BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Our BetterMost Community => Chez Tremblay => Topic started by: rtprod on May 18, 2006, 10:59:46 am
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A little tip -- plodding, overlong, convoluted, unintentionally funny, self-important and boring.
>:( >:( >:(
There -- said it all in once sentence.
SKIP IT.
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Oh, that's too bad. I like the book. Taking down rt's note to skip it, maybe wait for DVD to see how bad it is.
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See and I enjoyed it....it was a little slow at times I thought and VERY self important as you said but all in all I liked it...
But I also have a bit of a bias because of Tom Hanks/Ron Howard
I personally recommend....but then I'm not a critic so what do I know?
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Watched the news on TV last night about the critics' reactions in Cannes to this film... Apparently they hated it. They laughed at some point when it was NOT meant to be funny. I haven't read the book, didn't want to, but was wondering whether I'd go see it, what with all the hype. So it's overhyped then.
I'll keep my money to go and watch "Transamerica" instead, which has just been released here. AND maybe go back to see "C.R.A.Z.Y", which unfortunately is going to go unnoticed with DA VINCI coming out at the same time.
Da Vinci C overhyped and bad. C.R.A.Z.Y=no hype, and excellent!
Life (or the world of movies) is unfair.
rt, have you seen C.R.A.Z.Y? (Not being released in the States, but still, since you are in the know...)
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I read the book twice and i've planned to see the movie this week end...but the critics don't seem to be very good.
Anyway,i'll see how the adaptation is...but the book is so great that i think it'll be difficult for the movie to equal it.
Books are always said to be better .
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Books are always said to be better .
And BBM proved it could be otherwise (i.e, AS good) :)
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Yeah, in my reader's group, someone suggested "I thought stuff like this went out with CHARRIOTS OF THE GODS in the 1970's." It was an interesing point. Charriots of the Gods, the book, made into the docudrama purported to show extraterrerstial influence in our history and possible breeding. It was interesting and very popular to read, but the docudrama not so. I believe in the 1990's, the author of Charriot of the Gods said he might have misconstrued things, not given out all the facts, etc. Who would have thought?
Gotta watch those film critics, there under pressure to trash this film, so some Vatican observers say... Intl newspapers don't want ppl to desubscribe to theirs because a film critic just loved the Da Vinci Code. I find it hard to believe in the U.S.A, but the leadinig Italian newspapers? Who knows.
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rt, have you seen C.R.A.Z.Y? (Not being released in the States, but still, since you are in the know...)
I have not seen this one since it has not made it stateside yet, though I do know that it beat Deepa Mehta's excellent Water for the Genie. Am very interested in seeing it.
rt
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A little tip -- plodding, overlong, convoluted, unintentionally funny, self-important and boring.
>:( >:( >:(
There -- said it all in once sentence.
SKIP IT.
NO disrespect intended rt but I rarely agree with critics...you say plodding, overlong, convoluted, unintentionally funny, self-important and boring.
Well this E*X*A*C*T*L*Y how I reacted to the book so sounds to me like Ron Howard and company did a bang up job with the material....what more can you ask. ::shrugs:: Rarely do books translate well to film unless there is an excellent screen writer. The HP series does it pretty well as does most of the Gresham novels but most disappoint mightly.
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NO disrespect intended rt but I rarely agree with critics...you say plodding, overlong, convoluted, unintentionally funny, self-important and boring.
Agreed! And like I said....I personally enjoyed it! Now don't get me wrong.....its no Brokeback....not even in the same universe but I did like it nonetheless...
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NO disrespect intended rt but I rarely agree with critics...you say plodding, overlong, convoluted, unintentionally funny, self-important and boring.
Well this E*X*A*C*T*L*Y how I reacted to the book so sounds to me like Ron Howard and company did a bang up job with the material....what more can you ask. ::shrugs:: Rarely do books translate well to film unless there is an excellent screen writer. The HP series does it pretty well as does most of the Gresham novels but most disappoint mightly.
Hi Vic,
I would have expected from screenwriter Akiva Goldsman (A Beautiful Mind) that this would have become exciting, inviting or engrossing -- not so. There is zero chemistry between the stars to carry the endless amounts of exposition which sound as if they are read, read, read for the film's first unbearable hour...
rt
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See and I enjoyed it....it was a little slow at times I thought and VERY self important as you said but all in all I liked it...
But I also have a bit of a bias because of Tom Hanks/Ron Howard
I personally recommend....but then I'm not a critic so what do I know?
How come you've seen it Chris? I thought it was out everywhere on Friday?
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Hi Vic,
I would have expected from screenwriter Akiva Goldsman (A Beautiful Mind) that this would have become exciting, inviting or engrossing -- not so. There is zero chemistry between the stars to carry the endless amounts of exposition which sound as if they are read, read, read for the film's first unbearable hour...
rt
Well I agree with the no chemistry thing......but to me it definetely wasn't enough to 'skip' the movie....
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Well honey, it seems pretty obivious that even an experience and capable screenwriter like Akiva Goldsman could not turn this sows ear into a silk purse. Especially hard when the source material is so convoluted and overly self important yet detailed enough that you must have all the back story to make any sense at all of the plot. I felt the same way about the Andrew Birkin screenplay of the Umberto Eco novel The Name of the Rose.
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How come you've seen it Chris? I thought it was out everywhere on Friday?
I had to screen it this morning for work.....
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Thanks Rtprod. I've been DaVinci coded out of my mind lately with all the press on TV. I just don't care much for new twists on religious themes. I bow out of the belief system with the formation of the catholic church. That's where I consider the fairytale began. I have a hard time accepting most of what religion says, and certainly don't want to exert precious energy examining someone else's wild religious and/or sacrilegious imaginings.
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I had to screen it this morning for work.....
Chris, I envy your job! You will be the lucky few that can still see movie in theater even with a baby :).
For what its worth, I am not a big fan of casting Tom Hanks as Langdon in the movie to start with. IMO, Tom Hanks is a little bit too old for the role. I was all for Viggo Mortensen as Langdon (Vicky, do you like my choice? ;D). I can totally see the no chemistry part even without seeing the movie.
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Thanks Rtprod. I've been DaVinci coded out of my mind lately with all the press on TV. I just don't care much for new twists on religious themes. I bow out of the belief system with the formation of the catholic church. That's where I consider the fairytale began. I have a hard time accepting most of what religion says, and certainly don't want to exert precious energy examining someone else's wild religious and/or sacrilegious imaginings.
I concur. And not to be a total brown nose, but I generally agree with everything most critics say (Michael Medved and Roger Ebert can kiss my lily-white ass along with Mel Gibson, though). And I almost always agree with what RT says. Thusly, you couldn't pay me a brazillion dollars ;) to see this one.
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I concur. And not to be a total brown nose, but I generally agree with everything most critics say (Michael Medved and Roger Ebert can kiss my lily-white ass along with Mel Gibson, though). And I almost always agree with what RT says. Thusly, you couldn't pay me a brazillion dollars ;) to see this one.
Thanks Ednbarby...for a moment there I thought I was inciting violence.
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I was all for Viggo Mortensen as Langdon (Vicky, do you like my choice? ;D). I can totally see the no chemistry part even without seeing the movie.
LOL yes Jenny you and I see eye to eye on all things Viggo! LOL :D
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Now I'm just gonna throw my two cents in here...
No offense to anyone here because you know I love you all but.....granted critics are often times good judges in the film department hence the fact that they are critics...
But they aren't always right....and sometimes the best films get little critical appraise...so go see the film and judge for yourselves! You never know what your missin unless you actually see it...and if you don't like it then that is great - thats your opinion and I respect that....but you can't necessarily judge a film by its critical success....JMO
Ok so there it is....
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Sound advice Chris. Some of my all time favorite films where not critical successes.
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Mind you, I am a movie critic wannabe, so I'm more than a tad biased in this department. ::)
I don't take every review to heart, or even follow my favorite critics' picks and pans to the letter. But if it's the general critical consensus that something is crap, I'm gonna skip it. Similarly, if it's the general critical consensus that something is a must-see, I'm not gonna miss it.
Honestly, my feelings about the subject matter that Flash mirrored are a major deterrent, too, along with the fact that I attempted to read the book last year and disliked the main protagonist so much (can't even remember the character's name now - I think I'm repressing it) that I couldn't get past the first 50 pages. Then there's the fact that I think "A Beautiful Mind" was grossly over-rated (probably one of the few things RT and I disagree on) and that I think Ron Howard is a bloody scientologist and I'm up fed up to my eyeballs with those guys, and, and, and...
Long story short (too late as usual) you guys make a good point - if you're really stoked to go see the movie, go see it an decide for yourself. Truth is I wasn't that stoked in the first place. :)
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Well I definetely agree on the A Beautiful Mind thing Barb....wasn't THAT good IMO but then again there weren't many films that were that year.....
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Mind you, I am a movie critic wannabe, so I'm more than a tad biased in this department. ::)
I don't take every review to heart, or even follow my favorite critics' picks and pans to the letter. But if it's the general critical consensus that something is crap, I'm gonna skip it. Similarly, if it's the general critical consensus that something is a must-see, I'm not gonna miss it.
Honestly, my feelings about the subject matter that Flash mirrored are a major deterrent, too, along with the fact that I attempted to read the book last year and disliked the main protagonist so much (can't even remember the character's name now - I think I'm repressing it) that I couldn't get past the first 50 pages. Then there's the fact that I think "A Beautiful Mind" was grossly over-rated (probably one of the few things RT and I disagree on) and that I think Ron Howard is a bloody scientologist and I'm up fed up to my eyeballs with those guys, and, and, and...
Long story short (too late as usual) you guys make a good point - if you're really stoked to go see the movie, go see it an decide for yourself. Truth is I wasn't that stoked in the first place. :)
OHHHHHH, Barb, we are in TOTAL AGREEMENT HERE. I also felt A Beautiful Mind was overrated and over-awarded. No disagreement here, was just mentioning Goldsman's pedigree since that film does carry some clout.
rt
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OHHHHHH, Barb, we are in TOTAL AGREEMENT HERE. I also felt A Beautiful Mind was overrated and over-awarded. No disagreement here, was just mentioning Goldsman's pedigree since that film does carry some clout.
Phew! You know I hate it when we disagree, lovey. :)
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Is Ron Howard a scientologist?
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Now I'm just gonna throw my two cents in here...
No offense to anyone here because you know I love you all but.....granted critics are often times good judges in the film department hence the fact that they are critics...
But they aren't always right....and sometimes the best films get little critical appraise...so go see the film and judge for yourselves! You never know what your missin unless you actually see it...and if you don't like it then that is great - thats your opinion and I respect that....but you can't necessarily judge a film by its critical success....JMO
Ok so there it is....
On the role of the press and our film criticism profession... In our film critics prof. association, and it's one of the big ones with year-end voting and awards reported nationally, there's much discussion about this topic and my thought is as follows. The role of the film critic is to objectively look at the film and ask these questions:
1. What did the director try to achieve?
2. How well did he achieve this end?
Whether or not it was worth doing is a moot point.
That is all there is, folks. And though we'd like to think that subjectivity has a great deal to do with it, it really shouldn't be any criteria for a legitimate film critic when evaluating whether or not a film "works." One of the best barometers you can employ is to separate personal taste from whether or not a work of art succeeds on its own terms. Many times, whether or not we "like" something has little to do with how "good" it is.
When you can say, "I understand that this film is very good and qualifies as a success. However I personally didn't like it because...," then you know you're there in terms of your ability to remove yourself from your evaluation and talk objectively about the merit of the work. If you are worth your weight as a critic, you have to get outside yourself when it comes to subjects, genres, likes and dislikes.
In the world of critics--mainly men who spend days together in a small room in the dark, talking of nothing much more than celluloid, and rarely about the outside world--there are those who begin with different perspectives as the credits roll for each film. Perspective number one is the critic who is embittered and begins with a slightly negative stance the film must then overcome, as if it's to win him over. Perspective number two is the critic who genuinely loves film and begins with a glass half full take. And within the group there are TV journalists, entertainment "reporters," print, online, daily, weekly, cable, network, etc. So there are many different evaluations happening and to different ends.
Although, subjectively I wanted to love this one because anything that incites Christians to wave signs in the air and hold special services to debunk is A-OK in my book.... LOL
rt
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Is Ron Howard a scientologist?
I'm just guessing he is, based only on the fact that the message of A Beautiful Mind seemed to be "Love Conquers All - Even Schizophrenia!"
:P
So I could be (and hope I am) totally wrong. But it just seems like the kind of message one of those bozos would enjoy promoting.
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Phew! You know I hate it when we disagree, lovey. :)
Oh, me too babe. We just can't have that happening. I'd have to get on a plane and work it out with ya.
rt
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Well I'm not tryin to start a debate so please don't think that I am. And don't get me wrong I have absolutely nothing against any critic...even Ebert and Roeper and Medved...they give their opinions and although I may not always agree I respect it.
My only point was that just because the critics don't like it doesn't mean its a bad or good film....and you have to be the critic yourself and develop your own opinion....and you can't do that until you see the film. Thats all I'm tryin to say.... :) JMO!
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On the role of the press and our film criticism profession... In our film critics prof. association, and it's one of the big ones with year-end voting and awards reported nationally, there's much discussion about this topic and my thought is as follows. The role of the film critic is to objectively look at the film and ask these questions:
1. What did the director try to achieve?
2. How well did he achieve this end?
Whether or not it was worth doing is a moot point.
That is all there is, folks. And though we'd like to think that subjectivity has a great deal to do with it, it really shouldn't be any criteria for a legitimate film critic when evaluating whether or not a film "works." One of the best barometers you can employ is to separate personal taste from whether or not a work of art succeeds on its own terms. Many times, whether or not we "like" something has little to do with how "good" it is.
When you can say, "I understand that this film is very good and qualifies as a success. However I personally didn't like it because...," then you know you're there in terms of your ability to remove yourself from your evaluation and talk objectively about the merit of the work. If you are worth your weight as a critic, you have to get outside yourself when it comes to subjects, genres, likes and dislikes.
Now see as a film, and more exactly a story lover, I approach every film I see this way. But my heart and my visceral reactions are my ultimate barometer for personal like or dislike of a film. Even if I don't like a film I can talk all day about it's good and bad points but in the end if it did not move me in some way it fails me. Perhaps this, and the fact that most film critics are men, is why I disagree so frequently with most critics. Although so far, at least as far a I am aware within the confines of CT, you and I agree more than we disagree rt ;)
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I don't think it's right to clump all critics together into one group and say: "the critics didn't like it", or "the critics aren't always right"..etc, 'cause these "critics" often vary in opinion (i.e. how many movies got one thump-up and one thumb-down from E&R? Loads). Anyway, like some of you said, if we care enough for the story/book, we'll see it ourselves and make our own opinions, but for those who don't really wish to see it, this thread could be the say in whether or not these neutral people will bother to see it. Thanks for starting it, RT.
However, I will see it, not because I like the book (I haven't read it) or not because of Ron Howard or Hanks, but because I promised my mom I'd see it with her (she's a huge fan of the book). So in a few days I'll add my two-cents on the film. Take care, y'all :-*
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I don't think it's right to clump all critics together into one group and say: "the critics didn't like it", or "the critics aren't always right"..etc, 'cause these "critics" often vary in opinion (i.e. how many movies got one thump-up and one thumb-down from E&R? Loads).
Well when I say 'the critics' I ain't clumpin them up.....I'm using it as a general term to describe a bunch of critics or maybe even just one...I'm not sayin that all the critics didn't like it.....just the way I talk is all - sorry if it isn't proper or doesn't make sense! :)
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Now see as a film, and more exactly a story lover, I approach every film I see this way. But my heart and my visceral reactions are my ultimate barometer for personal like or dislike of a film. Even if I don't like a film I can talk all day about it's good and bad points but in the end if it did not move me in some way it fails me. Perhaps this, and the fact that most film critics are men, is why I disagree so frequently with most critics. Although so far, at least as far a I am aware within the confines of CT, you and I agree more than we disagree rt ;)
And there you go. Vic, you just perfectly summed it up.
Oh, and there is a female critic I love--Manhola Dargis in the NY Times (formerly of the LA Times). She is so astute, tough and well-written.
And yes, we usually do agree, don't we? Great minds was it? (patting us on the back, Vic, lol) ;D
rt
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Oh, me too babe. We just can't have that happening. I'd have to get on a plane and work it out with ya.
rt
*plotting*
Will arguing with you get you on a plane out here to work it out with me, rt??
*thinks*
*tosses solitary tomato at rt*
::)
Well, back on topic for a second.. I had an opportunity to go and see Da Vinci code last night...and didn't go. I totally agree with you Barb. If I had WANTED to see it, I would have been there. But having been a huge movie fan for over 20 of my 32 years, I have learnt to follow the general tide. If the majority of critics are loving something, then you can bet its a well-made movie, which always get 2 thumbs up from me. If most give it the thumbs down, there's usually solid reasons. I mean, the guys who do this for a living do know what they're doing, yeah?? Not all, of course. Roger Ebert case in point.. *sniff* Okay, i'm still trying to get over the whole "Crash" thing.
Hate to sound like a lemming here, but if it ain't good enough for my little rt, then I'm not wasting my time. I don't have enough time as it is!!! ;)
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*plotting*
Will arguing with you get you on a plane out here to work it out with me, rt??
Hate to sound like a lemming here, but if it ain't good enough for my little rt, then I'm not wasting my time. I don't have enough time as it is!!! ;)
Sheyne, my one and... whoops, damn, can't use that one anymore... Anyway, yeah, cross me babe and you'll hear my Oy Oy Oy coming faster than you can get your bum to the Virgin Blue terminal at Brisbane Airport....
Wow, the women of CT are really giving me a bump here today -- got my girls out in full force on this thread lol....
rt :-*
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Wow, the women of CT are really giving me a bump here today -- got my girls out in full force on this thread lol....
rt, we're just all trying to stay in your heart as we wait for the day that you meet Jake or Heath! ;) lol
Nah, we loves ya. :-*
Or...erm... we hates ya..there, will that get ya on a plane to come find me? ;D
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rt, we're just all trying to stay in your heart as we wait for the day that you meet Jake or Heath! ;) lol
Nah, we loves ya. :-*
Or...erm... we hates ya..there, will that get ya on a plane to come find me? ;D
I'll take that love any way I can get it.
Yeah, guess I'm a gettin on that jet plane soon. But not to Newfoundland or Brisbane, I'm afraid..... Uh, yeah, afraid. lol ;D
rt
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I'll take that love any way I can get it.
Yeah, guess I'm a gettin on that jet plane soon. But not to Newfoundland or Brisbane, I'm afraid..... Uh, yeah, afraid. lol ;D
rt
"Afraid"? Surrrrrrre... ;) I don't think "fear" is the exact emotion there! On a plane? Oh, I must have heard ya wrong.
Here we go again, transforming a perfectly innocent thread... :)
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PS. RT, I blame YOU! ;)
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Time for me to join in so I can get a litte of that rt lovin'...hmmm, no opinion on DaVinci, how about I am actually sitting in an airport as I type this? LOL Let's talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel!!
L
xoxo
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"Afraid"? Surrrrrrre... ;) I don't think "fear" is the exact emotion there! On a plane? Oh, I must have heard ya wrong.
Here we go again, transforming a perfectly innocent thread... :)
You, my friend, are truly....bad. Oh, that was a compliment.
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Time for me to join in so I can get a litte of that rt lovin'...hmmm, no opinion on DaVinci, how about I am actually sitting in an airport as I type this? LOL Let's talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel!!
L
xoxo
Leslie babe, you're already in the airport? Wow, I must really "rate" with you! Are those fresh Maine lobsters hissing in the pot yet (dontcha worry, they can't feel a thing)?
xo
rt
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Wow bummer about the movie. I was looking forward to seeing it, even though I don't generally like Ron Howard's movies. The poor reviews sound typical for his films, but some of the positive ones almost sound like a different movie. I may still see it, but more than ever I'm counting the days to X-3.
Juan
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Leslie babe, you're already in the airport? Wow, I must really "rate" with you! Are those fresh Maine lobsters hissing in the pot yet (dontcha worry, they can't feel a thing)?
xo
rt
LOL, I don't know if I am in "the" airport but I am in "a" airport, yes...and rt, babe, when I get home I'll swim to the bottom of the sea and pick up those lil ol'lobsters up off the ocean floor with my very own hands just for you...
jeez, I have been writing too much fanfic!
L
xo
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LOL, I don't know if I am in "the" airport but I am in "a" airport, yes...and rt, babe, when I get home I'll swim to the bottom of the sea and pick up those lil ol'lobsters up off the ocean floor with my very own hands just for you...
jeez, I have been writing too much fanfic!
L
xo
Geeze you're going to hold your breath for me? I can tell you no one's ever done that before... lol :laugh:
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RT: Eye nose I'm bad. I had to accept it long ago. :) Have you accepted your badness?
Leslie: Ewwwww.. Lobster. :-X
Juan: I can't WAIT for X-MEN 3! Sooooo excited! Just 8 days ;D
Geeze you're going to hold your breath for me? I can tell you no one's ever done that before... lol :laugh:
As far as you know! I happen to know of a certain someone whose breath was taken away by ya ;)
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As far as you know! I happen to know of a certain someone whose breath was taken away by ya ;)
And mine in turn. ;)
Oh, and you may find yourself breathing through a tube if you don't bite your lip babe... tehehe
rt
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And mine in turn. ;)
Oh, and you may find yourself breathing through a tube if you don't bite your lip babe... tehehe
rt
huh? I was talking about myself! You take my breath away, babe! LOL ;)
Well, I'm pretty short for breath on cam, for sure ;D
How about, bite my lip for me and I'll consider shutting up! :o
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huh? I was talking about myself! You take my breath away, babe! LOL ;)
Well, I'm pretty short for breath on cam, for sure ;D
How about, bite my lip for me and I'll consider shutting up! :o
Oh, sorry, could have sworn you were making allusions but I guess that's just not like you. Yep, I'm your own personal masked hero. Wait, that sounds familiar...?
Thanks for the compliment babe... And I was talking about you, didn't you know? :-*
Short for breath on the cam, eh, can't say I didn't notice. It's all that chain (cigarette) smoking you subject yourself to...
rt ;D
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All I have to say about the overhyped, over conspiracy theoried, "must-see most awaited film of the year" is...
(play me)
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\ /
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All I have to say about the overhyped, over conspiracy theoried, "must-see most awaited film of the year" is...
(play me)
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\ /
Yeah, Phil, for some reason there's a little sadistic pleasure to be had in this belllyflop. :laugh:
Everyone, play me...too. lol
rt
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Well, although it's a critical bust, it remains to be seen how it'll affect the box office, especially in it's first weekend. I read somewhere that the book has been selling better than ever, and there's still a lot of anticipation for the film. It's just too bad that Ron Howard seems to have ruined it.
Juan
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Well, although it's a critical bust, it remains to be seen how it'll affect the box office, especially in it's first weekend. I read somewhere that the book has been selling better than ever, and there's still a lot of anticipation for the film. It's just too bad that Ron Howard seems to have ruined it.
Juan
I think despite the critical like or dislike it will open big....lots of people expecting between 80-100 million...
It'll open big because of the controversy and because of Tom Hanks....
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Yeah, there were those estimates that it would open bigger than Spiderman or something. That looks unlikely now with the review, but it will probably still do well it's first weekend. If I'm bored I will probably see it, but I haven't gone to a Ron Howard movie since I think Apollo 13. I think.
Juan
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Yeah, there were those estimates that it would open bigger than Spiderman or something. That looks unlikely now with the review, but it will probably still do well it's first weekend. If I'm bored I will probably see it, but I haven't gone to a Ron Howard movie since I think Apollo 13. I think.
Juan
Yep.....bets were 4/1 or something like that saying it would gross 120 million this weekend beating Spidermans 114 million and 2/1 saying that it will gross 100 million...
So the reviews might damper that a little but it will still be big!
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Oh, sorry, could have sworn you were making allusions but I guess that's just not like you. Yep, I'm your own personal masked hero. Wait, that sounds familiar...?
Thanks for the compliment babe... And I was talking about you, didn't you know? :-*
Short for breath on the cam, eh, can't say I didn't notice. It's all that chain (cigarette) smoking you subject yourself to...
rt ;D
Eye nose who you were talking about! ;) Smoking? I haven't smoked a cigarette in my life, you know that! Other things, yes, but not a cigarette. ;D
Everyone, play me...too. lol
*raises my hand* Oh, I will, I will!! :o
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Watched the news on TV last night about the critics' reactions in Cannes to this film... Apparently they hated it. They laughed at some point when it was NOT meant to be funny. I haven't read the book, didn't want to, but was wondering whether I'd go see it, what with all the hype. So it's overhyped then.
I'll keep my money to go and watch "Transamerica" instead, which has just been released here. AND maybe go back to see "C.R.A.Z.Y", which unfortunately is going to go unnoticed with DA VINCI coming out at the same time.
Da Vinci C overhyped and bad. C.R.A.Z.Y=no hype, and excellent!
Life (or the world of movies) is unfair.
rt, have you seen C.R.A.Z.Y? (Not being released in the States, but still, since you are in the know...)
If you really want to know about the Da Vinci Code mystery, read The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln. It's the book Dan Brown took the idea from (the authors even sued him for plagiarism but lost). It's much better actually, more interesting than Dan Brown's but it's not a novel, it's an investigation they made on the subject. I'm sure you can find it at any library or book store in France. BTW there's a lot about France in that book.
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ROFLOL :laugh: I think ya'all spent way too much time on that NC-17 thread :laugh:
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ROFLOL :laugh: I think ya'all spent way too much time on that NC-17 thread :laugh:
Oh Vic, you know us too well.
At the mercy of another legitimate thread we're gettin it all out of our collective systems..... again.... ;D
rt
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Well, I'm going to ignore the criticism out of Cannes (who incidentally turned down BBM last year - no accounting for taste) as the movie was filmed in Paris and France and they are French. Go figure. ;D
Ebert liked it, apparently.
Anywho, the book wasn't that good to begin with, so the movie needed a lot stronger and more consistent director than Ron Howard ('A Beautiful Mind' versus 'Backdraft') as Ron can get schmaltzy and melodramatic.
However, the issue at the heart of the book is what I'm going for, it's certainly not for any 'chemistry' between the two stars which I gave up on the second I heard Tom Hanks was cast.
Tom Hanks + mullet = the "Indiana Jones" of cryptography? :P
What were they smokin'? O0
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I think I'll probably still go see it this weekend.. I'm intriuged by it!
if only to come on here and say to rt - wow! I see what you mean! that was bad!
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got my girls....
*blush* Awwww... never thought I'd see the day where THOSE words would cross your lips, lover... ;D
Sheyne, my one and... whoops, damn, can't use that one anymore... Anyway, yeah, cross me babe and you'll hear my Oy Oy Oy coming faster than you can get your bum to the Virgin Blue terminal at Brisbane Airport....
Uhhh, yeah. So here and toootally waiting..
*sheyne sits in great coffee lounge at Virgin Blue waiting for the Arrivals call from - *
*shuts mouth in time* ;D
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Yep.....bets were 4/1 or something like that saying it would gross 120 million this weekend beating Spidermans 114 million and 2/1 saying that it will gross 100 million...
So the reviews might damper that a little but it will still be big!
Yes. And then it will have the worst second weekend in history when everyone tells two friends how much it blew.
My prediction: 4 weeks. Good-bye.
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Yes. And then it will have the worst second weekend in history when everyone tells two friends how much it blew.
My prediction: 4 weeks. Good-bye.
Barb, I just love that -- bye, indeed. LOL.
rt
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Well the pundits are certainly enjoying it...one way or the other
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Well the pundits are certainly enjoying it...one way or the other
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ROFLOL
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Sorry guys could not resist! :laugh:
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Yes. And then it will have the worst second weekend in history when everyone tells two friends how much it blew.
My prediction: 4 weeks. Good-bye.
Yes but in that 4 weeks it will gross more then any other film has this year....critics or no critics this film is still gonna make buckets full of money...
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Yes but in that 4 weeks it will gross more then any other film has this year....critics or no critics this film is still gonna make buckets full of money...
And that is a rather sad commentary in my book. Truthfully, since when has box office mattered to anyone interested in quality films? It's more an issue of the rapidly descending quality of American movies that cannot stand up to their Emperor's New Clothes studio hype, and this one fits that bill.
In a case like this, the money may rake itself in initially but then the film will turn audiences off, and the end result is that this is exactly why attendance is down at the movies these days--people are less and less satisfied by the product, and with increasing ticket prices, they feel burned.
Why spend twenty bucks on a movie like this when you could use that money to buy a DVD of a quality film you love?
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And that is a rather sad commentary in my book. Truthfully, since when has box office mattered to anyone interested in quality films? It's more an issue of the rapidly descending quality of American movies that cannot stand up to their Emperor's New Clothes studio hype, and this one fits that bill.
In a case like this, the money may rake itself in initially but then the film will turn audiences off, and the end result is that this is exactly why attendance is down at the movies these days--people are less and less excited by the product, and with increasing ticket prices, they feel burned.
Why spend twenty bucks on a movie like this when you could use that money to buy a DVD of a quality film you love?
Well in my profession the box office matters A LOT! But I agree...movies are made for money these days...and often times (well a lot of the times) they lack quality...but then again thats what a blockbuster is right...these days at least LOL
But I liked the movie so...I saw it in the theater and will buy the DVD too....LOL
I understand your point though and agree... :)
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USA Today trashed it this morning with two stars and said they turned the novel into plodding nonsense, with an annoying soundtrack to boot. They were also not impressed with Tom Hanks in this, and Ron Howard is no longer the golden boy.
Muhahahaha... take it down more pegs.
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USA Today trashed it this morning with two stars and said they turned the novel into plodding nonsense, with an annoying soundtrack to boot. They were also not impressed with Tom Hanks in this, and Ron Howard is no longer the golden boy.
Muhahahaha... take it down more pegs.
Yeah well its definetely NOT Tom Hanks' greatest performance.....not by a long shot...
And Ron Howard is ok....but probably wasn't a strong enough director to bring it to life...but I enjoyed it nonetheless...
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USA Today trashed it this morning with two stars and said they turned the novel into plodding nonsense, with an annoying soundtrack to boot. They were also not impressed with Tom Hanks in this, and Ron Howard is no longer the golden boy.
Muhahahaha... take it down more pegs.
Yes, how the mighty have been falling these days --- first Cruise's rep takes a beating and his status as worldwide box office king now seems in question, and the glory days behind. And now Howard and Hanks. Well, we'll see how the receipts tally up...
Hoping for a "fell far short" declaration by Sunday evening.
rt
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Yes, how the mighty have been falling these days --- first Cruise's rep takes a beating and his status as worldwide box office king now seems in question, and the glory days behind. And now Howard and Hanks. Well, we'll see how the receipts tally up...
Hoping for a "fell far short" declaration by Sunday evening.
rt
OT: I think that Tom Cruise's interesting year with the media damaged his celebrity big time.....I personally don't see MI:3 grossing more the Ice Age 2 (190 mil)....which is a little upsetting considering its Tom Cruise...and MI:3 was definetely better then the first two (particularly the second)....again IMO!
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Why spend twenty bucks on a movie like this when you could use that money to buy a DVD of a quality film you love?
...Or 60 bucks on three DVD copies of the same quality film you love (so you can have one to lend out, and one as an emergency back-up should the other one fail)?
;)
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...Or 60 bucks on three DVD copies of the same quality film you love (so you can have one to lend out, and one as an emergency back-up should the other one fail)?
;)
Did anyone else do that with BBM? LOL
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HAHAHAHA
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...Or 60 bucks on three DVD copies of the same quality film you love (so you can have one to lend out, and one as an emergency back-up should the other one fail)?
;)
Barb, have you been sneaking into my (1400+) DVD library?
I have two of that particular title out on loan right now. ;D
rt
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Barb, have you been sneaking into my (1400+) DVD library?
I have two of that particular title out on loan right now. ;D
Interesting... I have two of same out on loan right now, myself. (And I'm gettin' a little tired of waiting for those two boneheads to *finally* watch it - one's had it for a month, and the other for a couple of weeks.)
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I'm disappointed that you say that, RTP. I really REALLY liked the book. In fact, I've read it 3 times. I was hoping the movie was going to be as great.
On a side note, I love how Brokeback seems like our lover. If we are talking about a movie we really like, it seems the majority of us say "I really liked this movie, I mean it's not as good as Brokeback, but it was good" as if our movie will feel rejected if we happen to like another movie. I might be rambling, I don't know. I'm real tired.
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Just got back from watching 'DaVinci' and it was OK. Wasn't great cinema, wasn't even very good cinema, but it wasn't a stinker either.
It was slow and overlong, but never got boring.
Acting was good all the way around, but Sir Ian makes everyone else look like a piker.
I did get 'Jesus'd on the way in. Some theological Christian group was 'god blessing' everyone and handing out pamphlets to anyone going into the theater.
It wasn't a pray-in or a protest, just a Christian 'presence' I guess.
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"The Da Vinci Code" is a fictional novel. While it is in error about some things in regard to Jesus and his sexuality, from what I understand
Heh, that's one of the main points of contention. Historically, there is doubt that Jesus ever existed at all, so to have criticism about the book that it is 'in error' about Jesus' supposed life really means that what the book does is go against what the church has always taught about Jesus.
it presents facts about what the Roman Catholic Church has been doing for at least a thousand years.
Yep. The article that you posted said it well in that as an organization consolidiating and holding onto power by control and propaganda, the RCC is no more guilty of atrocities than any other such organization.
The difference, however, and it is vast, is that in doing so, the RCC went against its very foundations with tragic consequences for millions.
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On a side note, I love how Brokeback seems like our lover. If we are talking about a movie we really like, it seems the majority of us say "I really liked this movie, I mean it's not as good as Brokeback, but it was good" as if our movie will feel rejected if we happen to like another movie.
Well I'm not at all surprised by this. We are, aren't we on a website with people who were deeply affected by this ONE movie - the masterpiece - and even if some others can't/don't see it it yet, WE all know that Brokeback Mountain is the best movie ever made! So to admit to liking, even loving other movies will for ever (well at least until the next one comes around) have to take a much lower appreciation level in our collective admiration. Otherwise, we'd move on to a different site that would elevate that other movie to superstardom.
With regards to lending DVD's out - I'm guilty of having two extra copies too - they're finally back (both of them came back yesterday) after being gone for the better part of two weeks! ;)
DaVinci? - read the book, found it an easier read than Harry Potter, not impressed at all - the critics have spoken -- I'n not going to see it. (well maybe before I see "Crash", but I'm not going to go looking for it!) because... in my book ...
quality does matter
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Oh, Thomas, the disciple, doubted that Jesus rose from the dead, too.
The scholarly and other skeptics these days don't doubt that he rose from the dead, they doubt he existed at all.
Just wanted to clarify that point.
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Well it had the biggest Friday of the year pullin in 30 million...my estimate is between 80-90 million total for the weekend...
http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/ (http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/)
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Wow, interesting. That's the biggest Friday gross so far this year? I wonder if it'll have good or bad word of mouth. I'm probably gonna see it in a couple hours.
Juan
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Well it had the biggest Friday of the year pullin in 30 million...my estimate is between 80-90 million total for the weekend...
http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/ (http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/)
Well what can be done about this? All it indicates is a sign that there is a built-in audience. Sorry the film doesn't deliver but then few films today do, and when there are great small films out there that nobody sees, lodged silently in art-house cinemas on one-week runs, and everybody runs to this dreck, it makes me....depressed.
rt
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Wow, interesting. That's the biggest Friday gross so far this year? I wonder if it'll have good or bad word of mouth. I'm probably gonna see it in a couple hours.
Juan
Yep the biggest opening day this year and the 12th biggest in history...
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/days/?page=open&p.htm (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/days/?page=open&p.htm)
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Well what can be done about this? All it indicates is a sign that there is a built-in audience. Sorry the film doesn't deliver but then few films today do, and when there are great small films out there that nobody sees, lodged silently in art-house cinemas on one-week runs, and everybody runs to this dreck, it makes me....depressed.
You nailed it dead on.
Also, the opening weekend doesn't say much anymore. Let's see if it falls off a cliff by next weekend. Word of mouth means a lot at $9+ a ticket.
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You nailed it dead on.
Also, the opening weekend doesn't say much anymore. Let's see if it falls off a cliff by next weekend. Word of mouth means a lot at $9+ a ticket.
$9? Where ever you're goin your gettin ripped...
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$9? Where ever you're goin your gettin ripped...
Here in Canada the only theatre that offers tickets for less than $12.50 for new showings - are the matinees - and they're only available on weekends - at least here in Toronto. The canadian dollar is only worth 10% less than the american $ now! - so your costs of $9 sounds cheap compared to mine.
Ps - for BBM, I managed to see it about 10 times @ matinee prices most of the time.
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They're $9.00 for evening showtimes here in South Florida, too, and $7.75 for matinees. Pretty much the going rate everywhere down here.
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$9? Where ever you're goin your gettin ripped...
Actually it's 10.00 here.....
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Actually it's 10.00 here.....
Wow...thats amazing...
$6.50 for evening shows here and $5 for matinee...
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All it indicates is a sign that there is a built-in audience.
E*X*A*C*T*L*Y all those people who loved the novel (and believe me they are legion) and act as though it is fact instead of fiction will flock to see it in the next week. Opening BO is going to be huge just because of this...I predict matinees next week will be strong as well
$9? Where ever you're goin your gettin ripped...
Here in Canada the only theatre that offers tickets for less than $12.50 for new showings - are the matinees - and they're only available on weekends - at least here in Toronto. The canadian dollar is only worth 10% less than the american $ nowThey're $9.00 for evening showtimes here in South Florida, too, and $7.75 for matinees. Pretty much the going rate everywhere down here.
Actually it's 10.00 here.....
Well here in sunny and warm ;) San Diego County...It's $9 in the evening and $7 for matinees unless you're a card carrying student a senior or a member of the armed forces in uniform then it's $5.75 for both
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Okay, I have decided that we are getting thoroughly ripped off here in Oz. The cheapest you'll get a movie for at my local theatre is $8.00 (seniors card holder). The cheapest I'LL ever get a movie at my local theatre is $10.00 and that's only if I go between 10am - 4pm Mon - Fri (which I can't do cause I work) and the price I pay to a see a movie ordinarily??? $13.50.
Humph, if you venture into the city to catch one, is $15.00.
:o
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Just read an article in my favourite (French) newspaper, a satirical paper. I haven't read the DV code, haven't seen the film, and don't intend to do neither. But I think I am after all grateful for their existence and huge success, if only because the Vatican and its clowns are sh*tting themselves.
Apparently, they are asking all 'good Christians' not to sit and turn the other cheek, but to retaliate. (Isn't it funny how the Catholic church, like any other, will forget what they preach, when their power seems to be threatened? Just like when they burnt down cinemas in France and Germany, maybe elsewhere too, when Scorsese's "Last Temptation of Christ" was shown).
They are alarmed to hear that polls in the US and France show that christians are beginning to doubt the Catholic faith because of that story. So now, in the name of faith, the RCC is asking Christians NOT to believe that story!
Well, at least they get a taste of what atheists feel when they say the Bible and the Gospels are just nice works of fiction that do not need to be believed!
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Hmmm--reading this is giving me an odd IMDb BbM deja vu...
O0
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Hmmm--reading this is giving me an odd IMDb BbM deja vu...
O0
Why is that Ruby?
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$77 million weekend....the biggest opening so far this year and the 13th highest ever!
It also made $147 million overseas....
Doing pretty good despite the critical like or dislike....but as you said...next weekend will be the real judge...there is absolutely no way that it will come in #1 with X-3 opening but it will easily squeeze in #2....so we'll see...
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$77 million weekend....the biggest opening so far this year and the 13th highest ever!
It also made $147 million overseas....
Doing pretty good despite the critical like or dislike....but as you said...next weekend will be the real judge...there is absolutely no way that it will come in #1 with X-3 opening but it will easily squeeze in #2....so we'll see...
Doesn't surprise me a bit. Bet there's a lot of butt shifting happening in those seats and queries of "how long is this anyway?" by the midpoint. Guess this is one film where you can understandably turn the other cheek and ignore the audience snoring and heavy sighs.
True, the trailer for X is stunning but let's not forget the huge YUCK factor, and we all know what that is: Brett. Ratner.
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Doesn't surprise me a bit. Bet there's a lot of butt shifting happening in those seats and queries of "how long is this anyway?" by the midpoint.
Ture, the trailer for X is stunning but let's not forget the huge YUCK factor, and well know what that is. Brett. Ratner.
We did have one person that wanted a refund for religious reasons.....didn't give it to them but they tried....but other then that we didn't have any complaints...we'll see I suppose...
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I likied, did not love, the novel, and was pleasantly surprised by the movie--since it got really horrible reviews. $8 for SENIOR CITIZENS! What a ripoff!
But it was half-an-hour before it started, so I had time to start a story in a tiny, tiny notebook..."'Trey, you got that all wring," Bobby said, as he stood up, looking around the library to make sure he wouldn't disturb anyone. "It's like this," he said, pleasantly: then, he screamed in a whisper, silently pounding his fist rhythmically on the table: "Your FATHER was a FUCKIN' FAGGOT," his mouth reduced to a slit, his eyes squinting malevolently into Trey's.'"
Not bad for in the dark, waiting for Da Vinci...
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I likied, did not love, the novel, and was pleasantly surprised by the movie--since it got really horrible reviews. $8 for SENIOR CITIZENS! What a ripoff!
But it was half-an-hour before it started, so I had time to start a story in a tiny, tiny notebook..."'Tray, you go that all wring," Bobby said, as he stood up, looking around the library to make sure he wouldn't disturb anyone. "It's like this," he said, pleasantly: then, he screamed in a whisper, silently pounding his fist rhythmically on the table: "Your FATHER was a FUCKIN' FAGGOT!," his mouth reduced to a slit, his eyes squinting malevolently into Tray's.'"
Not bad for in the dark, waiting for Da Vinci...
My brother loved it.....has seen it twice already...
Just a matter of opinion and your personal taste...
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No, the excellence of a movie is NOT JUST a matter of your personal taste...I think Hanks was a bit miscast...I dunno, I think a brilliant guy should look at least a LITTLE briliant. The girl was perfect.I meant to listen for the phrase A"the indecent docent," but I forgot..is it really in the movie" I'm a docent....
Ian M was very very good...
The story can all be bullsahit, but I think it's on to something in the general idea that sex used to be O.K. till organized Christianity came along...anyone else?
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I think it's on to something in the general idea that sex used to be O.K. till organized Christianity came along...anyone else?
Totally agree with this, Julie!
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The story can all be bullsahit, but I think it's on to something in the general idea that sex used to be O.K. till organized Christianity came along...anyone else?
Yep I agree...
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I'm certainly not trying to be combative here but there's more to it than than personal taste, at least in my book. It is possible to take this story and infuse it with energy and excitment, to bring it to life, to make its complex codes and discussions palatable to the audience's ear and to invite us to be engrosssed in an intelligent mystery.
But this time I believe the director failed to do that. Guess that's just my opinion as well but to me there is a certain "baseline" of what consititues a capable film and this one fell below that because it failed to make its narrative accessible and its characters empathetic. On the whole it is lifeless and laughable, weighed down by a high-minded tone that really betrayed the material, which to me is B-movie-ish, campy even at times, and should have been more fun or sinister or at least self-aware of its wild suppositions.
If then, by the same token, liking Brokeback is a matter of personal taste, then we must accept that if people don't like it that it is not a reflection of the film's quality in the opposite direction--just a matter of personal taste.
But that's just me.
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No, the excellence of a movie is NOT JUST a matter of your personal taste...I think Hanks was a bit miscast...I dunno, I think a brilliant guy should look at least a LITTLE briliant. The girl was perfect.I meant to listen for the phrase A"the indecent docent," but I forgot..is it really in the movie" I'm a docent....
Ian M was very very good...
The story can all be bullsahit, but I think it's on to something in the general idea that sex used to be O.K. till organized Christianity came along...anyone else?
The book/movie raised excellent points, the main point is that people should read more of what they claim to believe. So many people still believe Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. Even the Catholic Church changed their collective minds about that claim, but many many people haven't heard about it. This is covered - however eye-blinkingly fast - in the movie. Which can only be good news.
It also brought up the sacredness of women and how sex can be a liberating and holy act - the heiros gamos was shown only briefly in the movie - but Hollywood and the Puritanism of America stepped in again.
After much thought, I imagine they cast fatherly/neutral Tom Hanks instead of some stud muffin like Hugh Jackman/Clive Owen in order to protect the Sophie character from any hint of lust which is quite obvious in the book.
Which considering her pedigree might have been a little too much for some people to take.
I don't agree that one must LOOK intelligent. Many people have a perpetual 'd'oh' expression on their faces, but it doesn't make them idiots.
Oh and I think Memorial Day Weekend in the States will be blockbuster for this movie. After that, we shall see how it does boxoffice wise on its own merits. After all, I hardly think the fanboy sect is the demographic aimed for for this movie.
Weighing in on the 'taste' thing. Everything is relative. After all, if you look throughout history, things that were tasteful and meaningful centuries ago, hardly carry the same feelings these days. Movies thought 'Best Picture' 20-30 years ago are laughed at now. [shrugs]
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Well I guess what I mean by personal taste is its a matter of opinion....my wife didn't like the movie not because of the quality of the film but because it was not her kind of movie...she's more the Notebook kinda person....and that right there is a personal taste...
Now I understand that you didn't like the movie but that is your personal opinion and I respect the hell out of that...I for one did enjoy the movie - granted I agree its definetely not what it could have been had there been a stronger director and maybe even a stronger lead actor attached but there wasn't....and I think they made the best out of the situation....again that is JMO...
I guess I think that it could have been a LOT worst...
But IMO it is a matter of personal taste....virtually everything is these days....and just because it didn't suit your taste doesn't mean that it didn't suit others....that was my only point...
We're on a disagreeing streak here and thats a good thing....I enjoy hearing others opinions... :)
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Mona Lisa's smiling at the vast millions The Da Vinci Code reaped out of the gate as the publishing phenomenon translated into a theatrical blockbuster.
The Da Vinci Code divined an estimated $77 million from 3,735 locations, the second biggest opening weekend ever among adult-geared pictures behind The Passion of the Christ and 13th overall. Sony's $125 million adaptation of the Dan Brown novel that reportedly sold nearly 60 million copies worldwide handily marked personal best debuts for director Ron Howard and star Tom Hanks.
On the global front, The Da Vinci Code played nearly everywhere and claimed the highest-grossing foreign start in history, raking in $147 million since Wednesday to narrowly surpass Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith's $145.5 million from the same period last year.
From BoxOfficeMojo
Lots of people saw this film....even surpassed my expectations...I thought Juan might be interested in this...
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Well I guess what I mean by personal taste is its a matter of opinion....my wife didn't like the movie not because of the quality of the film but because it was not her kind of movie...she's more the Notebook kinda person....and that right there is a personal taste...
Now I understand that you didn't like the movie but that is your personal opinion and I respect the hell out of that...I for one did enjoy the movie - granted I agree its definetely not what it could have been had there been a stronger director and maybe even a stronger lead actor attached but there wasn't....and I think they made the best out of the situation....again that is JMO...
I guess I think that it could have been a LOT worst...
But IMO it is a matter of personal taste....virtually everything is these days....and just because it didn't suit your taste doesn't mean that it didn't suit others....that was my only point...
We're on a disagreeing streak here and thats a good thing....I enjoy hearing others opinions... :)
Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on this because what I'm saying has little to do with my individual taste, a component that doesn't enter into my film criticism. What I am talking about has to do with the set of criteria that measures a capable film--script that makes sense, acting that is good, cinemtography that is appropriate to the material, editing that moves the film along--all of these things that coalesce into what makes good filmmaking. In this regard The Da Vinci Code is a failure.
Now I have liked many a poorly made film in my time from Dune to Myra Breckinridge to Showgirls to, it pains me to say it, Alexander, and have scores of them in my DVD collection to prove it. I fully recognize that they are poorly directed, badly shot or acted, otherwise less than capable in many ways and that anyone objectively critiquing them can rightfully call them the spades that they are. However, I still like them with that caveat. But I am under no delusion that any of them are "good" films in any way just because I happen to have found some personal window into them that affords me fun.
I posted on this subject recently (maybe on this thread even) about the role of a film critic and the questions to ask. Personal taste may enter into evaluating the merits of the next American Idol or U.S. president but it doesn't usually apply when you are objectively critiquing a film, boxing match or an Olympic skating competition.
If it does, then we have no way whatsoever of establishing any quality standards or best practices. I mean, is there a case to be made that Citizen Kane is a bad film if for some reason I don't like B&W films? Or that Not Another Teen Movie should have gotten an Oscar (not that those hold any weight) if I somehow got excited by Chris Evans and liked the soundtrack?
Sorry to go on here but this is a very important topic in my life and more so as time goes on, and so to be fair in our judging we should always ask:
1. What did the director intend to do?
2. And how well did he do it?
I may not personally, in my taste, be up for a documentary on the mating habits of skunks, but if someone makes one that blows me away in its approach and they got exactly what they wanted with their end product, then maybe the subject did not appeal to my taste but I'll be the first to trumpet how well done it is while making that very distinction. At the same time, I cannot in good conscience give Alexander a full pass just because I dearly like Colin Farrell, as much as he blinded me to that film's deeper flaws with his endearingly naive and too large performance.
rt
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I posted about this recently (maybe on this thread even) about the role of a film critic and the questions to ask. Personal taste may enter into picking the next American Idol or U.S. president but it doesn't usually apply when you are critiquing a film, boxing match or an Olympic skating match.
Ok thats where we're differing here....because I am not critiquing the film....and am simply saying that I enjoyed it...I'm not a critic and have no desire to be...but I did enjoy the film for what it was whether or not it was well made or if the director achieved what he set out to do...and that is personal taste and opinion. Honestly I don't care if it was well made at this particular point....all I care is that is was enjoyable...and to me it was! ;D
Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on this
And there is nothing wrong with that! :)
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Okay.. *jumps into water waist deep and its freezing* ;)
Yes, I spose there are different ways of looking at a film. A reviewer will be looking for very different things to somebody who's just dragged their wife along on a Saturday night..
But yeah, it CAN come down to personal taste, but whichever way you look at it, it ALWAYS comes down to the skill of the film-makers!!! Always! For example, I shudder - physically shudder - at the thought of Brokeback Mountain filmed in the hands of anybody else but Ang Lee. Okay, we don't have the same movie anymore, do we?
I admit I was VERY uneasy when I heard that Ron Howard was at the helm of DaVinci code. My first thought was "okay, we're now going to have a film that bypasses ANY controversy and keeps everybody happy; no risks will get taken, nothing bad or untoward will be shown". Which, by the sounds of it, is exactly what we got. Dull, dull, dull.
About the cleverest thing a reviewer here in Brisbane did was to arrange her entire review so that the first letter of each paragraph ended up spelling "It Was Really Boring".
And was it just a rumour or did they change the part in the story about Jacques being Sophie's grandfather??
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Well I haven't read the book but he turns out likely not to be her grandfather, just her protector and Priory leader. In a cliche and pat moment at the end we get a grandmother trotted out in a nice sweater, as if we're supposed to be moved by this family reunification when we know nothing about Sophie much other than her involvement in this mystery and a few too-stylized and bungled flashbacks.
I was less interested in discovering the heir to the the bloodline than I was in finding some humanity in the picture.
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Okay.. *jumps into water waist deep and its freezing* ;)
Yes, I spose there are different ways of looking at a film. A reviewer will be looking for very different things to somebody who's just dragged their wife along on a Saturday night..
But yeah, it CAN come down to personal taste, but whichever way you look at it, it ALWAYS comes down to the skill of the film-makers!!! Always! For example, I shudder - physically shudder - at the thought of Brokeback Mountain filmed in the hands of anybody else but Ang Lee. Okay, we don't have the same movie anymore, do we?
I admit I was VERY uneasy when I heard that Ron Howard was at the helm of DaVinci code. My first thought was "okay, we're now going to have a film that bypasses ANY controversy and keeps everybody happy; no risks will get taken, nothing bad or untoward will be shown". Which, by the sounds of it, is exactly what we got. Dull, dull, dull.
About the cleverest thing a reviewer here in Brisbane did was to arrange her entire review so that the first letter of each paragraph ended up spelling "It Was Really Boring".
And was it just a rumour or did they change the part in the story about Jacques being Sophie's grandfather??
Very true Sheyne! But my point is just pure enjoyment! And sometimes at least IMO the worst made films can be the most enjoyable....
I am not talkin about quality....I'm talkin about entertainment....and yes I agree 100% that the quality of Da Vinci was not very good at all....no argument there and it could have been MUCH better.....but I personally WAS entertained by it for what it was....
Again IMO blockbuster films like this aren't made for quality anymore anyways....they're made for money! Which is sad but true...JMO!
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I am not talkin about quality....I'm talkin about entertainment....
Never the twain shall meet?
Refuse to believe it.
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Never the twain shall meet?
Refuse to believe it.
Well again we'll have to agree to disagree! :)
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Well again we'll have to agree to disagree! :)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
Collateral
The Bourne Identity
Mission Impossible III
The Matrix
Legally Blonde
Million Dollar Baby
Erin Brockovich
Sin City
King Kong
Forrest Gump
Contact
Moulin Rouge
Titanic
All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry.
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Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
Collateral
Mission Impossible III
Legally Blonde
Sin City
King Kong
Forrest Gump
Contact
Moulin Rouge
Titanic
All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry.
Yes but to me only 3 of those films were enjoyable....so again we'll have to agree to disagree... :)
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Yes but to me only 3 of those films were enjoyable....so again we'll have to agree to disagree... :)
Wow, I don't get you ennis del mar, I really don't.
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I am not talkin about quality....I'm talkin about entertainment....
It's sad really. Quality & Entertainment. They should be friends. They're both so important. I'm such a good matchmaker, perhaps I should do something about it ;D
PS. I liked just about all of those films. Good Quality + Entertaining, IMO..
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Wow, I don't get you ennis del mar, I really don't.
And thats alright! :)
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It's sad really. Quality & Entertainment. They should be friends. They're both so important. I'm such a good matchmaker, perhaps I should do something about it ;D
PS. I liked just about all of those films. Good Quality + Entertaining, IMO..
And in your post I detect a none-too-thinly-veiled reference to hijacking another innocent thread babe...
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It's sad really. Quality & Entertainment. They should be friends. They're both so important. I'm such a good matchmaker, perhaps I should do something about it ;D
I agree....but IMO that rarely happens! I can think of dozens of high quality films that bored me to tears....Sideways, Closer, Capote, The Aviator...and I can go on...that doesn't always happen hence BBM, Munich, A History of Violence, Million Dollar Baby (IMO), United 93 etc....
But I can also think of some low quality films that I loved....take The Day After Tomorrow for example...I don't know if that was low quality...but it was definetely not the most critically acclaimed film of all time and was pretty damn unrealistic! But I loved it! Or the Scary Movie series....not the best quality films of all time either but I loved em...as embarassing as that sounds. Eight Below was also not the highest quality film...poor performances IMO but its also one of my favorites this year...
So I guess me and high quality films/critics don't always see eye to eye....and there is nothing wrong with that!
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You said "All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry." Well WE may have to agree to disagree...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Like it's predecessors, good not great film, has a built in audience all hyped up and ready to go years before the film hits the market
Collateral disappointed since Collateral seems to be in many ways a pale carbon copy of Heat, Michael Mann's previous film..just a rehash of preditory and prey again.
The Bourne Identity Surprisingly good, but then how far wrong can you go with Robert Ludlum
Mission Impossible III I haven't seen it but the teenage boys are sure raving about it....Hmmmm
The Matrix Sorry, confusing, convoluted seemed more suited to a video game or comic book
Legally Blonde spare me the whole series blonde movies makes Rees's I'm just trying to make a difference Oscar speech see disingeneous
Million Dollar Baby Excellent first rate film
Erin Brockovich Julia doing what Julia does best..kick ass story the fact that it's based in reality only enhanced that
Sin City I can go the rest of my life and never see this film again
King Kong Excellent effect, probably the best filmed version, but too long and ponderous
Forrest Gump A beautiful fable for now and the future
Contacttoughness and sensitivity, symbolism and passion, and the fact that it is a rare science fiction film, a gem which was released in a time where scientific intelligence in film has become a nothing short of a joke
Moulin Rouge T*R*A*S*H two hours of my life I will never get back for this..even Heath and Jake could not have save this tripe
Titanic Timeless, moving, and epic inspite of Leonardo DiCaprio
My point is we could probably go on all night like this, turning this into a tit for tat example of one-upmanship. Chris has made a very valid point about the marketability of film in our moderan society. Da Vinci code's $77 million weekend numbers back him up. Others have made their points about the more esoteric points of film as art. But Hollywood does NOT let loose the money to make ART unless a few Blockbusters come along to make big bucks first. SO thank god for films like Da Vinci code. The book fans will love it, Hollywood will rake in the cash and WE may get another BRILLANT film like Brokeback because of it.
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And in your post I detect a none-too-thinly-veiled reference to hijacking another innocent thread babe...
WHAT?? Mandy, a matchmaker??
*spanks rt on the wrist*
Cannot imagine how you came to such a conclusion, rt...
*rubs rt's wrist*
;D
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You said "All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry." Well WE may have to agree to disagree...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Like it's predecessors, good not great film, has a built in audience all hyped up and ready to go years before the film hits the market
Collateral disappointed since Collateral seems to be in many ways a pale carbon copy of Heat, Michael Mann's previous film..just a rehash of preditory and prey again.
The Bourne Identity Surprisingly good, but then how far wrong can you go with Robert Ludlum
Mission Impossible III I haven't seen it but the teenage boys are sure raving about it....Hmmmm
The Matrix Sorry, confusing, convoluted seemed more suited to a video game or comic book
Legally Blonde spare me the whole series blonde movies makes Rees's I'm just trying to make a difference Oscar speech see disingeneous
Million Dollar Baby Excellent first rate film
Erin Brockovich Julia doing what Julia does best..kick ass story the fact that it's based in reality only enhanced that
Sin City I can go the rest of my life and never see this film again
King Kong Excellent effect, probably the best filmed version, but too long and ponderous
Forrest Gump A beautiful fable for now and the future
Contacttoughness and sensitivity, symbolism and passion, and the fact that it is a rare science fiction film, a gem which was released in a time where scientific intelligence in film has become a nothing short of a joke
Moulin Rouge T*R*A*S*H two hours of my life I will never get back for this..even Heath and Jake could not have save this tripe
Titanic Timeless, moving, and epic inspite of Leonardo DiCaprio
My point is we could probably go on all night like this, turning this into a tit for tat example of one-upmanship. Chris has made a very valid point about the marketability of film in our moderan society. Da Vinci code's $77 million weekend numbers back him up. Others have made their points about the more esoteric points of film as art. But Hollywood does NOT let loose the money to make ART unless a few Blockbusters come along to make big bucks first. SO thank god for films like Da Vinci code. The book fans will love it, Hollywood will rake in the cash and WE may get another BRILLANT film like Brokeback because of it.
Well here's hoping it works that way, rather than having some scantily-clad-Jessica-Alba-type tripe financed instead. I'd happily fork out $$ to support a few lemons if we eventually tasted some lemonade!! Brokeback, personally, makes up for all the Rumour Has It's I've seen for about the last 2 years. And I won't be looking for another Brokeback for a while. But eventually.. eventually, I will.
Btw, Vic, what on EARTH is up with you not liking the Matrix???? Cyber Mom is losing her "cool".. :P
;D
Kidding, with hugs, of course..
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Btw, Vic, what on EARTH is up with you not liking the Matrix???? Cyber Mom is losing her "cool".. :P
;D
Kidding, with hugs, of course..
I KNOW, ::) I even sat down with the boys and watched all 3 Matrix films back to back one Satruday with them explaining it to me. I did actaully follow and like the last one..Matrix -Reloaded. Soooooo what can I say...BUt they still think I'm cool coz I like X-Men. LOL
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You have just more than redeemed yourself. ;D
X-Men is the BEST and not only cause of Hugh *purrrr* Jackman..
Which could take us off topic AGAIN: which X-Man would you be and why??? Hmmm..... (i already know I'd be Mystique... I could make myself into Michelle Williams or at the very least, give myself a nicer arse...) ::)
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Well said Vickie
You said "All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry." Well WE may have to agree to disagree
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Like it's predecessors, good not great film, has a built in audience all hyped up and ready to go years before the film hits the market
Agree.
Collateral disappointed since Collateral seems to be in many ways a pale carbon copy of Heat, Michael Mann's previous film..just a rehash of preditory and prey again.
Agree.
The Bourne Identity Surprisingly good, but then how far wrong can you go with Robert Ludlum
Agree.
Mission Impossible III I haven't seen it but the teenage boys are sure raving about it....Hmmmm
That teenaged boys like it may or may not be a good thing.
The Matrix Sorry, confusing, convoluted seemed more suited to a video game or comic book
Heh. It was a comic book. So it pretty much accomplished its purpose.
Legally Blonde spare me the whole series blonde movies makes Rees's I'm just trying to make a difference Oscar speech see disingeneous
Disagree. A surprisingly feminist movie, but it relied too heavily on stereotypes to make its point that one shouldn't rely on stereotypes but that sometimes you can. Yeah, I know.
Erin Brockovich Julia doing what Julia does best..kick ass story the fact that it's based in reality only enhanced that
Um, I agree that it's Julie Roberts doing what she does best. She rarely changes her persona.
Sin City I can go the rest of my life and never see this film again
Another comic book movie that accomplished its purpose.
King Kong Excellent effect, probably the best filmed version, but too long and ponderous
Gag, don't even get me started on KK. That it was filmed with care and quality is beyond question. But it clearly pandered to fanboys of CGI monster games, failed to keep a more mature audience from being bored and the makers of the movie clearly thought they could make a 3 hour epic out of what is essentially a 90 minute monster movie. Less would have been much more here.
Forrest Gump A beautiful fable for now and the future
Agree.
Contacttoughness and sensitivity, symbolism and passion, and the fact that it is a rare science fiction film, a gem which was released in a time where scientific intelligence in film has become a nothing short of a joke
Agree.
Moulin Rouge T*R*A*S*H two hours of my life I will never get back for this..even Heath and Jake could not have save this tripe
Loved this movie. Had its weak spots to be sure, but otherwise very much enjoyed their take on a musical.
Titanic Timeless, moving, and epic inspite of Leonardo DiCaprio
Agree except for the last part. It was all that in spite of the entire love story thing.
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My friend who had an anurism, and spends some time watching soap operas now, says both As the Wiorld Turns and General Hospital now incude prominent gay characters.
I didn't like Titanic very much. There, I've said it and I'm glad. Or West Side Stoiry, or The Sound of Music.
Mid the sagebrush and the cactus,
I'll watch the fellows practice
dropping bombs through the clean desert breeze.
I'll have on my sombrero,
and of course I'll wear a pair orf Levis
over my lead BVDs.
I'll leave the city's rush,
the fancy and the plsuh,
leave the snow and leave the slush
and crowd.
I'll seek the desert's hush
where the scenery is lush
How I long to see that mush
room cloud.
Mid the yucka and the thistles
I'll watch the guided missles
making holes in the...
enough...too much...
.Isn't it AMAZING that we all love "Brokeback Mountain"? I have a list of 50 favorite films, and none of the ones mentioned are on it...
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You said "All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry." Well WE may have to agree to disagree...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Like it's predecessors, good not great film, has a built in audience all hyped up and ready to go years before the film hits the market
Collateral disappointed since Collateral seems to be in many ways a pale carbon copy of Heat, Michael Mann's previous film..just a rehash of preditory and prey again.
The Bourne Identity Surprisingly good, but then how far wrong can you go with Robert Ludlum
Mission Impossible III I haven't seen it but the teenage boys are sure raving about it....Hmmmm
The Matrix Sorry, confusing, convoluted seemed more suited to a video game or comic book
Legally Blonde spare me the whole series blonde movies makes Rees's I'm just trying to make a difference Oscar speech see disingeneous
Million Dollar Baby Excellent first rate film
Erin Brockovich Julia doing what Julia does best..kick ass story the fact that it's based in reality only enhanced that
Sin City I can go the rest of my life and never see this film again
King Kong Excellent effect, probably the best filmed version, but too long and ponderous
Forrest Gump A beautiful fable for now and the future
Contacttoughness and sensitivity, symbolism and passion, and the fact that it is a rare science fiction film, a gem which was released in a time where scientific intelligence in film has become a nothing short of a joke
Moulin Rouge T*R*A*S*H two hours of my life I will never get back for this..even Heath and Jake could not have save this tripe
Titanic Timeless, moving, and epic inspite of Leonardo DiCaprio
My point is we could probably go on all night like this, turning this into a tit for tat example of one-upmanship. Chris has made a very valid point about the marketability of film in our moderan society. Da Vinci code's $77 million weekend numbers back him up. Others have made their points about the more esoteric points of film as art. But Hollywood does NOT let loose the money to make ART unless a few Blockbusters come along to make big bucks first. SO thank god for films like Da Vinci code. The book fans will love it, Hollywood will rake in the cash and WE may get another BRILLANT film like Brokeback because of it.
Ok well since this list has been edited I now enjoyed 5 of them....
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Isabelle:..hope I get this right...
Mourir pour ce qu'on aime
C'est un trop deux effort.
Rough transl: To die for one you love
Is too sweet an effort.
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Sheyne: Out of the X-Men, I'd either be Mystique or Jean Grey, maybe I'd be a non-evil Phoenix ;D
Only 5 days 'til X-Men 3!!!
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Think I can wait...
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Sheyne: Out of the X-Men, I'd either be Mystique or Jean Grey, maybe I'd be a non-evil Phoenix ;D
Only 5 days 'til X-Men 3!!!
I'd wanna be Magneto....don't know why but he's just cool....
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You have just more than redeemed yourself. ;D
X-Men is the BEST and not only cause of Hugh *purrrr* Jackman..
Which could take us off topic AGAIN: which X-Man would you be and why??? Hmmm..... (i already know I'd be Mystique... I could make myself into Michelle Williams or at the very least, give myself a nicer arse...) ::)
I really would like to be the female equivalent of Angel. Love those wings
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You said "All mainstream movies that are hits and have integrity and artistry." Well WE may have to agree to disagree...
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Like it's predecessors, good not great film, has a built in audience all hyped up and ready to go years before the film hits the market
Collateral disappointed since Collateral seems to be in many ways a pale carbon copy of Heat, Michael Mann's previous film..just a rehash of preditory and prey again.
The Bourne Identity Surprisingly good, but then how far wrong can you go with Robert Ludlum
Mission Impossible III I haven't seen it but the teenage boys are sure raving about it....Hmmmm
The Matrix Sorry, confusing, convoluted seemed more suited to a video game or comic book
Legally Blonde spare me the whole series blonde movies makes Rees's I'm just trying to make a difference Oscar speech see disingeneous
Million Dollar Baby Excellent first rate film
Erin Brockovich Julia doing what Julia does best..kick ass story the fact that it's based in reality only enhanced that
Sin City I can go the rest of my life and never see this film again
King Kong Excellent effect, probably the best filmed version, but too long and ponderous
Forrest Gump A beautiful fable for now and the future
Contacttoughness and sensitivity, symbolism and passion, and the fact that it is a rare science fiction film, a gem which was released in a time where scientific intelligence in film has become a nothing short of a joke
Moulin Rouge T*R*A*S*H two hours of my life I will never get back for this..even Heath and Jake could not have save this tripe
Titanic Timeless, moving, and epic inspite of Leonardo DiCaprio
My point is we could probably go on all night like this, turning this into a tit for tat example of one-upmanship. Chris has made a very valid point about the marketability of film in our moderan society. Da Vinci code's $77 million weekend numbers back him up. Others have made their points about the more esoteric points of film as art. But Hollywood does NOT let loose the money to make ART unless a few Blockbusters come along to make big bucks first. SO thank god for films like Da Vinci code. The book fans will love it, Hollywood will rake in the cash and WE may get another BRILLANT film like Brokeback because of it.
Vic, I guess I'll have to respectfully say that the $77 million backs up my assertion that there is a built in audience that will fill seats whether the film is of quality, or in this case, not. As you say I guess we probably could go on all night because my point is getting through to about....no one. It's not tit for tat one upsmanship to debate the idea of art versus commerce and why so many have been somehow programmed to think that ticket sales are the end all be all of an artist's work, which is an idea that really disturbs me. Early on we all railed against those who said that BBM would not be worth its weight because it would not make money, didn't we? It was not this way in the 70s, before the blockbuster began with Star Wars, and studios rightfully gave money to filmmakers and took risks with real actors who were not cookie cutter fabrications designed to appeal to the zoned-out masses.
Box office receipts mean nothing if you're looking for quality movies. I think we all agree we want that, right? Certain remarks on this thread just echo an industry gone creatively bankrupt, where talented actors, directors and writers are chewed up and either spit out or shat out because someone didn't come and fill a seat in the first three days. It's a sorry, sorry state of affairs that this is what so many in the business focus on, and it makes it very, very hard for artists to have their day anymore. The upshot of this type of thinking? People are not cast anymore, not considered bankable and back-burnered until they have no careers left. Look how many actors, Heath Ledger included, Matthew McCounaghey, Colin Farrell, Josh Hartnett, the list goes on and on, who have been the IT guy or the Next Big Thing that wasn't, victims of this hype and then saw their films underperform at the box office until they were stuck on the bottom of a list somewhere?
Here's my take on those few films since we're drilling down to specifics:
Harry Potter and the Goblet -- excellent morph into teen years with new directions, hormones and true excitment -- the first two were kiddie films, the second one poetry, the third one gripping and exciting.
Collateral -- memorably shot and scored, excellent Tom Cruise performance, surprisingly intimate two character connections for a crime film
Mission Impossible 3 -- I'm not a teenager and I loved it three times
The Matrix -- deepthink philosophy disguised as sci-fi, original and thoughtful, inadverdently created its own mythology and that's rare for today's garbage sci-fi
Legally Blonde -- light commercial comedy with a sweet performance in the center, colorful and goodhearted, and I do believe that Reese Witherspoon is this and that acceptace speech really moved me so go figure
Sin City -- pure and perfect art direction, score, performance, hardboiled noir -- shallow? Yes. Beautifully done example of exactly what I meant when I said they got EXACTLY what they were going for.
King Kong -- the effects are not at all what i remember here, rather it's the poetic scenes between Watts (stellar) and Kong himself, the amazing score and mounting, the attention to period detail in New York, the inspired sequence on the ice, the juggling before sunrise on Skull Island, the breathtaking shooting of the silent movie 35 minutes in, wordless, and finally the way she stands on top of the Empire State Building alone and unafraid, being knocked around by the wind.
Moulin Rouge -- an initially bizarre experiment that gives way to something grand and lavish, and moving, wholly unexpected which I think accounts for its Best Pic nom -- pure pageantry and some very cleverly done music, too hyper by half but filled with energy, ideas and color
Well, those were my takes on them anyway.....
Not trying to one up just making my voice heard.
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I liked all of those movies, actually (except Legally Blonde - I haven't seen any of the Legally Blonde films).
I'm a huge Harry Potter fan and I thought Sin City was beautifully done. And Collateral had great acting. Oh, and King Kong is a BEAUTIFUL film. Sorry Vic, agreeing to disagree, I guess!
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Vic, I guess I'll have to respectfully say that the $77 million backs up my assertion that there is a built in audience that will fill seats whether the film is of quality, or in this case, not. As you say I guess we probably could go on all night because my point is getting through to about....no one.
All I’m saying is that without the tripe that drags in the big bucks from it’s built in audience there would be no funds available for the making for the better films. Like them or not it is those cheesy blockbusters that keep the doors open and the investors investing.
It's not tit for tat one upsmanship to debate the idea of art versus commerce and why so many believe have been somehow programmed to think that ticket sales are the end all be all of an artist's work, which is an idea that really disturbs me.
Commercial success should NEVER be the measure of the quality of a performance or a film that is not the point I am trying to make.
Early on we all railed against those who said that BBM would not be worth its weight because it would not make money, didn't we?
Well, there are other films that were almost as good as Brokeback, in my opinion and they vanished long before they ever made the kind of money Brokeback did. Billy Elliott, Oscar and Lucinda,A Walk in the Clouds. Truly, Madly, Deeply, The Mission and The Joy Luck Club spring to mind. I railed against the people who shot these and others down as well
It was not this way in the 70s, before the blockbuster began with Star Wars, and studios rightfully gave money to filmmakers and took risks with real actors who were not cookie cutter fabrications designed to appeal to the zoned-out masses.
My memory of being a teen in the 70’s is the it is the era that spawned the Blockbuster, Airport, Poseiden Adventure, Earthquake, The Towering Inferno….to name a few. Not to mention the shocker of the decade The Exorcist. He;; they even came up with tht damn sensuround sound system that made you feel like you were in the middle of the disaster but bomdarding you wtih sound until the seats shook!
Box office receipts mean nothing if you're looking for quality movies. I think we all agree we want that, right? Certain remarks on this thread just echo an industry gone creatively bankrupt, where talented actors, directors and writers are chewed up and either spit out or shat out because someone didn't come and fill a seat in the first three days. It's a sorry, sorry state of affairs that this is what so many in the business focus on, and it makes it very, very hard for artists to have their day anymore. The upshot of this type of thinking? People are not cast anymore, not considered bankable and back-burnered until they have no careers left. Look how many actors, Heath Ledger included, Matthew McCounaghey, Colin Farrell, Josh Hartnett, the list goes on and on, who have been the IT guy or the Next Big Thing that wasn't, victims of this hype and then saw their films underperform at the box office until they were stuck on the bottom of a list somewhere?
We most certainly do agree that box is no indication of wither or not a film is GOOD. It is only a testament to the power of marketing and the persuasivenss of advertising. Personally I think Hollywood has been creatively bankrupt for years that's why we see the same films recycled again and again. Sad to say as far as the actors go....competition is stiff in their business and today's hot item is tomorrow yesterday's news...it is the nature of celebrity. But the really good actors like Heath Ledger will survive that, he is the Robert Duval/Gene Hackman of his generation and we have not seen the last of him, he is not just another pretty face and he proved that in Brokeback.
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Mandy, get your butt to the nearest shop and buy - not rent - but BUY yourself Legally Blonde. You won't regret it.
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I know Sheyne, you're so cute in that :o lol
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Mandy, get your butt to the nearest shop and buy - not rent - but BUY yourself Legally Blonde. You won't regret it.
I'll see what I can do, Shanice ;)
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As you say I guess we probably could go on all night because my point is getting through to about....no one. It's not tit for tat one upsmanship to debate the idea of art versus commerce and why so many have been somehow programmed to think that ticket sales are the end all be all of an artist's work, which is an idea that really disturbs me. Early on we all railed against those who said that BBM would not be worth its weight because it would not make money, didn't we? It was not this way in the 70s, before the blockbuster began with Star Wars, and studios rightfully gave money to filmmakers and took risks with real actors who were not cookie cutter fabrications designed to appeal to the zoned-out masses.
Box office receipts mean nothing if you're looking for quality movies.
Well, I'm pretty sure I get it, rt, and I agree. Actually, most people must agree that popularity doesn't equal quality. It's just that some make exceptions for their own tastes. Certainly everybody's noticed a zillion examples of things that make tons of money but aren't all that good and vise versa. I'm always a little surprised when things I like ARE popular, if only because so many of my conversations wind up concluding that, well, people are stupid.
But then, I'm stupid too sometimes. For instance, don't tell anyone but I like reading InStyle magazine. Is it the equal of the New Yorker? No. I sometimes enjoy InStyle MORE than certain New Yorker issues, but I wouldn't take InStyle with me into the coffee shop, nor remember what was in it an hour afterward. Another example: don't tell anyone this either, but I've always thought Citizen Kane is kind of boring. Would I argue that means the movie is a piece of crap? No. I assume it's my defiiciency, not the film's. Still another: I thought "Leaving Las Vegas" was really, really well made ... and I was depressed for days afterward and wished I'd never seen it.
There are two different scales: what any one person subjectively likes or doesn't like, and then what is "good" or "bad" in some larger objective sense. Obviously there's disagreement about the first one, but what's tricky is there's disagreement about the second one, too -- it's actually not entirely objective. Roger Ebert -- who, despite discrediting himself in the Crash/Brokeback controversy, is not a total idiot -- gave DaVinci Code three stars, but his was the only good review I've seen. I read so-so reviews of Brokeback from reviewers I otherwise respect and continued to read afterward.
I respect your opinion a lot, rt, but I'll probably go to Davinci Code anyway because, if nothing else, it will keep my kids quiet for two hours while I relax and eat popcorn. At least it's a step up from when they were younger and I had to go to Rugrats movies (and gladly, rather than trying to keep them entertained myself!).
Oh, and I also agree with you about the '70s. I'm hoping this year's Oscar contenders signal a return to those days.
*Edited slightly this morning for lucidity, as I originally wrote this too late at night.
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Nicely put. I'm not fence sitting here. I think there have been good arguments on both sides.
I agree with latjoreme - I'm really thoroughly surprised when things I like are popular, cause I can admit that when it comes to movies, I have pretty snobby tastes. Only cause I've seen enough in my life to know what I like and what I think is rubbish.
And I back rt's argument too, that box office takings are never a reliable indication of the quality of a movie. We gotta remember that not a lot of folks head out to the cinema to have their lives changed or altered (of course, on January 26 2006, that's exactly what DID happen for me).. most people just want a movie to distract them. Or - as latjoreme said - people are stupid. She's right. Most people resent any experience that makes them actually think. They don't don't WANT to think their way through a movie. Or they might be happy to think a little, so long as it doesn't challenge them. Which is why there is such a market out there for meaningless drivel.
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On a side note...
Sheyne, you're perpetually sunny, sweet, funny, have good taste, are very pretty and you like Donnie Darko. You are the perfect girl!
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On a side note...
Sheyne, you're perpetually sunny, sweet, funny, have good taste, are very pretty and you like Donnie Darko. You are the perfect girl!
I wholeheartedly agree!! :D
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I wholeheartedly agree!! :D
Yep me too! And she can draw!
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Hrmm... Y'all are too much for me..
*in Chicken Little voice* What're we talkin' about??
;D
Thanks sparkle, you're a sweetie yourself.. :-*
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Hey Chris is this you? ROFLOL :laugh:
(http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/5902/sheep.gif)
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Hey Chris is this you? ROFLOL :laugh:
(http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/5902/sheep.gif)
ROFLMFAO! Hell yes!
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Heh.. we ALL should be so plucky!
;D
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From BoxOfficeMojo
Lots of people saw this film....even surpassed my expectations...I thought Juan might be interested in this...
Hey Chris, yeah I was surprised by the size of the BO, given the mediocre reviews. I did see it on Saturday, and I liked it more than I expected. There were enough moments throughout where I was caught up in wondering what was going to happen next, even though I read the book a while back. Some of the criticisms are valid, but not to the point of being terrible. Occasionally Audrey Tatou's a little difficult to understand. There is a lot of exposition, and some of it is livened up with flashbacks. But to me the best thing about the movie is Ian McKellen. He pumps a lot of much needed energy and fun as soon as he appears, and his passionate performance heightened the sense of "what if it were true?" amazement that I felt reading the book.
I haven't been on since Saturday, so I missed a lot of the "art vs. entertainment" debate, but I'll throw my 25 cents in later.
Juan
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Hey Chris, yeah I was surprised by the size of the BO, given the mediocre reviews. I did see it on Saturday, and I liked it more than I expected. There were enough moments throughout where I was caught up in wondering what was going to happen next, even though I read the book a while back. Some of the criticisms are valid, but not to the point of being terrible. Occasionally Audrey Tatou's a little difficult to understand. There is a lot of exposition, and some of it is livened up with flashbacks. But to me the best thing about the movie is Ian McKellen. He pumps a lot of much needed energy and fun as soon as he appears, and his passionate performance heightened the sense of "what if it were true?" amazement that I felt reading the book.
I haven't been on since Saturday, so I missed a lot of the "art vs. entertainment" debate, but I'll throw my 25 cents in later.
Juan
Good I'm glad you semi-liked it! Its not as bad as it sounds at least IMO! I didn't LOVE it either but I liked it....and at least you gave it a try...
I agree about the Ian McKellen thing for sure...he stole the movie!
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That's so funny...does it sound like only semi? I enjoyed it, I would recommend it. My expectations were lowered by the reviews and cuz of Ron Howard, but it surpassed them. In the same vein, Brett Ratner directing X-3 has me a little concerned, but no way would I miss that. If it's good enough, I'll probably see it several times over the weekend.
Juan
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That's so funny...does it sound like only semi? I enjoyed it, I would recommend it.
Well, that’s some encouraging news. I think the book is interesting, so naturally am interested in the movie. Sometime the bad review does have its advantage (at least to me), so that I can set my expectation low and may enjoy the movie more.
The company is going to release everyone early this Friday . I ambitiously want to fit two movies in the 5 hour window I have. Definitely want to see United 93 but still can not find a showtime that fits in my schedule. I am also debating between Mission Impossible III vs The Da Vinci Code.
Oh, decisions, decisions... :)
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That's so funny...does it sound like only semi? I enjoyed it, I would recommend it. My expectations were lowered by the reviews and cuz of Ron Howard, but it surpassed them. In the same vein, Brett Ratner directing X-3 has me a little concerned, but no way would I miss that. If it's good enough, I'll probably see it several times over the weekend.
Juan
Oh really? Good glad I ain't the only one that enjoyed it. I also recommend it! Its still makin a killer at the box office - had the highest weekday gross with year yesterday with $9 million...it will surpass MI:3's gross by Friday...
X-3 is something that i've been waiting to see very impatiently....ever since the 2nd came out....I see it Thursday morning! I'll tell you what I think...
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Well, that’s some encouraging news. I think the book is interesting, so naturally am interested in the movie. Sometime the bad review does have its advantage (at least to me), so that I can set my expectation low and may enjoy the movie more.
The company is going to release everyone early this Friday . I ambitiously want to fit two movies in the 5 hour window I have. Definitely want to see United 93 but still can not find a showtime that fits in my schedule. I am also debating between Mission Impossible III vs The Da Vinci Code.
Oh, decisions, decisions... :)
My personal recommendation is Da Vinci but MI:3 was good too...they're very different films so it depends on your likings...but you really can't go wrong with either IMO!
And United 93 is awesome!
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Well, that’s some encouraging news. I think the book is interesting, so naturally am interested in the movie. Sometime the bad review does have its advantage (at least to me), so that I can set my expectation low and may enjoy the movie more.
The company is going to release everyone early this Friday . I ambitiously want to fit two movies in the 5 hour window I have. Definitely want to see United 93 but still can not find a showtime that fits in my schedule. I am also debating between Mission Impossible III vs The Da Vinci Code.
Oh, decisions, decisions... :)
Oh my God, Jenny. If you are in the mood for a expensive 2.5 hour nap, then choose laughable Da Vinci and start your holiday weekend off on the wrong foot indeed.
But if you want to be entertained, then you better head to MI3 for the best stunts this year, the best action and a movie that delivers the goods, including a good performance from Cruise. This movie got exactly what it was going for -- if you don't like it, I'll send you a check for your ticket price plus popcorn, and I ain't jokin. Plus I'll escort you to the Chen Kaige film we discussed.
Oh, and consult your friendly Rotten Tomatoes meter, will you? ;D
rt
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Oh, and consult your friendly Rotten Tomatoes meter, will you? ;D
Isn't that what rt stands for, I always thought rt = rotten tomatoes. ;)
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Isn't that what rt stands for, I always thought rt = rotten tomatoes. ;)
Gee, don't think I've ever been equated with anything "rotten" but I'll take it if it means saving your time and money from a bad picture. ;D
rt
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I'm feeling feisty at the moment so I'mjumping in, when if I had any common sense I'd keep eating my lunch but
RT, why you trying so hard to talk people outta seein' this movie? You got a bet going somewhere?
Just curious...oh, and stirrin' the pot ;)
O0
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Well, I'm just jumping in and uhh.. turning the heat down.
rt's like me, RouxB: when we see a movie that we deeply resent paying for, we don't want to see other folk parting with their hard earnt cash and we'll talk them out of it till we're blue in the face.
The best part - for me - about paying $11.50 to see Rumour Has It was seeing just enough of it that I knew I'd made a mistake before walking out and sneaking into Brokeback which, by a stunning co-incidence, was playing in the theatre next door and just managing to catch the 2nd tent scene..
;D ;D in that respect, money well spent. But for non-Brokies, what a horrible 2 hours they must have endured...
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This movie got exactly what it was going for -- if you don't like it, I'll send you a check for your ticket price plus popcorn, and I ain't jokin. Plus I'll escort you to the Chen Kaige film we discussed.
Hey, not fair, you updated your post after I replied. You did not sweeten your offer last time. How can I let this once in a whatever opportunity pass. I think I definitely won't like MI3, definitely. ;D
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Well, I'm just jumping in and uhh.. turning the heat down.
rt's like me, RouxB: when we see a movie that we deeply resent paying for, we don't want to see other folk parting with their hard earnt cash and we'll talk them out of it till we're blue in the face.
The best part - for me - about paying $11.50 to see Rumour Has It was seeing just enough of it that I knew I'd made a mistake before walking out and sneaking into Brokeback which, by a stunning co-incidence, was playing in the theatre next door and just managing to catch the 2nd tent scene..
;D ;D in that respect, money well spent. But for non-Brokies, what a horrible 2 hours they must have endured...
Ok I'm just gonna say it...
Just because you and rt resent seeing the film doesn't mean that others will! People really oughta give it a chance...and by 'talking them out of it til you're blue in the face' you are just giving them a bad taste so if and when they go and see it - they WON'T like it...IMO until you see the film you cannot judge! Everyone should develop their own opinion instead of being sheep....once they do that if they still don't like it then thats great! Good for them...but I have little respect for people that judge before actually seeing! Its no different then Bill O'Reilly and all those people that judged BBM without even seeing it!
Ok there's my 25 cents and I mean no disrespect to anyone....JMO!
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Just for Chris...again
(http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/5902/sheep.gif)
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and more to his point...........getting other opinions is good that's why we have critics but they are not and should not be the arbiters of our choices in all things
(http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9609/larsonCartoon2.gif)
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Just for Chris...again
(http://www.d.umn.edu/~lmillerc/TeachingEnglishHomePage/5902/sheep.gif)
LOL
Have to give the guy credit for trying :D
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Chris, have you seen me directly tell anybody NOT to see it?
Furthermore, how do you know I haven't seen it?
And thirdly, my post was only answering a question RouxB posted.
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Chris, have you seen me directly tell anybody NOT to see it?
I never said that you did!
Furthermore, how do you know I haven't seen it?
I never said either or...I actually wan't addressing just you anyway! Please don't think that I was personally attackin you or anyone else.....just was going off of your quote about resentment
And thirdly, my post was only answering a question RouxB posted.
Whats your point? Rouxb actually asked rt...and this is a public forum!
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Tell ya what guys?
I planned to see it this weekend (despite bad reviews I am intreigued) but I'm ill :( so no cinema going for me.. when I'm better and see the film, I will make a point of returning and giving my honest opinion.
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Ok I'm just gonna say it...
Just because you and rt resent seeing the film doesn't mean that others will! People really oughta give it a chance...and by 'talking them out of it til you're blue in the face' you are just giving them a bad taste so if and when they go and see it - they WON'T like it...IMO until you see the film you cannot judge! Everyone should develop their own opinion instead of being sheep....once they do that if they still don't like it then thats great! Good for them...but I have little respect for people that judge before actually seeing! Its no different then Bill O'Reilly and all those people that judged BBM without even seeing it!
Ok there's my 25 cents and I mean no disrespect to anyone....JMO!
Chris, it's okay to have an opinion here without softening it by doing the IMO thing -- we all are adult enough to correspond without wearing kid gloves.
But the question is, why are you so bent on defending this film? And if you are, then just go ahead and support why it's good. I am a film critic and people here contantly ask for my opinion on movies, which I treasure being able to offer to people even though again, it's just my take and why I start these threads. People aren't sheep when the listen to critics --- they are informed. And I have a passion in me for films, actors and the like, so it's important to me and not just "entertainment" and "box office."
And all this trying to defend a piece of sub-par moviemaking by relying on box office totals just doesn't wash with me.... sorry.
Bill O' Reilly? You're really making a reach there, bud. ;D
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I'm feeling feisty at the moment so I'mjumping in, when if I had any common sense I'd keep eating my lunch but
RT, why you trying so hard to talk people outta seein' this movie? You got a bet going somewhere?
Just curious...oh, and stirrin' the pot ;)
O0
Because it is crap. And because you can do better with your time and money. And because I don't understand how the thrust of this entire conversation, after I have spent time deconstructing the film (in a minor way, agreeably), an argument about box office receipts has merit. And mostly, because I want you to have an enjoyable time.
Does that sound right?
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Ok well I say that we call a truce here because we obviously aren't seeing eye to eye....and there is nothing wrong with that! :)
But I for one am kinda tired of debating a seemingly dumb and pointless topic....LOL
So what do ya say? I mean if we're gonna debate lets do so on a topic that actually means something....LOL We cool?
This is too EVERYONE! ;D
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Ok well I say that we call a truce here because we obviously aren't seeing eye to eye....and there is nothing wrong with that! :)
But I for one am kinda tired of debating a seemingly dumb and pointless topic....LOL
So what do ya say? I mean if we're gonna debate lets do so on a topic that actually means something....LOL We cool?
This is too EVERYONE! ;D
Well I think this is a healthy topic instead of everyone sitting around agreeing what a masterpiece Brokeback Mountain is.
What consitutes art vs. crap and its role in the economics of this biz is a topic worth kicking around, I would say.
Debate teams can lead to discoveries.
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Well I think this is a healthy topic instead of everyone sitting around agreeing what a masterpiece Brokeback Mountain is.
Debate teams can lead to discoveries.
Ok well I'm gonna bow out of the debate...because it's really not worth it to me....especially since very few people are seeing eye to eye and its only going to create rifts between friends and friends friends and so on and so forth....
So just know that everyone is cool with me.... ;D
You ever wanna debate immigration or politics....I'm your man! LOL
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It feels like there's a lot of underlying stuff going on here in trading what are basically opinions. What's really being 'debated'? Whether the movie should be considered good because it's making a lot of money? Who's opinion carries more weight? Debates are a lot more informative when there's some acknowledgement that another perspective has some merit.
Juan
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It feels like there's a lot of underlying stuff going on here in trading what are basically opinions. What's really being 'debated'? Whether the movie should be considered good because it's making a lot of money? Who's opinion carries more weight? Debates are a lot more informative when there's some acknowledgement that another perspective has some merit.
Juan
Actually I'm going to bow out of this one too. Nothing underlying in my position, Juan. I originally started this thread to discuss the quality of the film and other issues seeped in as if to invalidate the role of a critic, so I sought to discuss. In my mind I was discussing, at length, the divide between money and art, and its effect on careers and disconnect from quality, as well as other things like objectivity, etc. But I can't argue with "it's making money" because I was initially talking about something else. So, on to the next...
rt
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Well I certainly enjoyed using this mediocre film (my word based on both rt and Chris's reviews) as a catalyst to look at the greed in Babylon and the need for tripe with a built in audience to succeed as a means of supporting the system and providing the revenue to make art.
I do want to say before we let this topic die in to to that it is a tribute to the high esteem that both rt and Chris are held in within this community and by their friends that folks began to get a little testy and defensive..However when that begins it is time to call a halt since fictionalization was never the intention of either.
Good discussion guys
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Well I certainly enjoyed using this mediocre film (my word based on both rt and Chris's reviews) as a catalyst to look at the greed in Babylon and the need for tripe with a built in audience to succeed as a means of supporting the system and providing the revenue to make art.
I do want to say before we let this topic die in to to that it is a tribute to the high esteem that both rt and Chris are held in within this community and by their friends that folks began to get a little testy and defensive..However when that begins it is time to call a halt since fictionalization was never the intention of either.
Good discussion guys
Hi Vic,
Thanks for your words here and bringing this one back around to the logical center. What a fascinating and frustrating issue this is regarding movies and money today, huh? At any rate, thanks to all who chimed in here -- had no idea this would be such a hot button!
rt ;D
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As my 3 year old niece tells me all the time:
You're bein' such a fussy head!
I really enjoy reading what you guys have to say. I think you're all smart (I love smart people!) and opinionated (I love opinionated people too) which makes for some interesting discussions/debates/arguments.
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From Box Office Mojo:
"In its second weekend, The Da Vinci Code dove 56 percent, the steepest fall of star Tom Hanks' career following his biggest opening, which was boosted by millions of eager readers of the blockbuster novel."
Whoops...
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True, but in two weeks it's managed to make more than MI3 has in four. Those built in audiences count for something.
Juan
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True, but in two weeks it's managed to make more than MI3 has in four. Those built in audiences count for something.
Juan
Exactly...and it will top 200 million + over the next month....where as MI:III will hault at about 140 million....its obvious which Tom has the true Hollywood power....LOL
Besides...its 56% drop was actually lower then expected...with the negative critical reviews and HUGE opening with X3 it was expected to drop at least 60%....56% is in the lower end of modest...MI:III dropped 49% in its second weekend....
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Ok, here is a quick review from me (not related to the box office :)).
I saw both The Da Vinci Code and MI3 last Friday. The Da Vinci Code is what it is, a C+ movie. The movie, for the most part, religiously copied the storyline from the book. You can say it’s lack of creativity, but if you are a fan of the book, it may not be a bad thing. I felt the movie was pushing though solving the puzzle parts to get the story moving. It didn’t take time to explain the ins and outs of the clues/puzzles that were left by Sauniere, therefore the audience did not get the same appreciation to how well the puzzles were designed and what it took to solve them. This is what made the book so fascinating to me, which I felt is missing in the movie.
That said, I still enjoyed the movie (and managed to not fall into sleep after MI3 :)). You see, I am a visual person. When I read the book, I was trying to imagine all the paintings, the artifacts, the places mentioned in the book. The movie helped me visualize all the things and places. I particularly enjoyed the part where Teabing explained the hidden code of “The Last Supper” in his study. As others have already commented on, Ian McKellen is the only memorable actor in the movie. He actually made Teabing more interesting than the book version. Overall, the movie is worth the money I paid for.
So if you like the book, you may still find the movie enjoyable. If you have not read the book, but plan to see the movie anyway, just set your expectation low and you may want to reference the book for some details later.
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I saw it at the weekend and quite liked in.. not in my bestest top 10 movies ever..bu8t not in the worst ten either.
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Hey, guys--
Finally saw The Da Vinci Code over the holiday weekend, in Kerrville (and that trip is a whole story by itself), and must confess that I didn't think it was very good. It wasn't the laughable fiasco I had been led to believe; rather, I would describe the production as lackluster, with a distinct lack of chemistry between Hanks and Tautou. Ian McKellan and Paul Bettany gave the most memorable performances, and I confess a fondness for Jean Reno.
I have not read the book, but I went with my mother and my sister, both of whom had read it, and they didn't care for the movie either. Stay tuned for more of my Kerrville story later...
:)
Scott
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Stay tuned for more of my Kerrville story later...
:)
Scott M.
Hurry now, you've whetted our appetite! Well, mine anyhow.
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OK, I saw it tonight. Unfortunately, I don't have a vehement opinion one way or another. On the one hand, I came as close as I have for years and years to falling asleep in the theater. (I've actually done that only twice: The Hudsucker Proxy and The Seven Percent Solution. Wait, three times: the Rugrats movie. But that hardly counts; any sentient adult would have done the same.) On the other, my lack of engagement may have had to do with the fact that five minutes into the movie I was called away and had to miss half an hour of it.
Still, there were times when I was mildly caught up. But I kept wishing it were less reverential and more fun, more in the mold of National Treasure or Raiders of the Lost Ark.
My kids liked it. Tom looked better and more fit than I thought he would. Audrey was pretty, but her wardrobe was boring (if all else fails in a movie, I can always at least get into nice clothes). And in one scene where she and Tom were sprinting down the sidewalk, it looked like she had suddenly changed out of her four-inch heels and into something more practical for eluding gendarmes.
*Updated this morning because I remembered the Rugrats.
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but her wardrobe was boring (if all else fails in a movie, I can always at least get into nice clothes). And in one scene where she and Tom were sprinting down the sidewalk, it looked like she had suddenly changed out of her four-inch heels and into something more practical for eluding gendarmes.
I can excuse her wardrobe...she was a cop after all and on duty, so hardly a place to be a clothes horse, but, heh, you noticed the shoes too?
At the end of the movie, there's a scene where she dips her foot in a fountain and I was like WTF?!?!? Ain't no way she's had on heels all this time running!
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Production Budget: $125 million
TOTAL LIFETIME GROSSES
Domestic: $150,622,529 32.2%
+ Foreign: $317,479,155 67.8%
= Worldwide: $468,101,684
with a production budget of 125 million and a total gross of more than 468 million in two weeks,it is certainly not a commercial failure !
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Production Budget: $125 million
TOTAL LIFETIME GROSSES
Domestic: $150,622,529 32.2%
+ Foreign: $317,479,155 67.8%
= Worldwide: $468,101,684
with a production budget of 125 million and a total gross of more than 468 million in two weeks,it is certainly not a commercial failure !
Yeah and thats only in its first two weeks....it will easily pull in 600-800 million worldwide by the time its done rolling...