sunshine frames him from behind. He's clearly in the position of the "beloved" here or the object of Ennis's emerging attraction.
:D
thanks starboardlight!
I'm in love with that dart board... and that ray of light at the moment.
There's another detail that I love about the beginning of the film (it's way off topic from the early bar scene). I LOVE that there are no credits at the beginning of the movie. Leaving all the credits until the end wonderfully lulls the viewer into the pace and mood of the film immediately. I love that Lee allows the scenery and the gorgeous score to do all the work here... and doesn't let something as mundane as credits break into this.
thanks starboardlight!
I'm in love with that dart board... and that ray of light at the moment.
There's another detail that I love about the beginning of the film (it's way off topic from the early bar scene). I LOVE that there are no credits at the beginning of the movie. Leaving all the credits until the end wonderfully lulls the viewer into the pace and mood of the film immediately. I love that Lee allows the scenery and the gorgeous score to do all the work here... and doesn't let something as mundane as credits break into this.
In the Thanksgiving scene at Monroes house. Right when Ennis is storming out of the house, you'll see a picture hanging to the left of the front door. It is of the snow capped Mountains!
Yup, the Twists are doing just fine. But I'm sure Jack would give up every dime to live with Ennis in a shack. :-\
Yup, the Twists are doing just fine. But I'm sure Jack would give up every dime to live with Ennis in a shack. :-\
NO DOUBT! And so would I, for that matter. But do people really think that Jack and Ennis could have lived and worked alongside hateful Father Twist? Sorry if that's OT... maybe it belongs in a different thread. Just a thought.
Excellent! Thanks for the chuckle. The Widow Twist could have started the first PFLAG chapter in Wyoming, and Bobby could have had the first "I love my gay dads" t-shirt in the Great American West. Now what if Bobby and Jenny took a fancy to each other over summer vacation?
I always plan to pay more attention to details, esp. to details I read about and haven't notived before. Meanwhile I succeed for the first part of the movie, but then I get lost again. Esp. the last third is still too devastating to be able to recognize anything beyond the obvious through the tears.
maggiesmom, you got it. Completely. Mrs. Twist knows that the love of her son's life is in her house. She wants to keep him there as long as possible so as to keep a piece of her beloved son alive - hence the "You come back and see us" and the grasping at her own throat. But we know Ennis will never come back - he's seen all he needs to see. And really, so does she. That's what so overwhelmingly (in my case, anyway) heartbreaking about this scene.I like to think that as time went by Ennis returned to Lightning Flat as Jack did at least yearly after his trips with Ennis to help on the old ranch. In Jacks place he may have come to live there after his father passed to help Mrs. Twist as his way of honering Jack and the kindness his mother gave him. Of course he would have Jacks childhood room, the shirts returning to the closet where Jack safley protected them for so many years. This is where Ennis would have felt closest to Jack, where he grew up.
Even if he never told her about them, she would know that Jack would never wear a shirt like Ennis'. His shirts were always solid. When you watch the other stuff hanging there, there are a couple of coats and solid shirts. A loving mama would recognize immediately that it wasn't his shirt but another man's, and she'd have already known Jack was gay by her very lovingness and acceptance of him. Add to that, as you say, his talk of Ennis Del Mar, and she'd have it all put together.In the camping scene after the reunion Jack IS wearing a plaid shirt under his jacket, but its the only time.
I like to think that as time went by Ennis returned to Lightning Flat as Jack did at least yearly after his trips with Ennis to help on the old ranch. In Jacks place he may have come to live there after his father passed to help Mrs. Twist as his way of honering Jack and the kindness his mother gave him. Of course he would have Jacks childhood room, the shirts returning to the closet where Jack safley protected them for so many years. This is where Ennis would have felt closest to Jack, where he grew up.
OMG! That is exactly how I want to see the future for Ennis!
Ennis has no family other that his daughters. We know Ennis likes to work on a ranch, so why not up in Lightning Flat? I can easily see him getting a postcard from Jacks Mom saying that the old stud duck has died and that Ennis is welcome to come back for Jacks ashes. Ennis would go up there and end up helping our on the ranch. With nothing back in Riverton for him except that lonely old trailer, he accepts an invitation to stay and live there while he helps run the ranch. Maybe Bobby Twist gets thrown out of the Newsomes life when he comes out of the closet. He ends up driving up to Lightning flat to meet his Grandma. He meets Ennis who becomes a step Father to him.
Me too, Penth. One thing I have noticed is animal skulls on the wall when Jack and Ennis are together -- there's one in the bar where they're having beers and (maybe?) one somewhere else. So I always think, maybe that skull means something; I'd better watch and see if I spot any other skulls. I never do, but I'm not sure if that's because they don't exist or because I get too caught up in the story and forget to look. Anybody else see any?
Hey there Katherine. Yes, there's definitely that large bull's skull on the bar wall behind Ennis's head (with the lasso around it) in that early bar scene. Ennis gets the big skull/ lasso and Jack gets sunshine (and other details that are hard to pick out) as background details behind there respective heads. And, the one other animal head I can think of is in Aguirre's trailer right at the beginning. There's a sad little jackrabbit's (?) head on the wall. It's not a skull... it's essentially a taxidermied head (it still has white fur). I'm really not sure what kind of animal it is.You are right Jack DID also wear a large pattern plaid under his outer shirt the next summer at the Agguire trailer.
And, about this subject of the shirts... Yeah, I think it's a really good idea to point out that Mrs. Twist probably would realize that Ennis's shirt was not at all the style of shirt that Jack would have worn, so that she would be clued into its significance (by that and by her understanding of Jack broadly). It's curious to note that Jack wears a patterned shirt to the reunion camping trip, because this is also the first time that we see him wearing that darned light-colored hat (always a bit of a puzzle to me... despite the numerous discussions here and there about the subject). So, in the reunion Jack is taking a step towards dressing like Ennis. I wonder though, did Jack wear a patterned shirt as one of his layers the summer that he returns to Aguirre's trailer (the look what the wind blew in scene)? Still, I do think it may be significant that Jack is skewing towards dressing a bit like Ennis... Because, I've always wondered about Ennis's comment to Alma as he's rushing out the door to get to the motel following the reunion kiss. He says his smokes are in "the top pocket of my blue shirt". We've never seen Ennis wearing a solid blue shirt (a la Jack)... we have seen him wear the shirt with the blue intersecting lines with a white background (the "you bet" post office scene). But, here at least Ennis is mentioning very Jack-like clothing. Maybe a sign that this is a moment when they're truly interconnected.
I know if I were apart from someone I felt strongly for, they would more or less be on my mind most of the time whether I liked it or not (like BBM is now!) and in everyday moments I'd think of that person. "oh, XXXX would love that" , "this is XXXX's favourite food", etc. Somehow the same kind of thing might have extended to clothing. ???Absolutely, Nic. The symbolism of the shirts is so powerful. They really were thinking of each other by wearing each others colours. In the 'You bet' scene Ennis is actually wearing both colours. And not just the shirts, the symbolism comes through in the colour of their cars too. In the final lake scene, Ennis's car is blue and Jack's is brown.
This talk of shirts.. just a thought, it's fairly way out but if I can't say it here where can I say it ? (The loony house :laugh:) Maybe when they were apart they got to dressing a bit like the other in a way to make up for the absence, possibly even subconsciously, trying to make a connection somehow. I know if I were apart from someone I felt strongly for, they would more or less be on my mind most of the time whether I liked it or not (like BBM is now!) and in everyday moments I'd think of that person. "oh, XXXX would love that" , "this is XXXX's favourite food", etc. Somehow the same kind of thing might have extended to clothing. ???
and in everyday moments I'd think of that person. "oh, XXXX would love that" , "this is XXXX's favourite food", etc. Somehow the same kind of thing might have extended to clothing.Yep :)
And, the one other animal head I can think of is in Aguirre's trailer right at the beginning. There's a sad little jackrabbit's (?) head on the wall. It's not a skull... it's essentially a taxidermied head (it still has white fur). I'm really not sure what kind of animal it is.
Nic, if you're loopy then most of us are. (Well, most of us are, but ...) Here's a thread called "color coordination" in which the significance of shirt colors and others is discussed:Thanks for the links. There is so much to check in my next viewing, plus being on the look out for more subtle details. Never enough time, never enough... :)
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1247.msg25186#msg25186 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1247.msg25186#msg25186)
And the subject of colors is also a big part of the "black hats, white hats" thread:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1266.0 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1266.0)
...snip...
I also love how in the close up of Jack saying "...redlined it all the way," Heath acts with his ear - you can literally see his ear smile.
Tell you what... all these little subtle details we love make up the entire movie!
For what Focus features called "just an Art House Film", these boys sure put 110% into every little detail. I don't even have to watch the film to start crying. I just think of our beloved Jack & Ennis and I can get misty eyed. :-\
I don't care what the Academy voters thought. The more I watch this film, the more I feel it is an F'ing masterpiece!
Another detail I like: when Ennis is following Jack into the bar at the beginning of movie, their strides are exactly in sync. Every single step, matching strides.
I also love how in the close up of Jack saying "...redlined it all the way," Heath acts with his ear - you can literally see his ear smile.
Does Jack wear a pattern shirt on another occasion than in Aguirres trailer? I think it's the only time, isn't it?
I love: Ennis' twitch, in something like a smile, when Jack says "How bout you?" It's almost enough to make up for his lame answer.
Ennis's whole face brightens up along with that twitch, from about 3% expressiveness to 9% expressiveness, which is a whole lot on the Ennis expressive-o-meter for any emotion other than anger.
...I love the way that Ennis strokes Jack's collar in the flashback scene. Such a loving gesture.
Did you notice his thumb seemed to be 'stuck' in Jack's eye just for a second as he was stroking Jack's face in the second tent scene? One of the many subtle things that make the scene so realistic, and Ennis so endearing.
I think everything about that little scene of them riding next to each other is meant to convey the idea that they're in harmony at this stage and things are at a relatively smooth moment in their relationship (the color of the sky, the smooth way the sheep are all moving together... and especially Ennis's smile and adoring look at Jack, all make the scene feel really peaceful to me).
The look on his face is a physicalisation of the close proximity of pleasure and pain. He can hardly belive he's doing this, and at the same time he's so overwhelmed he can't decide which part of Jack he wants to touch first. The speed at which his hand passes over Jack's face and chest is like he's almost afraid to linger in any one place too long.
And Jack, sensing that Ennis is uncomfortable in Riverton suggests he move to Texas.
Poor Jack, always getting shot down.
I have to disagree with everybody about Ennis's stroking Jack's jacket being a lovable detail. Every time I see Ennis stroking or clinging to Jack's clothing, I start gnashing my teeth because it's the man who he should be touching, not the clothing! In making that crucial mistake, look what he gets in the end, an empty life and a closet with Jack's shirt in it.
It's like a deliberate theme. There are those few times early on when you see him touching actual skin, and then never again. From then on it's clothes and, eventually, empty clothes.
I love the Ennis express-o-meter! Had to LOL at that one. Part of the reason I enjoyed watching Casanova was seeing Heath's face unfrozen. I have to disagree with everybody about Ennis's stroking Jack's jacket being a lovable detail. Every time I see Ennis stroking or clinging to Jack's clothing, I start gnashing my teeth because it's the man who he should be touching, not the clothing! In making that crucial mistake, look what he gets in the end, an empty life and a closet with Jack's shirt in it.
Poor Jack, always getting shot down.David, I think that pic you posted is a great example of another aspect of Jake's acting (by the way, sometime I have to force myself to type Jake rather than Jack... I wonder how many bloopers happened on set over mixing up those two names once in a while).
I love the "course he hates my guts" look, too. And also the "Nope, too busted up. Rodeo ain't what it was in my daddy's day" and then Ennis shakes his head and agrees, "No." How would he know? But it's a cute sort of bonding line.
I think they "bonded" over their mutual exclamation right at the beginning of the scene of "4 years!" as if they've both been holding their breath for all those years. One of my favorite aspects of Ennis's conversation here in the motel (other than his attempt to demonstrate interest in the rodeo topic) is that he shows genuine concern for Jack. He shows that he's been worrying about that punch for 4 years... and I think he's probably been worried that the army did "get Jack." A scary prospect in the mid-late '60s.
the cliched couples in those scenes aren't talking about punching each other or how much rodeoin has changed over the years.
Thanks for reminding me of the times Ennis did touch Jack, Amanda. :D
I have to disagree with everybody about Ennis's stroking Jack's jacket being a lovable detail. Every time I see Ennis stroking or clinging to Jack's clothing, I start gnashing my teeth because it's the man who he should be touching, not the clothing!
So, here's a question. What is the deal with Ennis's pajama bottoms?
??? :o
. What is the deal with Jack's interior decorating in the Texas house? Bright yellow chair? Bright, bright purple dining room chairs?
??? :o
Thanks for the ideas regarding the oh so important topics of pajama bottoms and interior decorating. David, yes, I agree that the "realism" in the set decoration is very good at evoking economic status and a period feel. I guess I also agree that the Texas house is probably really meant to look like a Newsome house. And, very Texas-in-the-'70s too I would think too. Stil, wow, what a color combination.More to the point it doesn't mattler that the herd were mixed up. The sheep know there herdsman and simpley need to be lead away and the right sheep will follow.
So, I have another random question that will reveal my ignorance regarding sheep herding culture. Why and how were there Chilean sheep in Wyoming? Chili is a long, long way away from Wyoming. I mean, I love that detail in the story/ film but I've never quite understood it.
So, I have another random question that will reveal my ignorance regarding sheep herding culture. Why and how were there Chilean sheep in Wyoming? Chili is a long, long way away from Wyoming. I mean, I love that detail in the story/ film but I've never quite understood it.
I always assumed that the sheep itself were not Chilean. They were only so-called, because they were tended (not owned) by Chilean herders.
The both know they were happiest (ever) when they were living together... and that was in '63. I think Ennis even recognizes this (even as he's rejecting Jack's idea), but he's too afraid to give it a shot.
Theres a scene that always makes me have a bit of a giggle....In the screenplay Jack is clearly worried, know Ennis would not slack, covers is concern with indignation.
When Ennis gets thrown from the horse when the bear scares him and is late getting back to the camp, and jack says.."Where the hell you been, I been out watching the sheep all day, and come back down, and theres no dinner for me"...(or something similar to those words)......It reminds me of a husband coming home from work, and saying to the wife "what the hell you been doin all day, and you havent even made me dinner"
Dont know if that dialgogue, was meant to look like a "husband and wife" scenario, but it did to me......
Hi Katie!
Welcome to BetterMost. Have a cup of coffee and a piece of cherry cake.
:)
Oh sure, I completely agree with you about Jack's tone of voice after the bear incident. It does sound like the voice of a nagging (but loving and concerned) significant other. I think a lot about the Brokeback summer is about showing how they developed their own version of a domestic partnership. Completely on their own terms, and it evolved to suit both of them beautifully (until they were broken apart too soon by Aguirre cutting the summer short). I think this is why Jack's proposal later about ranching up together and the cow and calf operation makes so much sense. The both know they were happiest (ever) when they were living together... and that was in '63. I think Ennis even recognizes this (even as he's rejecting Jack's idea), but he's too afraid to give it a shot.
I don't know if this might have been mentioned here already, but last night I was revisiting the DVD, and noticed something (well, a couple or even three things really) for the first time. First of all, in the scene right before Jack's harmonica-playing moment in front of the tent, we see the boys in long shot, with Jack carrying a large piece of wood (driftwood?) on his back. I can't believe it didn't register till this late, but I noticed for the first time that Ennis goes up and pats Jack on the shoulder here. This further emphasizes Ennis's growing comfort and affection for his mountain companion.
Is it just my hearing (or the little voices in my head) - or is Ennis humming/singing to himself when he come back from collecting food at the bridge - just before getting 'spooked' by the bear?Oh, you heard right...he is indeed humming there, specifically a tune called "The Cowboy's Lament". I actually had a hard time discerning the humming in the theater (though I knew it was there from having read about it), but find it easier to hear on the DVD.
I thought that was hearing things but then I watched it again and I'm sure I can hear something. I might just have a dud DVD mind you...
I've been meaning to post this lovable subtle detail for a long time, but keep getting distracted.
I love that in the scene where Alma hides one of Jack's postcards inside a folded newspaper/ circular that the type on that newspaper includes a very prominent ad for "milk and honey."
Oh, you heard right...he is indeed humming there, specifically a tune called "The Cowboy's Lament". I actually had a hard time discerning the humming in the theater (though I knew it was there from having read about it), but find it easier to hear on the DVD.
Cheers,
Scott M.
And as the camera lingers on the word 'honey,' the next thing we hear is Jack calling Lureen, "Honey, you seen my blue parka?" SHE gets to be called Honey by Jack, not Ennis. :(
Also, that black hat on the wall surely is meant to remind us of Jack (even if it really is John's hat or something).
Ooooo, good catch!
So here's another detail... very different context. I love how many empty chairs there are in the Lightning Flat scene. They're everywhere... there's one (or two?) behind Ennis and one behind John Twist and then one at the table and then one in Jack's room. These I'd say are meant to be constant reminders of Jack's absence. The number of chairs is striking since the house is otherwise so empty. Also, that black hat on the wall surely is meant to remind us of Jack (even if it really is John's hat or something).
I think the empty chairs are there to emphasize the emptyness of the Twist house in general and the absence of Jack. I don't think the Twists often have visitors; friends or family to come around and having a good time together (ha ha, old Twist and having a good time - an antagonism itself). I think these two people barely ever need six chairs in their kitchen. Old Twist has run off every friend they might have had a long time ago, I guess. And Mrs. Twist suffers from this. Her house, her home is an empty and lonesome place. And it gets even worse after Jack's death. For Jack's mom, his visits must have been the brightest days in her year.
All the empty chairs, the almost surreal emptiness of the place combined with the creepy white walls everywhere all make this scene slight spooky. I feel like we can almost imagine the "ghost" of Jack inhabiting those chairs, sitting behind Ennis and listening in on this very important conversation. I think the slight... and I do mean slight... spookiness continues in Jack's room especially with the sound of the crow that comes in once Ennis opens the window. The most "spooky" moment to me comes with the swaying arm of one of Jack's coats in the closet (it starts swaying after Ennis caresses it) that seems to prod Ennis on to find the shirts. Something about this eery, continuing presence of Jack just knocks me out.
But, is it possible that the Old Rose whiskey is meant to be a reference to "stemming the rose"? I almost hate to bring this up.
:o
That's what I've imagined. There they still are together, them and their old roses. Sort of shocking - but Heath sure seems to delibertely hold the bottle so that we can read it.
Second thing: This news is currently making the rounds, and I just confirmed it for myself last night. The new tidbit of information is that Jack, in the first tent scene, can be heard to mutter "Fuck me" two or so times right after Ennis enters him. The words are spoken so softly as to barely register, but once heard, they are definitely present. The camera even rests on Jack's (actor Jake's) face as he utters these lines. When I first heard this news, the words somehow didn't seem right for the character in this moment, but they felt completely true and appropriate when I actually heard them. This further suggests Jack's worldliness (relative to Ennis), experience, and lust.
[/quoteI
I FINALLY HEARD IT BUT ONLY ONCE SO FAR
So, here's a question. What's your favorite subtle detail amongst all the lovable subtle details? I'm sure this may be an impossible question for some of you... and I thought it would be for me too. But, the more I think about it the more I realize that the way the wheel on Jack's truck spins out at the very beginning in front of Aguirre's trailer truly is my favorite detail. I remember loving that detail from my very first theatre viewing of the film. Who knew that a truck could have personality?! And they say that pets come to resemble their owners after a good number of years together... well maybe the same is true with old truck.Here is one I saw brought up on IMB. When Ennis is leaving the Twist's at LF when he looks back at the farmhouse you see the name Jack spelled out. The way I see it in the full screen version is. J-the dark part of the first cloud. A- the frame of the house. C-second cloud. K-tree to the right. The poster said the J came from the windshield of the truck, but if they mean the front it doen't show in the full screen- and I can't make a J out of the back window without subtracting.
;)
Doesn't she have intensely blue eyes in that scene, just like Jack??
The "clumsy as I am remark" seems to be contradicted in many scenes in the movie... this being a key one I'd think.
They both have beautiful hands, don't they Katie! And I like the hands on the face or back of head or neck, so different than the way men and women kiss, with men just using the kiss as an excuse to get at the woman's body!!The stop clock, at a quarter to nine.
Is it hot in here? Oh, yes, what I originally came here to talk about are the little things on Jack's dresser that we see when Ennis goes into his closet. There's a little covered wagon and a pair of bronzed baby shoes. They are so touching and those things actually remind me of Ennis. The covered wagon because four-footed animals and four-wheeled vehicles that crawl upon the earth always remind me of Ennis, and the shoes for the same reason--rooted to the earth. There is one other thing on the bureau but I can't remember what it is. Can anybody help me out?
I love, love, love that as Jack is tugging on it one of Ennis's buttons pops open.
For real?? I can't wait to go see that. Nice to know I don't really have the whole thing memorized.
Here's my favorite detail for the evening (buttons aside)... the wink that Ennis gives Jack during the prayer of thanks camping trip. He does this right after Jack asks "for what?" and Ennis gives the teasing answer about forgetting the harmonica. It's a nice little bit of affection for Jack... sort of like a tiny, tiny declaration of what Ennis really means. Jack's big smile after this is wonderful.
Yes that wink,...oh that wink....is beautiful.....shows affection....shows how comfortable he is with Jack...shows a sense of humour....shows rememberance of a past happening between the two of them....shows he loves being in that place in that time with that man......Almost looks like Jack returns the wink. He most definitly aknowleges it.
I just saw the button - how did I miss that? I've always been tuned in to Jack's hand on Ennis's shirt there, and Ennis's yummy neck exposed.I can buy the facia tic. there is also one when Ennis and jack are asleep in the final tent scene.
What you alll are calling the wink - I see that differently. I see it as a facial tic, that a big smile like that is so rare on Ennis's face, that it's like a spasm of rustiness, his muscles are so unused to that position.
The quote ...
...Then he got married. And no more room for me. That's how come me end up here.
It took me the english subtitles (which I rarely use) to catch this unusual phrasing [I think he's simply repeating the same pronoun that he had used in the previous sentence], that helps project Ennis' lack of formal education. Anyone else never notice this detail?
The word "come" seems to trip him up sometimes. How come me end up here...If I should come to know them.
...Then he got married. And no more room for me. That's how come me end up here.
[I think he's simply repeating the same pronoun that he had used in the previous sentence], that helps project Ennis' lack of formal education. Anyone else never notice this detail?
It's the innuendo that gets to him, every time.
LOL! Yes all sorts of little details about the reunion are way up there on my list of favorite details. About Ennis's shirt here... I love, love, love that as Jack is tugging on it one of Ennis's buttons pops open. It took me something like 20 viewings before I even noticed it. So, apparently, not only did Ennis have to do a lot of shirt-tucking and looking around before heading back upstairs... he must also have had to re-button that button because it appears to be buttoned when he enters the apartment. And, by the way... I'll mention this again... I love that he wipes his mouth as he enters the apartment door. The final touch in putting himself back together before talking to Alma.It also magically becomes rebuttoned when the camera angle changes.
:-*
Another subtle detail that I always listen for is the sound, like WHUMP! or WALLOP! that ensues when the two men come together in embrace, such as during the reunion and post-divorce scenes.
and also the little sense of joy or surprise when Ennis hears that Jack has a son. I think secretly, Ennis was hoping for a boy himself, and was sincerely happy that Jack has one.This is one of my favorite moments in the film, and it is also one of the happiest. I think you may be right about Ennis's desire for a son of his own--in the short story, he tells Jack that he always thought he'd have a boy, but ended up with only girls. He clearly loves his daughters "to bits" (says so in the story), but I get the sense that a son would have provided another avenue for male bonding, something that I believe Ennis desires, both sexually/romantically (via Jack) and emotionally/amicably (through the son he never had, and perhaps with the father that he lost and the brother from whom he seems estranged).
I get the sense that a son would have provided another avenue for male bonding, something that I believe Ennis desires, both sexually/romantically (via Jack) and emotionally/amicably (through the son he never had, and perhaps with the father that he lost and the brother from whom he seems estranged).
I love (well... it's at least a very smart detail... if not lovable exactly) that there are photos of Jack and Lureen visible in some of the Texas locales. I think there's a picture of them together at least during the scene following Bobby's birth. This just emphasizes how sad it is that Jack and Ennis don't have photos of each other... or together. It seems to emphasize how invisible their love was to society.I often thought that Jack's mother would have given Ennis a picture if Jack. But since he didn't garduate high school, the may not have had a school picture of him older than a boy and the only others would be with Lureen and Bobby.
:'(
//OT//Hey, nic:
This is a BBM confession prompted by the above posts about photos, sorry it is OT but I'm sure it will do me good to get it off my chest: I have several soppy fantasy versions of what happens to Ennis after the end of the story & in one, he gets a package from Lureen with a couple of photos of Jack but also photos of him (Ennis) taken by Jack on one of their trips when he smuggled a camera along (he couldn't let Ennis know as Ennis would have smashed it up). And there is even one of them both together when Ennis was sleeping and Jack managed to set up a timer. Aaahhhh...Not sure if it would make Ennis feel better but I like the idea, as evidenced by going to the trouble of inventing a convoluted story to engineer it. I really do question my sanity some days :laugh:
//normal thread may now resume//
//OT//
This is a BBM confession prompted by the above posts about photos, sorry it is OT but I'm sure it will do me good to get it off my chest: I have several soppy fantasy versions of what happens to Ennis after the end of the story & in one, he gets a package from Lureen with a couple of photos of Jack but also photos of him (Ennis) taken by Jack on one of their trips when he smuggled a camera along (he couldn't let Ennis know as Ennis would have smashed it up). And there is even one of them both together when Ennis was sleeping and Jack managed to set up a timer. Aaahhhh...Not sure if it would make Ennis feel better but I like the idea, as evidenced by going to the trouble of inventing a convoluted story to engineer it.
I really do question my sanity some daysDon't we all? :laugh:
And there is even one of them both together when Ennis was sleeping and Jack managed to set up a timer.
Hi everyone!
I haven't waded throught the WHOLE thread, so forgive me if I make a reapeat here, but here goes (and by the way, today is my 1st BBM anniversary. Sunday, January 29th 2006 was the day my life started being deeply shaken...).
So after 12 or 13 viewings, I have just noticed that as Ennis leaves "on one of his little trips", after Alma says "Forgettin' something?" and Ennis has gone, she stares blankly and 2 male voices on the radio say:
A: "Why did you do that?"
B: "Well, what can I say?"
I thought this was just spot on!
Try this one on for size. I noticed this quite out of the blue. When Jack is laying on the ground playing the harmonica...I could swear he's playing "He Was a Friend of Mine". Granted his playing is bad, but the melodic attempts follow the line of that song. Now I'm not sure when Dylan released that song.
I couldn't stop thinking about the look on Ennis's face when Jack yaks on about the sheep killed by lightening. I've always loved and been intrigued by that look - at first I thought it was maybe just a reaction to the imagined 'smell' of the sheep, or Jack's use of the word 'asphixiate' (no idea how to spell it properly), but recently I've wondered if it's also a look of confusion, fear, and fascination with the very fact that Jack is speaking to him so easily, spinning him a yarn as if they were old buddies.
Try this one on for size. I noticed this quite out of the blue. When Jack is laying the ground playing the harmonica...I could swear he's playing "He Was a Friend of Mine". Granted his playing is bad, but the melodic attempts follow the line of that song. Now I'm not sure when Dylan released that song.
Try this one on for size. I noticed this quite out of the blue. When Jack is laying on the ground playing the harmonica...I could swear he's playing "He Was a Friend of Mine". Granted his playing is bad, but the melodic attempts follow the line of that song. Now I'm not sure when Dylan released that song.
According to this site, http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/ (http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/), it wasn't released until 1991 in The Bootleg Series.
OK that's a heck of a lot of chronological license.The anachronism might seem less glaring if we credit the report that Dylan didn't actually write the song, but rather transcribed it and recorded it. I believe the lyrics (and tune?) are anonymous, and might date as far back as the 1930s; FRiend Lee, do you know any more particulars about this?
The anachronism might seem less glaring if we credit the report that Dylan didn't actually write the song, but rather transcribed it and recorded it. I believe the lyrics (and tune?) are anonymous, and might date as far back as the 1930s; FRiend Lee, do you know any more particulars about this?
I've always seen it as a little bit of all of these, particularly the first and third. Heath's acting is so good he can convey two completely different reactions in one facial expression. He seems amazed that someone is interested in having this kind of friendly conversation with him.
I always feel very moved by that look, and by the thought that this is the first time he's experienced this.
BTW, I remember once we were discussing what facial expressions from BBM we found ourselves adapting, and someone mentioned this one. I was pretty impressed; it's a hard one to duplicate.
So... ok, it existed in the early 60's. I doubt that Jack Twist would have had Bob Dylan bootleg recordings hiding under the seat of his old truck, but maybe he could have heard the "traditional" song? I dunno.
I love this idea!! Where is that topic!! What immediately comes to mind is Jack's expression as Ennis is telling his life story and Ennis's subsequent face as he says "What?"
Jack's harmonica, both times he plays, is positively a variant of "He Was a Friend of Mine". Gustavo Santaolalla is the actual player, and using his own harmonica, in a recording studio. (The "amateur" sound he's mimicking is actually quite hard to duplicate... but gives the flavor of someone not very good at playing harmonica.)
My fave lovable detail from the film is not so subtle but I love the lean back that Ennis does so he can get a better view of Jack going up the mountain. Such an inscrutable expression on his face. I also like the fact that Ennis calls out to Jack about the horse's low startle point - cos I wouldn't have expected to hear a peep out of him so soon given his near silence up til that point.
"coat of many colors"
We usually discuss this in terms of the movie, but some of the most lovable things in the story are where Jack transforms himself into Ennis's beloved horses. There is the time when he was "trembling like a wrung out horse," when he was "hauled onto all fours," where he indulged in horseplay and horsing around, and when he was "kicking them to high heaven."
And when Ennis called him "Little darlin'".... :)
((((Lee))))
Lee??? MIME????? we are going to have a MIMING CONTEST IN ESTES??????
o...
my....
god...
mine, jack, I was mining the thread for reenactment ideas! Not mime!
The idea of Brokeback Mime competitions is just too amazing for words.
I thought it was such a little thing I heard...
Adam already volunteered beating on a shirt with a stick while wearing only boots
But only in Ten Sleep or Brokenback Creek or Spring Creek in the Big Horns.Deal!!
-Adam
Too late!! I've got it on the agenda!! I think our committee needs to practice!! :laugh:I hesitate to nominate Monica for sitting at the table during the Childress Children's Dinnerinner, she would look lousy as a blonde roflmao
Don't worry, you can do your avatar and Mime sleeping on the job with a blue heeler at your side! Adam already volunteered beating on a shirt with a stick while wearing only boots (even though it is somewhat out of character!), and now, let's see, what shall we have the others do???
I hesitate to nominate Monica for sitting at the table during the Childress Children's Dinnerinner, she would look lousy as a blonde roflmao
Monica is drafted for barrel racing duty!! Plus I think she could dispatch those suitors very handily in the bar scene as well as deliver a fine "Whaddya waitin for, cowboy? A matin call?" ;Dnow that's good...or cassie
I see LauraGigs as Cassie!!
For my part, I have experience as:
Chilean sheepherder, Aguirre, Alma, Lureen, and the Clear Slick!!
Take your pick!!
what the hell IS that thread, stream of consciousness brokeback roflmaoooo????Yup!!
one lovable, subtle detail I've mentioned here and there over the months but get little follow up is the brief scene when Ennis and Jack meet at Aguirre's trailer.
When Jack arrives, he moves back and forth along the side of the pickup. At one point, after he clearly notices Ennis as a person of interest, he lowers his head to allow his hat to cover his eyes. For a split second, his lips move. I believe he is saying to himself either "Oh my God" or "Can't believe it".
anyone see this detail the same way? thanks!
^ Wow - gotta check that out myself! But I don't have trouble believing that - I'd say something very similar if I laid eyes on either of those two, & then you'd have to pick me up off the floor ;D
It made me think about Jack having a really strong reaction to Ennis at the get-go, then knowing he'd be working with him all summer & how he was going to handle it. I'd be a nervous wreck. I think Jack was a bit nervy to start with but soon realised that he needn't be cos nothing was going to be happening any time soon where Ennis was concerned :P
thanks, I had not seen any indication in the script that there was dialog at the segment, but for sure his lips were moving. One of the tiny details that few have noticed!
I just watched the movie AGAIN..............and i noticed something funny.........its in the beginning when Enns near the trailer and Aguire drives in like he is going to drive right into the trailer.....Ennis quickly moves out of the way....just one quick movement, but i thought it was funny.....and i could picture Ennis thinking...."holy shit"
"
It seems like a bad sign that they would turn to a joint AND whiskey in order to relax during this late camping trip.
You would think that just being together would be enough to relax them.
. . . Which brings me to a detail I always wanted to point out: when they are seen in their last intimate embrace that night, Jack's hand is out of the sleeping bag, reaching away from Ennis.
I never cared to get immersed in the "did he quit Ennis or not" debate. But it seems that the more you read on this film, the less likely it is that any detail is insignificant. The blocking of that motionless scene nudges me further toward the "quit" camp, sadly. (Though Ennis would always be the love of his life. I think the proper phrase would be "give up on" rather than "quit".)
As the two boys watch with baited breath to see if and when Aguirre will deign to come back out and call them in, the viewer can just barely discern Jack in a rear long shot nervously wiping his face again as Aguirre is seen walking back and forth in the trailer and Ennis has his back to Jack. I like to think that Jack is furtively wiping his face again not for the sake of impressing Aguirre, but this time to make sure he looks his best for Ennis.
HI Amanda,
I believe that the Notice Anything So Subtle thread's content has been reposted by an indefatiguable poster named
True Oracle of Phoenix. Can't wade through the entire IMDb board right now to find it, but I'm sure a version of the original thread is still up there.
Casey
Jack...nervously wiping his face again as Aguirre is seen walking back and forth in the trailer and Ennis has his back to Jack. I like to think that Jack is furtively wiping his face again not for the sake of impressing Aguirre, but this time to make sure he looks his best for Ennis.
It's not mentioned in any of the versions of the three screenplays I have, so credit must be given to Ang Lee and Jake Gyllenhaal for this detail in a film with countless such subtle and meaningful touches.
Casey Cornelius
Hey bjblakeslee:
Grateful for the link. Thanks...
From your comment should I gather that your moniker is True_Oracle-of_Phoenix
on the IMDb Brokeback Board?
Ennis picking a fight and kicking with a balletic kick the biker in the presence of Alma and his daughters at the Riverton July 1 fireworks mirroring his picking a fight with Alma in the presence of his daughters and kicking over the ash-bucket...
Well there are two subtle instances that stand out for me.
1. During FNIT after Ennis jumps up in suprise to what Jack is doing, placing his hand on Ennis, Jack subtly takes Ennis's hand and places it back on his apparent erection. This time Ennis does'nt resist, then Jack proceeds to removing his coat. Did anyone else notice this?
2.. About Jack's mom., When Ennis arrives to retrieve Jack's ashes Mrs. Twist opens the door and comes outside as oppose to Mr. Twist. She knew who he was already, and led Ennis to the shirts with a gentle prodding to go upstairs to Jack's room where she had "kept it just like Jack would have wanted" Ennis discovers the shirts.
Yup, these are two great details Bud! That gesture that you mention in item 1. ( :D) is really easy to miss... I think partly because their hands are off-screen, so you can't exactly see what's precisely happening. But based on the angle of their arms and the brief exchange of glances, Ennis's sudden stillness, etc. it does seem to be just what you said. I think that Jack redirecting Ennis's hand like that and Ennis's reaction this second time is exactly what gives Jack the confidence to proceed.
And, the more I watch the scene in Lightning Flat, the more I notice moments of silent communication between Ennis and Mrs. Twist. She absolutely knows who Ennis is and clearly was a big factor in the preservation of those shirts (and keeping them a secret from Old Man Twist). When Ennis comes back downstair Mrs. Twist smiles and nods at him when she sees what he's carrying. I love Mrs. Twist.
:)
I still don't see the first one, Jack placing Ennis's hand on his crotch a second time. I had read it before and looked for it the second to last time I saw the movie (last time was with my fellow Brokies at the BBQ and I was totally swept away again).
Guess I'll put the DVD in later and watch the part in slow motion.
And Jack´s mother stroking Ennis´s hand while putting the folded shirts into the paper bag is just too lovely!
5. The controversial "I love you" that I'm convinced Ennis says as he hugs the shirts (tv on really loud, headphones on, 3 inches from tv)
It's obvious though, words or no words at that moment, he's loves Jack, but you heard words? Really? I never noticed his mouth moving for anything more than sigh. I have to check that out too now.
Hi Rayn,
Oh I'm convinced of it. It's more of a momentary fluttering of his lips as he breathes out heavily... but I hear "I love you" and I won't let anyone tell me otherwise!!!! (seriously .... sit 3inches from the telly, put some head phones on and turn the volume right up!)
Susie (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_1_201.gif)
You won't get any argument from me. It's there all right, along with "darlin" (reunion) and "sweetie" (punch).
THAT IS A GOOD POINT AND QUESTION, YOU ARE SAYING FRONT-RANGER!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Butt...talk, Artiste!! Can you say that in French??
CAN WE FIND OUT SOMEHOW??
And, remember too when Ennis says: You do not know, to his former wife as she and he washes dishes?? He keeps QUIET very long time front of her; like he had still such a toothbrush in his mouth... not wanting to tell her of his private love affaire with Jack!! But, she keeps on her butt... talk!!
Hugs!!
In the original short story, Jack notices, when Ennis strips to warsh everything he can reach, that Ennis is not wearing underwear nor socks. That implies that Jack is wearing them.
Oh, in regard to whether Mrs. Twist looked through Jack's left behind belongings, some people have to wait a long time after a loved one, even a child, before they sort through them. For some people, the grief and bereavement process lasts a long time. While Jack's mother never said that her adult son helped her in the house, only that he helped his father on the ranch, I believe that when clean clothing was put in Jack's closet, it was Jack who took it upstairs. Annie Proulx's Mrs. Twist was recovering from an operation when Ennis showed up at her home.
It was more that a year after my late partner/husband, Ed, died before I got any professional help with the loss of Ed and it took few months of weekly sessions to get to where I could be get on with his loss. But, then by that time, I had another big problem I had gotten assaulted from behind and hit in the head several times. Then I had to continue therapy related to that trauma.
Don't know if this was mentioned yet but I love the little smile on Ennis' face when he sends that little prayer up. It is only one of two times he seems really happy. The other tiime is of course when he is standing on the landing looking down at Jack when he first arrives.
Don't know if this was mentioned yet but I love the little smile on Ennis' face when he sends that little prayer up. It is only one of two times he seems really happy. The other tiime is of course when he is standing on the landing looking down at Jack when he first arrives.
I know Jack smiles a lot, at least early on anyway. But I think that since Ennis smiles so few times it is a real treat when he does let those walls down for however brief a moment.
I love the scenes where Jack and Ennis are setting up camp. One example is the short scene where Jack puts a rasher of bacon in a sack and hoists it on a tripod so bears can't get it. I love that scene!
Another thing I like about that scene is the reflection on Jack's chest. I like to imagine that the moonlight is coming in thru the window and reflecting off Jack's chest. OMG, I have to watch this movie again!
... the little gleam of a tear that appears in Ennis's eye when he says "I'm stuck with what I've got here"... :'(
while Jack was more conducive--we know he attracted lightning, hehe--and more associated with metal things like can openers, harmonicas...
One might call Jack's personality "magnetic," even...
Hello,
I've been searching around for a thread where this is appropriate but couldn't seem tofind the right one. Hope maybe you'll consider this a lovable detail...I've been thinking about the different ways Ennis says, "Jack Fuckin' Twist" in the movie. At the beginning of the reunion scene, when he drops the pan in the river and at their last trip up to Brokeback when he threatens Jack. Interesting, isn't it?
Lori
Hello,
I've been searching around for a thread where this is appropriate but couldn't seem tofind the right one. Hope maybe you'll consider this a lovable detail...I've been thinking about the different ways Ennis says, "Jack Fuckin' Twist" in the movie. At the beginning of the reunion scene, when he drops the pan in the river and at their last trip up to Brokeback when he threatens Jack. Interesting, isn't it?
Lori
I totally agree with both details being mentioned here lately. I think Jack F'in Twist is a very affectionate nickname, even the last time we hear it, in the lakeside argument. Ennis clearly is not affectionate in this moment, but yet, it is such a familiar term I think it shows their intimacy and close connection even in this harsh scene.
Apologies if this has been mentioned before!!!!
I love when Ennis gets the 1st postcard and rubs his thumb along the edge of it.
It is almost as if he cannot believe what he is seeing/reading/holding.Particularly considering how much time has passed.
I can remember getting cards from loved ones ,and fngering them in just such a manner. The person almost becomes tangible ,as if touching something they have also held provides a link to them,makes you feel just that bit closer to them.
His expression is also a lesson in understatement ,and at the same time portrays so much.
How sad that such talent is no longer with us.
Why do the good always die young?
I loved that little gesture with the postcard too! And the fact that you could see his lips move as he read the words again. It shows such sensitivity underneath that tough exterior.
Just like the last scene in his trailer when he was rubbing his finger over the postcard of brokeback mountain again.
It is mesmerizing!
I loved that little gesture with the postcard too! And the fact that you could see his lips move as he read the words again. It shows such sensitivity underneath that tough exterior.
Just like the last scene in his trailer when he was rubbing his finger over the postcard of brokeback mountain again.
It is mesmerizing!
I loved the look Jack gave when Randall was propositioning him and he realized he just wasn't innerested in Randall...because he loved Ennis. And Ennis gave this same look after he dropped LaShawn cold and she told him "Girls don't fall in love with fun."
Like Amanda, I don't think it's much of a problem to cover them up, otherwise actors wouldn't get them. I think make-up is checked (and fixed if necessary) between takes anyway. I've never noticed any of Heath's tats (or of other actors) in other movies.
Jack is so lovable when his thoughts come out despite him trying to cover them up for Ennis' sake:
"We should both be in this camp."
"That's one a the two things I need right now." (from the story)
"I can't get by on two HAFs a year."
He's always thinking in twos.
Good point about the "twining" and "paralleling" comments made by Jack! This compliments my obsession to see the film as a palindrome.
Remember, we catalogued all the Ennis/Jack stage right, stage left back in September of 06?? Here's a link to it, and I don't think we made any definitive conclusions:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg83363.html#msg83363 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg83363.html#msg83363)
Broke, a lot of us share that obsession. I know of one person who thinks it's a mirror, literally scene for scene. Personally, I don't think it's quite that symmetrical -- there are reflecting scenes that aren't in perfect opposite sequence, and little mini-mirrors thrown in here and there, to keep the pattern from being too neat.
But definitely there are matching reflected images, the most obvious being the opening scene with Ennis riding in a truck going in one direction at dawn, carrying a bag with two shirts, and the scene near the end of Ennis riding in a truck going in the opposite direction at sunset, carrying a bag with two shirts. In fact, that one is SO obvious it almost seems like a deliberate suggestion to viewers to look for others.
I agree that the mirroring/symmetry/palindrome pattern isn't always completely neat and tidy. But, there are certainly lots of recurring patterns (as we've all noticed)... sometimes having to do with content/narrative/dialogue and sometimes having to do with subtle things as in how certain shots are composed.agreed, the palindrome pattern is not neat and clinically exact, but it is so apparent that clearly it was done deliberately to give the film a structure of parallels. The film is guiding us to think in terms of the twin lives and how they interact and repeat. I personally believe that the palindrome effect is one of the subliminal reasons why the film has such a deep impact, certainly I have recognized that this is responsible for much of the film's effect on me.
On Friday night while watching BBM the idea of certain shots being composed in similar ways really struck me. Particularly in the examples on Brokeback where Jack is either standing to the right in the frame (or is entering into the frame from the right) and Ennis is either mounting his horse on the left/already sitting on his horse to the left or riding away to the left. The three examples of this that I can think of are (1) at the time of the job switch... Ennis is with his horse to the left and Jack approaches from the right and says "you won't get much sleep..." (2) the morning after TS1 (3) the moment immediately following the dozy embrace.
I think the interesting point to bear in mind is that there are patterns... of many kinds and varieties. And, sometimes different patterns overlap or intertwine. And, none of this is absolutely precise all the time. There are some examples that seem pretty precise (like the trucks driving horizontally across the screen/landscape at the beginning at end, but in opposite directions... and like the paper bags at the beginning and at the end) but precision is certainly not the rule.
I was looking at stills from the bar scene today and the cigarette in the ashtray between J & E all of a sudden really struck me. It's placed so carefully!
I love it. 8)
(http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/4688419-f79.jpg%22%20border=%220)
Never noticed that before.....and now I have, makes me wonder IF either one of them would really have sat their ciggie in the ashtray. I am a smoker, and if I were sitting at a bar I would hold the cigarette and just use the ashtray to flick the ash, and butt it out when I had finished it, but I doubt if I would sit it in the ashtray like that. Would be interested to know if any other smokers on here would either.
Never noticed that before.....and now I have, makes me wonder IF either one of them would really have sat their ciggie in the ashtray. I am a smoker, and if I were sitting at a bar I would hold the cigarette and just use the ashtray to flick the ash, and butt it out when I had finished it, but I doubt if I would sit it in the ashtray like that. Would be interested to know if any other smokers on here would either.
Wel spotted.I am a smoker (oops) and would never leave a cigarette like that.Mainly because I would just end up with smoke in my eyes,but also becuase it is a tactile thing as well.I sit and twiddle.Anytime I have given up eg when pregnant, I used to twiddle a pen instead. All smokers I know hang onto their cigarettes.
It is interesting too, that asking for a light is a classic pick up tactic.I even had it used on me about a month ago.I was so pleased,pathetic I know,but such little things can make a girls day!!!!!
Yes that first kiss in TS2 is so tender, just after Jack had said its all right and with the kiss, Jack was assuring Ennis that THIS was all right.
It showed Ennis that what was going on between them was something special, something tender and gentle and was not just going to be a wam bang thank you, like the night before.Jack was showing Ennis that there were genuine feelings between them, something very intimate and personal. Ennis's response to the kiss showed Jack, that he was feeling the same way.
The scene was just soothing, too. The two seemed comfy. Especially when the scene started, Ennis was sitting outside near the fire and kept glancing over at the tent. He couldn't resist so he got up and slowly walked over with his hat in hand.
It was almost as if he was 'surrending' himself to Jack, but in a cozy way.
katie77 - I agree wih your 'surrendering' comment, but I kind of thought it went a little bit further, that 'surrendering' for Ennis also meant to his needs also, being wanted, as well as wanting intimacy missing so much in his life to this point. Your thoughts?
Oh yes......they were both starved for love and affection, and just being needed by someone.
They both felt they got all this from each other, theres no doubt about that.
TS2 was the acceptance, that they could trust one another with those feelingsl.
It is such a beautiful scene.
Another subtle thing I love is the way they pick up where they left off no matter if it's been a day away from each other on the mountain, months since the last high-altitude get-together, or a whole effen four years!! One example is how Ennis tells Jack "I thought you was sore from that punch" and Jack knows exactly what he was talking about, even though it was a long four years ago!!
I just came upon Brokeback on cable this morning, and I ended up watching it for the first time since Heath passed. It was wonderful to be at home with Ennis and Jack again, and I must be getting better about grieving, because I was able to watch most of it without too many sharp pangs when I remembered that Heath is gone.
But here's a subtle detail that I never thought I would notice, and that even Ang himself never anticipated. Watching the credits for Heath's name, I noticed that it appears for the first time just as Willie Nelson is singing "Every time I think of him, I just break down and cry." Later, when the full list of credits appears, his name disappears from the screen just as Willie sings "I stole away and cried."
Will the sadness ever end? I don't see how it ever really can. :'(
Awwww... Meryl, that's great. I certainly never noticed those details about the music and the credits before. I'm glad to hear that watching BBM felt like coming home for you. That's really nice.
By the way, what channel was it on? Was it a nice, unedited version?
I reviewed that scene, friend, and you and the screenplay were right. Jack says 42 sheep, and Ennis says 43 miles on his parents' last drive. However, that scene is very interesting for the interplay between odd and even numbers. I'm going to watch it again soon.
In the early bar scene with J & E, Lee noticed an interesting harmony between what J & E say regarding numbers. According to the screenplay, Jack says the lightning storm killed 42 sheep and Ennis talks about 43 miles. But, during the viewing I thought we heard Jack say 43 sheep which is echoed in Ennis's 43 miles more precisely. Darn... now I may have to rewatch that scene to check and see if they changed the dialogue there ever so slightly from what's written in the screenplay.
Either way... the consecutive numbers or the identical numbers... there's a poetry there to the use of numbers (something we've noticed in other instances regarding numbers in BBM in past discussions)
Have we ever analyzed all the mentions of numbers to see if there's some pattern?
And so on. Lot of fours, but otherwise I don't see any obvious pattern. It would be interesting if something emerged, though.
Expanding your list (new items bolded):
Pair a deuces
neither of them was 20
42 sheep
43 miles
$24 in a coffee can
40 winks
coming thru on the 24th
Four f'in years
2 girls
8 months old
17 (on the mailbox)
19 (can do what you want)
One's enough (postcard from L.Higgin's shop)
We have talked about the twos, the 8 and the 17. Lots and lots of twos on the short story.
About the 17 (recapitulating from back then): the 17 on the mailbox, 17 letters in Brokeback Mountain, 17 mountain ranges listed by Proulx in the short stoy.
The 8: uh, it's so long ago. They miss August twice, the eighth month. There was more to the eight, but I don't remember right now.
But we never found (searched for?) an overall pattern of all the numbers.
There are definitively a lot of numbers, especially measured by the short length of the story.
And you're right: the four shows up very often.
I would add the number 3 to the list. As in "3 hours to cook...". I'm forgetting all the instances of the number 3, but I recall early on at imdb there was a whole thread (kind of comical) about the number 3.
That was a thread I started, Amanda. I'd been thinking about it when the discussion of numbers came up. Although "three" is rarely spoken in the dialogue, there are an amazing number of threes in the book and movie. Here's the link over in the IMDb Rewound forum:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,10834.0.html
Have we ever analyzed all the mentions of numbers to see if there's some pattern?
Pair a deuces
42 sheep
43 miles
$24 in a coffee can
40 winks
Four f'in years
17 (on the mailbox)
19 (can do what you want)
Expanding your list (new items bolded):
Pair a deuces
neither of them was 20
42 sheep
43 miles
$24 in a coffee can
40 winks
coming thru on the 24th
Four f'in years
2 girls
8 months old
17 (on the mailbox)
19 (can do what you want)
One's enough (postcard from L.Higgin's shop)
This is OT I know, but has anybody else here used "Brokeback" lottery numbers?
This is OT I know, but has anybody else here used "Brokeback" lottery numbers?
I find it very lovable that Ennis asks Jack if he's got a blanket on the night before the first tent scene. Ennis had started out being the camp tender and he would have known darn well where the blankets were kept but instead he asked Jack meekly for a blanket. In his drunkenness, he became almost like a baby and was inclined to follow Jack's orders later that night when he told him to get in the tent. :)
I love the fact that I see only Ennis and not Heath.
I love seeing Ennis season the food he is cooking as if it was fine dining, and maybe it was. It seems such a l;oving thing to do.
I love the fact that I am still here discussing the movie, right down to subtle details. Ilove the fact that I see only Ennis and not Heath.
It seems there are many references including the numbers in the 40's .I wonder if it is a deliberate link to the fact that Jack never made his 40th birthday, as in " he was only 39 years old" when he died, as said by Lureen on the phone to Ennis.
That however may be a leap too far but I always felt it was very poignant.In that he never reached the big 40 as it is often referred to.
Probably the 2 most cataclysmic events in Jack's life, one good, one horrendous, occurred in the last year of a decade.He met and fell in love with Ennis when he was 19 and he dies when he is 39. Yet separating those 2 odd numbers is 20 the number of years he knew Ennis. A very even number and in sharp contrast to the 19 and 39.
The 19,as in the age of Alma junior when she tells Ennis she is getting married, surely has to be reference to both Jack and Ennis.They were both 19 when they met, and Ennis had the opportunity to grab what hopefully Alma is going to. A happy life with the one they love.He blew it so we hope in direct contrast Alma will grab it with both hands and run.
It is very poignant that Ennis asks if Kurt loves her, not the other way round.
Jack loved Ennis and he now knows it, in the same way he can finally accept that he loved Jack. The contrast is stark.The melancholy of Ennis all the more apparant.
Yes, we do get so involved in other subjects on here, that we are spending less and less time talking about the movie. But thats not because we dont think about it, I guess its because most things have all ready been said.
And now, Im just reading about the blanket and Ennis seasoning the food, and I have a little smile to myself about those subtle details, and I'm sitting here now, smiling about our two boys and their little habits in the movie.
Actually having a giggle now, about Ennis shaking the salt and pepper, like he wa a chef in a bloody high class restaurant. You know I think I have always thought that, watching that scene, but didn't realize it, until you wrote about it.
I miss the boys, cause I havent watched the movie for quite a while. I think i will pay them a little visit, real soon.
It seems like at least once a week Jack and/or Ennis visits me in a dream and I wake with a feeling of joy or release, sometimes the sheets are wet (just a hot flash though) sometimes the pillow.
I bet (and hope) someone here can help me with the full name (in the actual movie) of the bar Ennis rushes to after the Thanksgiving fiasco? None of my screencaps of the scene show the bar's name. I think I know the name, but I need to be sure!
I'd very much appreciate it! :)
Thank you. That's what I thought it was. But the more I thought about it, the stranger I thought that name was.
Guess that's one of the subtle details then; - Ennis gets beaten black and blue to complement that Black and Blue Eagle?
And you're right with your observation about the fight. I makes you wonder whether the name of the bar is a coincidence or not? Somehow I don't think so.
This may help: read "On buckets, eagles, impatience and..." (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.0/all.html)
and this is where the eagle/horse analogy is first mentioned:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg12789.html#msg12789 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg12789.html#msg12789)
3. Next scene-(this is right after we see Jack ask Lureen where is blue parka is) Ennis is getting ready to go fishing with Jack, he is packing his bag in his bedroom and there is, off camera, a man talking. He is describing someone, "construction worker...etc" What is that supposed to mean or symbolize?
I think thats all. I apologize if these were all discussed at length some time ago.They may have been discussed before, but never resolved certainly. Such is the nature of Ang Lee's work, always leaving that "open space" between what we know and what we believe!
1. When Ennis and Alma are at the drive through-why did Ang pick that movie and that scene? What did it mean?
What did Ang mean by the following "back ground clips"? I am assuming they all have some meaning and were chosen for a reason-I agree with you that these scenes were chosen with a lot of thought. To give you an example of another small loveable detail, consider the snatches of harmonica playing we hear from Jack. As explained below by EDelMar (from earlier in this thread), these tiny bits of songs are actually clues to the plot and the personality of Jack:
Jack's harmonica, both times he plays, is positively a variant of "He Was a Friend of Mine". Gustavo Santaolalla is the actual player, and using his own harmonica, in a recording studio. (The "amateur" sound he's mimicking is actually quite hard to duplicate... but gives the flavor of someone not very good at playing harmonica.)
Open up the first harmonica sound bit (campfire scene). It has 4 sections. Here are the corresponding lyrics to those sections:
#1: Heeeeeeee was a friend of miiiiiiiine. He--- [cuts off here]
#2: Heeeee--
#3: Was a friend of mine.
#4: [He] just kept on movin',
On the 2nd harmonica piece as they're going up the hill. It has 5 sections back to back.
#1: Heeee was a friend of miiiiiiiine.
#2: [He] just kept on movin',
#3: Heeee waas a frieeeend (bad key...improvised)
#4: Was a frieeeeend (again bad key...improvised)
#5: Was a friend of mine.
It's a contortion of the song really...again deliberately warped and twisted. :)
"He Was a Friend of Mine" as we know it today is the collaborative work of 3 artists circa 1960: Bob Dylan, David Van Ronk and Eric von Schmidt. Dylan once said he got it from Blind Arvella Gray, a street musician in Chicago, but that's probably not true. WELL, he might have heard "Shorty George" being played by this musician. (See below). David Van Ronk stated at a concert once (right before playing the song), "I learned this song from Eric von Schmidt, who learned it from Dylan, who learned it from me". Around 1980 the 3 artists mutually decided to split royalty monies for the song.
Dylan recorded his version (upon which the Willie Nelson version was based) in 1961.
The ORIGINAL version is Shorty George, a southeastern US african spiritual or something written by Smith Casey. I have this recording; it's not readily available, and was recorded in 1939 for the US Library of Congress.
If you want to hear all 3 versions, come to Brokeback BBQ 2007 (http://www.brokeback2007.com) and I will have them there along with a large portion of the rest of the master soundtrack and early versions of stuff.
In the late 1960s the Grateful Dead played a song called "He Was A Friend of Mine" as well. Different lyrics, and that was really just a PORTION of another song, by Mark Spolestra from 1965, "Just a Hand to Hold". THIS SONG undoubtedly was inspired by "He Was a Friend of Mine" by Dylan/Van Ronk/von Schmidt because 1 year after Dylan recorded his version, Spolestra performed with him AND Van Ronk in New York City frequently.
-Ennis
PS: Ossana and MacMurtry originally scheduled Jack's 2 harmonica pieces to be "Kaw-Liga" and "Bad Brahma Bull". I have those too; come to the BBQ!!
Check out this thread by Casey Cornelius: http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,13719.msg0.html#new
Meryl
Did Casey ever discuss the use of the Olympic ice skating music in the argument at Thanksgiving scene between Ennis and Alma?
Inwooder, I'm researching those two visuals, one seen at the drive-in and the other on television. But while I'm doing that, I'd like to address your comment:I agree with you that these scenes were chosen with a lot of thought. To give you an example of another small loveable detail, consider the snatches of harmonica playing we hear from Jack. As explained below by EDelMar (from earlier in this thread), these tiny bits of songs are actually clues to the plot and the personality of Jack:
Ang Lee certainly chose his audio and visuals for a definite reason!!
by - Flickfan-3 (Thu Feb 2 2006 01:07:33 )
...as a Texan who was graduated from none of the universities I mention, I can offer some possible insight about MacMurtry's inside jokes...
the line Texans don't drink coffee? is Alma's query to Ennis when Jack does not have time to come into the apartment as I remember it so actually means that it is very UN likely Texans don't drink coffee, and there is something fishy if you don't want him in here...everyone knows why...even Alma at that point...
as far as the "tea sippers" epithet--- graduates from University of Texas at Austin are called "tea sippers" because the school's hand sign is to fold down two middle fingers and thumb and to have index and little finger extended upwards--just like the European horns sign which has a negative, sexual reference (which is why President Bush and his wife were castigated in foreign press some months ago for doing it to show support for UT at the Thanksgiving parade, I think)----so the "horns" gesture ties in with UT's mascot the well-known Texas longhorn steer----the "tea sipper" comes, I think, from raising the little pinky like the stereotypical Britisher drinking tea, and conveniently forgetting the index finger is there also. Also, and this goes to the second insider joke MacMurtry might have played, UT Austin graduates are considered more "effeminent" when compared to their arch rivals from Texas Agricultural and Mechanical University===Texas A & M.
...
Very astute of you, Lynne! I'm starting to know way more about Texans than I ever wanted to!!
I don't hink I could eat no cake just now, but thanks.but how about a cup of coffee?
Tonight I watched BBM with a non-Brokie - and it was the first time for me in about a year. In the midst of the viewing, and in the course of explaining to my friend about how Ennis's protective instincts about the sheep may be transferred to Jack... it occurred to me that the woolly collar of Jack's coat may be significant. So frequently, in the early scenes of BBM, we see Jack's face framed by the woolly collar of his green coat. To me, this must be significant.
RE-posting a picture for Sonja; we talked about this in chat last night.
This is Ma Twist in her kitchen. You can see the cherry cake in the background.
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/Penthesilea09/BBM/609cd283.jpg)
Closeup of the cherry cake with oddly only one cherry in it:
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/Penthesilea09/BBM/8890f0fc.jpg)
Thanks, Chrissi!!
LOL, I've never noticed it before!
Uhm......but (insert blasphemy warning).....it doesn't look much like a cherry cake to me.... ::)
The texture seems wrong, and the shape. And it seems the cherry (if that's what it is) sort of hangs in the air, without being attached to the cake at all.
But, OTOH, what do I know about Cherry Cakes Of The American West? ::) :laugh:
This specimen may be a typical example of the species. 8)
I´ve never noticed the cake in the background either. I think I expected it to be brown because the only cherry cake I´ve ever eaten was a chocolate cherry cake (made by Lee, I believe).
Tonight I watched BBM with a non-Brokie - and it was the first time for me in about a year. In the midst of the viewing, and in the course of explaining to my friend about how Ennis's protective instincts about the sheep may be transferred to Jack... it occurred to me that the woolly collar of Jack's coat may be significant. So frequently, in the early scenes of BBM, we see Jack's face framed by the woolly collar of his green coat. To me, this must be significant.
You're definitely onto something there, friend! Also, remember in the dozy embrace how Ennis stroked Jack's collar as he embraced him from behind? That's really a good subtle detail! And Jack was the one who didn't like the cold. :'(
Thinking about the one cherry in the cake, to me it signifies Ennis's aloneness now that Jack is gone. In saying he will take a cup of coffee but can't eat no cake, Ennis is saying he will "stick with beans", with his bitter life now that the sweet life with Jack is gone.
Yes, I agree that the one cherry in the cake is like half of a yin and yang symbol. Similar to the black and white barn door (?) that we see outside Jack's bedroom window, that appears to be an incomplete yin and yang symbol.
Meryl, do I recall correctly that the barn door observation came from you long ago?
I believe this is it:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1994.0/all.html (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1994.0/all.html)
I think Jack was protective of Ennis too. Until their final meeting, Jack never tells Ennis about Mexico though he's being going for years, nor does he tell him about his rancher "friend" down in Texas. He knows both those things would devastate Ennis and wants to protect him. I think the short leash comment refers to how Ennis gives just enough of himself, time, sex, affection to keep Jack hoping and coming back for more and Jack realizes it.
I'm reminded of a line in a song - "that's just the price you pay for the chains you refuse". Sometimes people refuse comittment or offers of love because they don't want to be tied down or are afraid, etc, thinking another option is preferable. And in the end, they still pay a price. Sometimes even a bigger price as in the case of Ennis. Every choice has consequences.
I still wonder why Jack complains that Ennis keeps him "on a short leash". Isn't that what he wanted, to be tied to Ennis and close to him?
First, I have to say I really, really love this site, and I allready read all is written "lovable subtle details".
Thanks a lot for this space, I love the movie as never before.
My english is not good enough but, please, be sweet with me.
I want to say this ( and I hope someone please answer and talk with me )
2. I could swear that the words that Jack said in the first take, out of Aguirre´s office is FUCK YOU. We can only see the movement of his lips.... I think he said that because he is a little angry with Ennis cold attitude.
3. In the tent scene, the first one, why Jack hit on the floor? I think is pain? Or he wants Ennis stop? Then I see Jack put his hand on Ennis hand, and then he tries to take both hands, Ennis and yours with the other, and then, they fall. I understand there is not only pain, but when I hear Jack in real pain.
My favorite part, all, but specially when Ennis is so so so happy "saying a thankfull prayer"
Hi Postcard, and welcome to BetterMost!
Glad you found us!
Want a cup a coffee, don't ya? Piece a cherry cake? ;)
THANKS A LOT ALL OF YOU!
:) :) :)
ps. there is any book about what could be happen after or/and before the story?
All about this movie is so moving, touching, Sometimes I feel I was the crazy one..... loking all the details, crying because Jacks is dead.... shaking, with them in the mountain, feeling what they feel in the tent, trying to image all the things I can´t see. Some days I have Ennis and Jack faces in my mind, their eyes... the way they speak, some nights I even dream with them, and I am just only a witness, speachless witness of all their hapiness and sadness. Sometimes I feel all is different after the movie in my life.
If you mean a book by Annie Proulx, there is only the short story the movie is built on. And it doesn't really tell us any more about Ennis and Jack than we already know from the movie.
But there's a whole universe of fan fiction out there. That's people who have written their own stories, sometimes pretty true to the original, sometimes diverting from it a great deal.
There's a board here on BetterMost where fan fiction is being discussed:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/board,13.0.html
There isn't really any discussion going on any more, but you may be interested in reading about the different fan fic stories anyway.
I would like to write a story, but.... Am I a little crazy? How can I image to do something about a so beautyfull story like this???Hi there. Don´t worry about it. Fan fiction is about paying tribute to a story we all love. The finished result is not what´s important, but the process of writing and being creative.
Hi! Thanks for your answer, I try to read, but I can´t go in to the page where the story is.
I would like to write a story, but.... Am I a little crazy? How can I image to do something about a so beautyfull story like this???
Hey!!! Look what I find! I don´t know if someone found it before.... It deleted scene from the movie looks at me so tender.... what do you think????
http://findingbrokeback.com/Deleted_Scenes/_Deleted_Scenes_Frame.html
:o :o
THANKS A LOT ALL OF YOU!
:) :) :)
ps. there is any book about what could be happen after or/and before the story?
Hi Postcard,Yes! I know, I have that book, I read it..... All that you say is so true, as the book.
As far as "after" is concerned, the revised version of the short story - as opposed to the initial version which was first published in the New Yorker magazine - opens with a description of Ennis, alone in his trailer, getting up around 5am. How much time has passed since Jack's death is unclear but as there is a reference to Ennis's "grey wedge of belly and pubic hair", clearly this is a much older Ennis. Nevertheless, Jack is still very much with him as, on waking, "he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream". And the two shirts are still very much with him.
On that board I linked you to, there are a variety of threads discussing each a particular story. You will find links to the story in many of the posts. Unfortunately many of the links don't work any more, because the stories have since been taken down and/or people have closed their accounts.
Many of the stories were posted on Livejournal.com, and there's still lots of stories still up over there. I believe there's also still discussions going on about different stories.
I did a search for you, and found this. You can try for yourself to click around and see what you find. I may help to become a member over at LJ.
http://www.livejournal.com/search/?area=journals&q=Brokeback%20Mountain
No, I definitely don't think you are crazy. Numerous people transformed the emotional impact they felt from the movie into creativity: writing, art, music.
Many people who had never written one word of fiction before started to write stories.
I don't know what your native language is, but there are stories in German and Spanish too, and probably other languages as well.
Hi Penthesilea!
The firts time I saw, I mean, with all my senses was a few weeks before. I love movies. But I never paid attetion to this one, I don´t know why, both actors, specially Ledger, I love them. Maybe I was so stressed with my own life in that time, when the movie comes out.
But, what do you think about the firts take, when Jacks put his arms on his truck, look Ennis, then he whispers something... he just move his lips, I can swear he said, fuck you.
Welcome to Bettermost Postcard. We are always happy to have new people here. If you want anything explained. How to find things, and some of the old threads that might interest you. Simply ask a mod. I am sure that they would be most happy to aid you.
We all love people who love our beautiful movie. I just passed my six year anniversary on the sixth of January. I watched it two times that day. I watch the film every anniversary again. Not to mention that I watched it at least one hundred times that first year. It is still in my mind the most beautiful love story since Romeo and Juliet. It has a lot of the same components as that story.
I think it marvelous that you can speak English so well. I am very lax in that direction. I speak English, and a passable spanish. Not fluent, but can understand it fairly well. I can follow the conversation, but not too good at it.
Feel free to post as much and as often as you like. You are going to be among friends and family here. Again WELCOME !!!
There is a story that is still being written on Bettermost. The writer is Louise VanHine. The story is posted on the home page. It is listed under
I never thought of the name of the bar being strange. But you're right Mikaela. Maybe 'Black and Blue Eagle' is a more common name for a bar in the west. Who knows?The bar name didn't strike me as particularly strange either.
And you're right with your observation about the fight. I makes you wonder whether the name of the bar is a coincidence or not? Somehow I don't think so.
There are a lot of threads I love here (you should see how many browser windows I currently have open!!) but this is by far my favorite. It has given me reason to watch this achingly devastatingly beautiful movie yet again.
Tell you what, I don't know what I'd do without Bettermost, because I am literally the only one I know personally that has been turned inside out by BBM.
Anyway, I had noticed a few of the LSDs already mentioned here, but there are a couple I haven't seen as yet in the thread:
1) The fact that BOTH Jack and Ennis end up dancing with women they may like but not love to "No One's Gonna Love You Like Me". I didn't realize this until I downloaded the soundtrack onto my phone and pulled an Ennis. "Hunh? Why's this one here twice?" Rewatched movie. Figured it out. Duh.
2) In the Twist Thanksgiving scene, Jack puts his hand on Lureen's back after he turns the TV off and heads back to the table. My husband and I do this kind of as a way of saying, "I've got your back on this one," and leads me to believe that they may not have been soul mates but Jack respected Lureen enough to back her up when came to parenting Bobby.
3) It's a very short scene, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE when Jack lets little Bobby drive the combine and yells, "No hands!" Both Jack and Ennis are almost literally suffocating under the weight each carries, but they really do make efforts to be present as fathers despite having both had poor relationships with their own fathers. Choosing in some small way to not be the kind of fathers they had.
4) In one of the bar scenes with Cassie, it took me several viewings to realize that when the Allman Brothers' "Melissa" came on, it was just after Ennis was at the jukebox. Was this the song Ennis chose? Had he heard it before and had it resonated with him? It certainly describes him to a T. I'm quite sad that song didn't make it onto the soundtrack.
5) I know it's been mentioned that Ennis winks at Jack during the 'prayer of thanks' scene. I just love the relaxed, happy look on Ennis' face. We get to see it so rarely, it's such a treat when it's there. There are a couple other winks too, so well-timed I don't think they're coincidental. A second one when Ennis arrives at camp just after Jack's blue parka scene. As soon as he gets out of his truck it's there. They're so happy to see each other. I love it. And the third during their last night together when Jack says he'll probably get shot by Lureen or the husband, and Ennis says, "You probably deserve it." There's a little wink there. I don't know what to make of that last wink.
Tons of subtlety and detail that just makes the story that much more heartbreaking. As has been mentioned in so many places here and elsewhere, Jake and Heath's ability (and to an extent Anne and Michelle's) to convey a whole story with the slightest change in expression - just brilliant. I love these actors, these characters, and this story.
I totally understand that feeling of isolation and not knowing anyone who was just as affected by this story as I was. To add to my pain, I seem to have watched this movie 9 years too late (first viewing june 2014), after majority of its fandom kinda...dissipated.dontinterrupt, we are in the same boat. I saw it for the first time October 2014 and too many times to count since. Still just as gripping now as it was the first time. I'm with you, friend.
As to lovable moments of the movie...I doubt this hasn't been mentioned yet, but it absolutely melts me to the bone when Ennis sends Jack these brief subtle looks of absolute and utter affection - e.g. just after "you'll run them sheep off again if you don't quiet down" and "well, you probably deserve it". It truly sums up everything Ennis feels, but can never say. At the same time, I love how these looks are being sent after some -also rare- carefree teasing on Ennis's part - uber cute
Another lovable part for me is the scene when Junior visits Ennis in his trailer, when you can clearly see a few times how much Ennis is still gripped by grief (his absent look out the window when Alma Jr says Kurt loves her) and when he makes hints only he understands (and probably wishes he could share with somebody someday), such as "when you got nothing, you don't need nothing" and "I guess you're 19, you can do whatever you want, is that right?" (am I the only one who sees more than just smalltalk in this question?)
Sorry to go totally off topic though, I am new to this forum and still don't know exactly what I should say where :)I love that whole motel scene. A lot of times I'll watch it once and focus totally on Ennis' face, then rewatch it and focus totally on Jack. There are a ton of details that if you're watching one, you'll miss on the other. Heath and Jake played that scene (and so many others) just spot-on.
Another tiny lovable moment of the movie for me was during the reunion scene at the motel. Ennis says "Didn't think I'd hear from ya again" and Jack kind of exhales in his hair with an "aaah" sound. Did anyone notice it? Like a sigh of disbelief at the notion of not writing to Ennis eventually. As if he was saying "Yeah, like that could ever happen". I love it, I love everything about that scene. Though gotta say, I wish Ennis in that scene was more like the OS Ennis, actually SAYING something. In Jack's (OS) word's: "Come on, give me somethin to go on, this ain't no little thing that's happenin here!"
I love that whole motel scene. A lot of times I'll watch it once and focus totally on Ennis' face, then rewatch it and focus totally on Jack. There are a ton of details that if you're watching one, you'll miss on the other.
Did you see that too? It's such an underrated scene!... Or am I overanalysing? ???
And I think Sonja and I are not the only ones.
aw, thanks, Sason :)That's such a painful scene, start to finish.
so here's another LSD I lately began to appreciate:
Fishing trip post the thanksgiving drama scene. The one with "God damn Jack-Fucking-Twist, got it all figured out, don't ya" (BTW: how harsh!).
Rewind a little bit to the moment when Jack says "Well, maybe you oughta get out of there, you know? Find yourself some place different, maybe Texas?". Note how Jack's tone and behaviour are so blatantly uncertain, really emphasising how insecure (almost scared) he still is after all these years, to be mentioning anything that even vaguely hints them getting together. He even tries to fake nonchalance when saying this, with the pauses and the shrug, but it really only highlights it. And then when Ennis starts to ridicule him with the sarcastic remark of adopting the girls with Lureen, this insecurity is confirmed again along with something else definitely present there when he just looks at Ennis defeat in his eyes, blinks a few times, then tilts his head (look closely, it lasts but a few seconds), as Ennis finishes his tirade. His "Go to hell, Ennis Del Mar" sums all these feelings up - resentful, quiet, voice breaking, then quickly replaced by anger.
Did you see that too? It's such an underrated scene!... Or am I overanalysing? ???
Jack's attempt on hiding his motives is pretty clumsy and Ennis easily sees through it. I can understand Ennis' strong reaction. E opens up to J, talks about his insecurities, his angst, about their situation (and I bet he wasn't often willing to do that!) and J brushes E's anxieties aside in one big swoop: just move to Texas, everything will be fine. As if Tx were so much more progressive and easy going. And no thought whatsoever about E's daughters. Easy to say for Jack. But of course, seeing poor Jack being put down so harshly is sad, too.
Like Sonja (Sason) already said, and as you can see here in Open Forum, we led these discussions of minuscule details over several years. Talk about excessive. ;D ;)
Haha, yes, so I've noticed :D which probably means that not many details by now escaped your attention and I am probably repeating a lot/ reinventing the wheel here... but for us rookies it is quite hard having to read through hundreds of pages of brilliant posts in each topic before contributing something of our own... hope this makes sense?
Thanks Penthesilea! I've not thought about this scene much from Ennis's perspective, you're right. I think you might have opened my eyes here, [...]
Haha, yes, so I've noticed :D which probably means that not many details by now escaped your attention and I am probably repeating a lot/ reinventing the wheel here... but for us rookies it is quite hard having to read through hundreds of pages of brilliant posts in each topic before contributing something of our own... hope this makes sense?
First, I have to say I really, really love this site, and I allready read all is written "lovable subtle details".Hi joandcruz! Welcome, you're with friends here! :)
Thanks a lot for this space, I love the movie as never before.
My english is not good enough but, please, be sweet with me.
I want to say this ( and I hope someone please answer and talk with me )
1. I love Jack´s mom at the end taking Ennis hand while she is putting the shirts in to the paper bag....
2. I could swear that the words that Jack said in the first take, out of Aguirre´s office is FUCK YOU. We can only see the movement of his lips.... I think he said that because he is a little angry with Ennis cold attitude.
3. In the tent scene, the first one, why Jack hit on the floor? I think is pain? Or he wants Ennis stop? Then I see Jack put his hand on Ennis hand, and then he tries to take both hands, Ennis and yours with the other, and then, they fall. I understand there is not only pain, but when I hear Jack in real pain.
My favorite part, all, but specially when Ennis is so so so happy "saying a thankfull prayer"
Thanks a lot. I would like to explain in a better way all I can feel.