I saw the trailer for TDK in a theater for the first time yesterday. I felt a confusing amalgam of feelings, sorrow, pride in Heath, recognition for this trailer I've watched a bunch of times on YouTube, bummed, excited.
I propose that we try not to post spoilers (although we all know the story anyway) until after August 10, in deference to our Eurobrokies.
Here's the review of TDK from Richard Corliss at Time Magazine, (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1821365,00.html) dated yesterday:
[snip]
But Nolan has a more subversive agenda. He wants viewers to stick their hands down the rat hole of evil and see if they get bitten.
So, I went to see it--and yes, it's big all right.
It's so strange--it is within five or six city blocks from Heath's Broome Street apartment. If he would have seen it, I think he would have laughed--
Strange.
:) and :(.
Well, hopefully he is having a little chuckle wherever he is now...
He hated all the posters of AKT, with the he will rock you tag line. I suspect he would not have been overkeen on the enormous posters of him again.
I agree he wouldn't have been keen on it, but I think he would [hopefully] have been less surprised/knew more what he was in for when he knowingly signed on for this blockbuster. He was pretty young and naive [in Hollywood-speak/terms] when he did AKT... at least that's the impression I get from interviews, etc...
From The Belfast Telegraph:
The Dark Knight: the legacy of Heath Ledger
Thursday, 17 July 2008
Maybe the reaction of his family to his last complete acting effort would have meant more to Ledger than anything else that will be said of him in the coming days and weeks. "The Dark Knight is everything we hoped it would be and more," they said in a statement after the New York screening. "Heath loved the experience of creating this character and working on the film. We are so proud of our boy."
So if you loved Heath Ledger, do him a favour when you see him in The Black Knight. Mourn him for the first few minutes but then give in to his work and let him be the Joker. It will be less painful that way.
"Heath Ledger died too young, leaving behind performances as faceted, brilliant and few as a handful of diamonds. His final gem is no less radiant for being pitch black."
From the Tribeca Film Festival newsletter, a wonderful article, clearly written by a Brokie:
http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/news-features/features/heath.html
Wednesday July 16, 2008
Heath Ledger, You Got Us Good
By Nathaniel Rogers
When people talk about "promising" actors it means they’ve generally been impressed but they’re still waiting for one great performance or signature role to come. Ledger’s death came far too early; there’s no disputing that. But promising isn’t the right word for his gifts. His breakthrough performance was not a promise made but a promise fulfilled. Ledger’s death and this towering performance have placed us in the awkward position of Jack Twist himself. We’re still staring greedily at Heath Ledger, asking in vain for more. With Ennis Del Mar, the young actor delivered a performance so stunning and true that we’ll never be able to quit him.
Heath had relatively little screen time.
I appreciated Heath's performance, but I will prefer to remember him as Ennis.
OK, I saw the 12:01AM show tonight. SPOILERS ahead, perhaps...
You've been warned....
It's almost 4AM here, so the following will be less than coherent.
Like I said at the Culture Tent, after the first few moments of recognizing little Heath quirks (mostly his mouth), I stopped seeing Heath and only saw the Joker. It is an amazing performance; he somehow goes beyond caricature so typical of this type of villain. While sadistic, he also supplies the only comic relief in an otherwise pretty dour film.
I am a confirmed wimp when it comes to violence in films, and this was way over the top for me. I actually thought of walking out a few times. The PG-13 rating is an absolute travesty, in my opinion. Even though there may not be much in the way of gore, I squirmed through most of the thing.
I found Christian Bale pretty stiff, and his Batman voice was an annoying loud whisper. I didn't detect much internal conflict in this performance. Gary Oldman acted circles around the rest of the main characters. Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman were delightful, and contrasted Batman/Bruce's lack of personality. Maggie was OK; I can't say much about Aaron Eckhart other than I liked his hair.
Heath had relatively little screen time. If there's an Oscar nomination, I would think it would be for supporting actor.
Sorry to be so negative, it's just not my kind of film.
Okay, so here is the link to the kids-in-mind page about The Dark Knight. I am glad I read it - I am stunned that I am about to knowingly go tomorrow to watch a movie with so much brutality and sadism. But what we do for love....
http://www.kids-in-mind.com/d/darkknight.htm
Home from the movies....
For the first time ever in my life, I had to evacuate a movie theater in the middle of the movie! And naturally, it was at a very very intense Joker moment! We all trooped out of the the theater, hung around in the parking lot, watched the one fire truck arrive and the two firemen go into the building (when I saw just 2 firemen I knew it wasn't serious!). Eventually a cop arrived and gave the "all clear" and they let us back in. Because it was digital, the movie started up in the exact place it left off but the 45 minute break did disrupt my concentration. Oh well.
My review: I usually loathe these types of movies and stop watching after about 20 minutes. This one...I got through the whole thing. And I sort of enjoyed it. But I think what I enjoyed was (in this order) 1) Heath's performance; 2) scenes of Chicago that I recognized*; 3) Morgan Freeman's few funny lines; 4) Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne (I think he is a very handsome man). Beyond that... well, I guess Michael Caine was good, in a stereotyped sort of role.
*one amazing glimpse I caught was of our hotel from our November trip to Chicago! Hannah picked up on it too.
I thought Maggie G. was as dull as dishwater. Sorry for anyone who thought she did a good job. And if this is an improvement over Katie Holmes in the previous movie...ack! Aaron Eckhart's character was also not showing me this huge conflict/transformation thing that was supposed to be going on. Yes, Gary Oldman was good but even he started to get a little dull and repetitious at the end.
Lots of special effects and blowing up buildings. Okay, seen one, I've seen 'em all.
As Paul said, the costume change scene with Heath was great and I especially liked the little touch with the hand sanitizer! LOL. Yes folks, clean hands do save lives!
I am slightly curious to go see the first movie to figure out the bits and pieces I was missing in this one. But I doubt I will see this again in a theater...this is a "once is enough" type movie for me.
As I said on the Heath, Heath, Heath thread, it disappoints me that this is at 94% on rottentomatoes and BBM is 87%. I mean really...it's a no brainer which movie people will be watching 50 years from now.
L
His accent is bizarre (I'm sure you've seen the clips), he does this thing with his tongue that adds to his creepiness. He has one costume change that is hilarious. Funny, I don't want to spoil it!
I am a confirmed wimp when it comes to violence in films, and this was way over the top for me. I actually thought of walking out a few times. The PG-13 rating is an absolute travesty, in my opinion. Even though there may not be much in the way of gore, I squirmed through most of the thing.
Okay, so here is the link to the kids-in-mind page about The Dark Knight. I am glad I read it - I am stunned that I am about to knowingly go tomorrow to watch a movie with so much brutality and sadism. But what we do for love....
http://www.kids-in-mind.com/d/darkknight.htm
From the Tribeca Film Festival newsletter, a wonderful article, clearly written by a Brokie:
http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/news-features/features/heath.html
With Ennis Del Mar, the young actor delivered a performance so stunning and true that we’ll never be able to quit him.
His accent reminded me of his Skip Engblom accent in The Lords of Dogtown. It seemed to be a variation on that.
One review I read (from the Boston Globe, I think...) said the lip-licking thing reminded him of patients who are on anti-depressants. Paul, any comment on that?
L
I was very glad I had read the list of violent moments on the kids-in-mind site before going to TDK, because it helped me recognize moments to close my eyes before something gross happened. Like when The Joker stabs a pencil down into a table top, I closed my eyes right away, because I had read about the moment that was coming after that, and knew I didn't want that image in my memory.
Saw it.
And what Leslie said applied, that the violence was so comic-booky, that it mostly didn't get to me. That was a huge relief. If Heath wasn't on the screen, I simply closed my eyes during rough scenes. If Heath was on the screen, I made a little viewing hole with my hands, and just watched his face, and avoided the rest of the screen. But mostly, it wasn't what I had dreaded, not by a long shot, because it was clearly fake.
I felt pretty detached from the story much of the time, as I often do when I somehow wind up watching action films. Like it's just so over the top that I can't suspend disbelief, so my emotional engagement with the story and characters doesn't kick in. I don't think I ever really forgot I was watching a movie. I'm definitely not its intended demographic. EXCEPT that I'm a Heathen. And there they got me good.
It was a joy to see Heath, and to just watch him, and watch for him in his movements, sounds, mannerisms, etc. He had a surprising number of monologues, where it's just him and maybe one other character, and we get to listen to and look at him for a while. It must have been a blast to go full throttle like that.
I don't know if it was an Oscar-worthy performance. Or rather, I don't know if it was an Oscar-worthy role. He did great, he stole the show, but it sure wasn't Ennis, or even, no offense, Capote. I didn't think he was scary, but maybe that's because I was sitting there loving him, I went there to sit and love him.
I'm glad he was happy making it.
Are you sure he was just holding the Joker up there by standing on the wire?
Okay, so here's a question for all of you.
One of the many reviews I read said that the movie had "lots of loose ends" and that literally "one character was left hanging." That was the Joker, hanging on the batwire, and Batman's foot was the only thing keeping the Joker from falling many stories to his death. Apparently, it is part of Batman's code that he never intentionally kills a person--this is what my daughter tells me. I am not a bat-expert on the finer points of bat-lore.
So, my question:
1. Does Batman take his foot off the wire so that the Joker falls and dies? (If this happens, Batman has broken his code.) But they don't show it so we don't know whether Batman did or not?
2. Was it left hanging (literally) so that in the event of a sequel, the Joker could come back? I am wondering if that was the original plan but now, obviously, everything has changed?
3. Do you think, originally, more was supposed to be shown but because of Heath's death, they didn't actually want to show the Joker's death?
Thoughts?
L
As Rob Lowe as a movie executive says to Aaron Eckhart in "Thank You for Smoking" you can explain anything in a movie with a line something like, "Thank goodness we invented the XYZ technology." :)
I had somehow missed that Rachel died in the film. I had to have that explained to me at lunch afterward by Lynne and LauraGigs.
I missed the part about the addresses being deliberately mixed up by the Joker and wondered why Batman showed up where Harvey Dent was. LOL
The rest of the cast were great except for the guy and I dont .. know his name.. He played the Mayor...He has on so much eye makeup it looked like he was trying to
compete with the Joker, and I fully expected him to turn into a villian , but he did not.
I totally agreed with what you wrote here, so I went to go look up his name - Nestor Carbonell - and found this on his IMDb forum.
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0004801/board/nest/74492702
Some are saying it's just his eyelashes. But he did seem like an odd fit for the mayor.
I've taken anti-depressants for six years. I don't lick my lips much at all.
Meryl, dead on with your comments. That's exactly how I felt, having watched it yesterday morning. Heath was out-of-this-world magnificent in his portrayal. I wish it would have been nothing BUT him, he was so mesmerizing. In a million years, you wouldn't have guessed it was our darling Heath. I found the whole story to be gigantically farfetched and implausible. It was almost a distraction from just watching The Joker. I wonder if like the shirt inside the shirt moment in BBM, how much of TDK did Heath have a say in? Does anyone know?
Meryl, I agree with everything you say except one thing - surely The Joker had it in him to cadge the nurse's uniform? :)
A couple of moments I really liked in the movie - when Harvey Dent asked Alfred if he had known Rachel her whole life, he said something like, "Not yet." I liked that. And when the big, menacing prisoner said, "Give me the remote detonation device and I'll do what you should have already done," and then surprises us by throwing it out the window. I liked that.
I found the whole story to be gigantically farfetched and implausible.
Like you said, it is all so implausible--which is what really drove home the comic book aspect of the movie to me. In fact, there were many scenes that felt like the frames from a comic book: close up of Batman; close up of Joker; big sweeping aerial shot. All that was missing was the dialog bubbles over their heads.
And talk about no chemistry between Rachel Dawes and Harvey Dent! LOL. Last time I saw that much erotic tension was watching Anakin Skywalker and Padme!
Meryl, thanks for the expert review. I knew we could count on our resident director!
Stephanie Zackarack (sp?) from Salon gave The Dark Knight a pretty nasty review. All the fanboys jumped all over her (and anyone else who happens to breathe a negative word for their precious Batman). LOL. She didn't like Brokeback Mountain, either. Does that woman like any movie at all?
"You complete me", while very funny, sums up their relationship.
I found the Joker's line "Hit me" to be very chilling. Batman had a few opportunities to off the Joker, but didn't. They do need each other.
I like the Joker's line when he's hanging off the building, something like, "I have a feeling we'll be doing this forever."
Faked deaths are par for the course in these films. Never kill off a character, as you may want them in another film.
I couldn't believe the Joker had the chops to get all the stuff organized that he had to do throughout the movie: plan and execute a big bank heist, wire an entire hospital to explode, wire two huge ferries to do the same, as well as a number of crooks and Dent and Rachel, send out any number of teams of hoods to corrupt cops, kidnap people, and assassinate a judge and police commissioner, crash a party in a protected penthouse, arrange gangster summit talks...
About the Joker's tongue thing.... I've been thinking to myself that maybe (Yes, I know it's a far shot) Heath took some very noticable trait like that, which can seem so *hot* and enticing and well, - cute, - and turned it upside down on purpose for the Joker
I think they had arranged it, and he "crashed" it. Remember the line, "I know why you have these group therapy sessions in broad daylight."
One great thing about the Joker's character was his courage. He put himself in the line of fire fearlessly, in fact reveled in it. If Batman killed him, he won, because he would have made him break his code. That was a huge turn-on for him.
Haha! There really should be an awards category for these ho-hum pairings.
Thanks, Paul. Maybe being a director has its drawbacks, too. I know how much organizing, pre-planning, budgeting, ordering and execution goes into just one prop list for a show. The Joker was managing the equivalent of at least a hundred shows, all opening in one week! :PWell, my previous boss had as his one big professional credo that nothing motivates customers or employees like stark, raw, immediate fear. So maybe that was the secret to the Joker's impressive organizational talents as well. He scared everything into just happening and falling into place. :D Or maybe he had 10 competent Jokerinas secretly doing all the organizing behind the scenes. I mean, the women in Gotham City must be somewhere, doing something, while the menfolk are out being superheros or arch-nemesises or struggling with the decision of whether to become one or the other. ;D
"Jokerinas"??
Mikaela, you crack me up!
Thanks Meryl for that very articulate commentary. You said it so well!
Like you said, it is all so implausible--which is what really drove home the comic book aspect of the movie to me. In fact, there were many scenes that felt like the frames from a comic book: close up of Batman; close up of Joker; big sweeping aerial shot. All that was missing was the dialog bubbles over their heads.
And talk about no chemistry between Rachel Dawes and Harvey Dent! LOL. Last time I saw that much erotic tension was watching Anakin Skywalker and Padme!
One little scene that I keep thinking back to: the Joker riding in a car, sticking is head out in the wind and whoo-wooing, just like a happy dog.
L
LOL! Or a memory lane. We really owe them big time and shouldn't forget them - it's partly thanks to them that the contrast stands out and we realize at once what a gift we're getting when a couple at the opposite end of the chemistry and acting scale comes along. Jack and Ennis, in other words.
Well, my previous boss had as his one big professional credo that nothing motivates customers or employees like stark, raw, immediate fear. So maybe that was the secret to the Joker's impressive organizational talents as well. He scared everything into just happening and falling into place. :D
Or maybe he had 10 competent Jokerinas secretly doing all the organizing behind the scenes. I mean, the women in Gotham City must be somewhere, doing something, while the menfolk are out being superheros or arch-nemesises or struggling with the decision of whether to become one or the other.
I'm thinking I'm going to have to see TDK again to see what part Heath played in the bank robbery as I wasn't expecting the Joker to appear so soon.
One thing I could not understand was, why from time to time, I found myself feeling sorry for the Joker.Or was it Heath, I don't know.I could not bring myself to fully despise the joker, but that is not because the performance lacked anything, it didn't. There just seemed at some level to be an element of pathos.Or maybe I am just plain nuts !!
I'm thinking I'm going to have to see TDK again to see what part Heath played in the bank robbery as I wasn't expecting the Joker to appear so soon.
Dude, he's the very first guy! You see him stand at the street corner, then get in the back seat of the truck at the very beginning.
(Is that spoiling it? This is the spoilers thread... :P)
Don't know how long it'll be available, but, if anyone's interested, here's the first six minutes of TDK:
http://www.filmofilia.com/2007/12/16/dark-knight-trailer-first-six-minutes/
(I finally figured out where Heath came in. LOL)
I just watched it twice with the sound completely off (in the room with my 5 yo), and I think it helped me see Heath/Ennis. As he jumps up in the school bus, there's a "Gotta go" molecule or two.
Definitely an element of pathos, I agree. He's essentially very lonely. Along the psychosis and appetite for destruction, there seems to be this desire to impress and engage people. To connect. When the one gangster in the meeting calls him crazy or something, you expect him to be like, "big deal"! Instead he says, "no, I'm not" — softly, but with some emotional intensity.
And of course, you have to wonder what trauma and isolation led to him becoming what he was. Ledger gives us tiny peeks at that isolation underneath the repulsive exterior.
I was going to say the same thing - there are two or three different times he's called "a freak" and he defiantly, but quietly says "No, I'm not. I'm not..." If he were a true sociopath and misanthrope, he'd have laughed at that or not even batted an eyelash. But there is definitely an element of wanting to be appreciated for exactly what he is. And he's not. And that is the loneliest thing there is.
(I noticed, that he also killed all the people who called him that.)
I wholeheartedly agree, Optom - you should go see it again, and we have lost an indescribably great talent.
I remember describing what I once thought was the greatest acting ever committed to film (before I saw "Brokeback Mountain" and this movie) - Ralph Fiennes' Amon Goethe in "Schindler's List" - as being someone who took a horror of a human being and made me feel sorry for him. I said "Now, THAT'S acting."
Actually, THIS is.
I was going to say the same thing - there are two or three different times he's called "a freak" and he defiantly, but quietly says "No, I'm not. I'm not..." If he were a true sociopath and misanthrope, he'd have laughed at that or not even batted an eyelash. But there is definitely an element of wanting to be appreciated for exactly what he is. And he's not. And that is the loneliest thing there is.
Profiles In History is auctioning off a coat worn by Heath Ledger in 'The Patriot' The auction is July 31 and Aug 1
This item is scheduled to be auctioned on Aug 1.
26901 Agoura Rd Ste 150
Calabasas Hills, CA 91301
http://www.profilesinhistory.com/new
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/HLAuction.jpg)
From the Tribeca Film Festival newsletter, a wonderful article, clearly written by a Brokie:
http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/news-features/features/heath.html
Wednesday July 16, 2008
Heath Ledger, You Got Us Good
By Nathaniel Rogers
As excitement mounts for The Dark Knight and Heath Ledger as the Joker, we take a look back at Ledger's towering performance as Ennis Del Mar in Brokeback Mountain.
It’s been only six months since the rising star Heath Ledger died of an accidental and toxic mix of prescription pills in New York City. He was 28 years old. What a difference half a year makes. From his death on January 22nd, 2008 to the opening of his last completed film, The Dark Knight, on July 18th he’s been transformed in the media from promising young actor to everyone’s favorite young actor. He’s now unarguably the doomed icon of this generation.
Ledger has been frequently eulogized in the past six months but he’s been oddly present, too; it’s as if he’s been watching the chaos of public mourning and contributing to it with intermittent peeks at his anarchic performance as “The Joker”. This odd double exposure of canonized and living actor didn’t happen through exploitative Hollywood maneuvering but simple economics. How do you stop a moving train? Tent pole scheduling is serious business and Knight was already well en route to its July berth when tragedy stuck. Ledger, too, was already earmarked—or grin-marked if you will—as that film’s principal visual marketing hook.
For all the current hoopla surrounding his intense take on a classic character, when the smoke clears, the Joker won't be the definitive Heath Ledger performance, the one that people remember him for in years to come. His astonishing creation of Ennis Del Mar is the one. His complete immersion into that self-loathing cowboy forever lost on Brokeback Mountain would have ensured his place in film history even if he had lived a long uneventful life as a working actor afterwards. The actor’s tragic demise only sped his classic work to its natural destination.
Brokeback Mountain, widely considered an instant classic upon its release in December 2005, keeps on improving with repeat viewings. Three years after its debut it’s more moving than ever, like some perfectly made objet d’art that feels more classic the more familiar it becomes. Ang Lee, a gifted auteur, deserves the lion’s share of praise for shaping the already heartbreaking short story by Annie Proulx, but he was blessed with the perfect cast in transitioning it to the screen. At first, the central roles of ranch hand lovers Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist were difficult to cast. The promise of working with Lee meant that Young Hollywood was interested but the sexuality of the material frightened some “name” actors away.
History was made once Ledger and his screen partner Jake Gyllenhaal were on board. Romantic dramas live or die by their acting duets and Brokeback Mountain had it. Ledger’s painfully coiled star turn, while owning the film, owes a great deal to the eager sensitivity of Gyllenhaal’s work and vice versa. The contrast between their character temperaments and star personas only heightens the passion and the tragedy. Maybe Ennis and Jack could have saved each other. If only…
Consider for a moment how vastly different they just stand and see their worlds. When we get our first look at Ennis Del Mar he’s leaning against a wall, smoking. He rarely lifts his head, staring only at his boots. Even before his sexual collision with Jack and resultant turmoil, Ledger has handed us a snapshot of man trapped inside himself. Jack Twist, on the other hand, moves like he’s a part of the larger world rather than a sole inhabitant. Even in repose, leaning against his truck while giving Ennis that first once over, he’s aggressively carnal. Ennis barely allows himself a glance but Jack isn’t at all shy about staring. Gyllenhaal makes deft use of his huge expressive eyes—they never stop looking at Ennis. Even as the romance progresses, Jack's desire for friendship, camaraderie even, never abates, remaining clear in his every expression, every flicker of his blue, blue eyes.
Actors are often lauded for physical transformations but the crystalline precision of Ledger’s star turn in Brokeback Mountain is that the physicality of Ennis is only a manifestation of the internal. The performance is as specific as any dutiful biopic recreation but it’s causal, lived in, rather than imitative. Ledger understands and telegraphs that Ennis’s discomfort is not physical but psychic. Ennis’s clenched physicality, his inconsistently tactile responses to his lover, the famous way he swallows his dialogue—these are merely his insides turned out. He can’t live with himself. He can’t live with or without Jack. This man can’t truly live.
Ennis may have lived a miserable half-life, but Ledger’s performance ironically delivers a full, radiant life. When people talk about "promising" actors it means they’ve generally been impressed but they’re still waiting for one great performance or signature role to come. Ledger’s death came far too early; there’s no disputing that. But promising isn’t the right word for his gifts. His breakthrough performance was not a promise made but a promise fulfilled. Ledger’s death and this towering performance have placed us in the awkward position of Jack Twist himself. We’re still staring greedily at Heath Ledger, asking in vain for more. With Ennis Del Mar, the young actor delivered a performance so stunning and true that we’ll never be able to quit him.
I saw TDK on Monday morning, and yes, the death stuff was hard to take. Like you, Amanda, I was a bit surprised that they left those scenes in. After having seen it only once, I've yet to decide if those scenes were so integral, that they couldn't have been left out, even for respect for Heath's memory. I was in tears; thankfully, I was in the back row, and managed to keep it pretty quiet. But in tears, nevertheless. When you think about it, though, pretty much every movie Heath ever made involved either his character dying, or coming very close to death. The Patriot, Monster's Ball, Four Feathers, Ned Kelly, Brothers Grimm, etc. They're all much harder to watch post-Jan 22 than they were before. I've not decided if I'll see TDK again or not. To me, the only part of that very long movie that I found enjoyable were the scenes with The Joker. Gave me goosebumps, in a good way, every time he came on screen. I thought Heath's was a masterful performance, but that it was rather wasted in a film I found to be quite unspectacular. Just my opinion. Perhaps I've just seen one too many comic-book movies. :-\
As scary and hard-to-take as TDK was (especially the body bag scene in relation to real life events), I really did like it a lot.
And, am I correct in thinking we're not really supposed to know if the Joker really dies or is even captured at the end? I thought that Batman's villains always survive somehow.
Batman leaves the Joker dangling from the building ledge, and as he leaves, you see SWAT team members getting ready to apprehend him from there.
So it does end with him getting captured. Although as easily as he evades a tight spot, I'm sure they would have a sequel in the works.
(Would have. :P)
I had somehow missed that Rachel died in the film. I had to have that explained to me at lunch afterward by Lynne and LauraGigs. Seems like a movie can pretty much bring anyone back in a sequel, or for that matter in the same film (Commissioner Gordon).
As Rob Lowe as a movie executive says to Aaron Eckhart in "Thank You for Smoking" you can explain anything in a movie with a line something like, "Thank goodness we invented the XYZ technology." :)
I remember she wrote a very good review of "The Fellowship of the Ring," which endeared her to me, a Ring-lover. I just read her TDK review and have to say I agreed with the bulk of it. I'm no expert on Hitchcock, so can't comment on her comparison, but I agree with this:
There's no dramatic arc in "The Dark Knight" -- only a series of speed bumps. The moments in the movie that should be the most dramatic are glanced over so quickly that we barely have time to register what has happened.
And this, most of all:
But the finest moments in "The Dark Knight" belong to Ledger as the Joker. Bob Kane has acknowledged that the Joker was inspired by Conrad Veidt's character -- a gentle-spirited loner with a carved-in smile -- in the piercing 1928 silent "The Man Who Laughs." Ledger's performance, stylistically, is nothing like Veidt's, and the conception of the character is completely different. But Ledger, behind that smudged, chalky makeup, and with that cruel, scar-tissue leer, does channel some of Veidt's poignancy -- though he lets us see it only in flashes, like the flanks of a fish in a muddy pond. There's desperation beneath the Joker's cruelty, and Ledger shows it to us in his hunched-up walk, and in the slurry precision of his speech.
The performance is unsettling and difficult to watch, partly because it's impossible to remove it from the context of Ledger's death. But it's a fine performance regardless, and I wish the movie around it were more deserving.
I think I was definitely a fish out of water watching this film.
Did anyone here who saw it laugh at parts.?
When I went to see it lots of the audience were laughing at various points and I was just WTF did I miss something here?
I saw TDK on Monday morning, and yes, the death stuff was hard to take. Like you, Amanda, I was a bit surprised that they left those scenes in. After having seen it only once, I've yet to decide if those scenes were so integral, that they couldn't have been left out, even for respect for Heath's memory. I was in tears; thankfully, I was in the back row, and managed to keep it pretty quiet. But in tears, nevertheless. When you think about it, though, pretty much every movie Heath ever made involved either his character dying, or coming very close to death. The Patriot, Monster's Ball, Four Feathers, Ned Kelly, Brothers Grimm, etc. They're all much harder to watch post-Jan 22 than they were before. I've not decided if I'll see TDK again or not. To me, the only part of that very long movie that I found enjoyable were the scenes with The Joker. Gave me goosebumps, in a good way, every time he came on screen. I thought Heath's was a masterful performance, but that it was rather wasted in a film I found to be quite unspectacular. Just my opinion. Perhaps I've just seen one too many comic-book movies. :-\
We have a Dutch version in which you can see him smoke pot.
But the Joker doesn't die in your version does he?
Right, it's left very open-ended as to what happens to the Joker. The last we see of him he's dangling off the side of a building with a SWAT team closing in on him. But, we don't see him die and we don't even see him actually being arrested at the end. So, anything is still possible with him... especially since throughout the film we've seen him escape from very improbable situations.
That's my general question about Batman villains... I think they all are capable of returning repeatedly somehow.
Oh yes, THAT scene, sorry, I should probably READ things thoroughly before replying. I should know better.
*scurries back into her corner*
But the Joker doesn't die in your version does he?
Your version. LOL. We have a Dutch version in which you can see him smoke pot.
I hope with all my heart that they do not bring the joker back.He is for me now,definitively and irrevocably linked to Heath. They need to ressurect one of the other villains.In fact I have found the whole TDK so hard, that I almost hope the Imaginarium does not get released.Wounds which may be starting to heal by 2009 ,will just reopen.Even the thought of the Oscars, fills me with dread.
The worst thing about TDK was all the premiers with a great big gap, where Heath should have been,looking embarrassed by all the praise, self deprecating as always, and just one big fidgit.Who would have thought one man could leave such a gaping chasm.
But Mel, has it already been released there? Where did you see it?
Yep, I saw it at the IMAX in Amsterdam....
I actually can't remember Heath looking embarrassed by praise, or of him being self-deprecating. Can you remind me of examples?
The one that sticks in my mind most was when he was told by an interviewer that it was a brave choice to take on the role of a gay cowboy, and Heath said, and I am paraphrasing here, acting is not brave , its not like I'm in any danger, eg firefighters etc. I will try and hunt down the orginal instead of my verson of it.
I also always thought, but could well be wrong that some of his more shy laughter as opposed to the easy laugh he also had, was down to embarassment re the praise heaped on him for BBM.
He said in another interview, that he never felt completely happy with a role, he always looked at it and felt he could redo parts better. Maybe hyper critical of himself may have been a better choice than self deprecating ???
Either way I sure missed seing him at the promtotions and usual round of interviews.
For someone with such an enormous talent, when the cameras were on him for a role, he never, to me, seemed at ease when the cameras were on him ,just for him.
I can think of several less talented actors who will wax lyrical and are entirely comfortable with being themselves in interview..
Maybe talent is inveresly proportional to beiing at ease with interviews etc. I remember Laurence Olivier came across terribly in many interviews, almost on the verge of being rude.
I hope with all my heart that they do not bring the joker back.He is for me now,definitively and irrevocably linked to Heath. They need to ressurect one of the other villains.In fact I have found the whole TDK so hard, that I almost hope the Imaginarium does not get released.Wounds which may be starting to heal by 2009 ,will just reopen.Even the thought of the Oscars, fills me with dread.
So it's a little bit early for Oscar nominations, but there is already a lot of buzz floating around that Heath Ledger should get a nomination for his performance in "Batman: Dark Knight."
I haven't seen the movie, nor do I plan to see the movie. But I think it's an interesting question, especially since so many of you love Batman (as proved by the response to Tyrion's “When Batman Was Gay” (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/07/when_batman_was_gay.php) post). . . . We all know he became a gay favorite after his Oscar nominated role in Brokeback Mountain, but was this latest performance up to the standard?
Oh yes, THAT scene, sorry, I should probably READ things thoroughly before replying. I should know better.
*scurries back into her corner*
But the Joker doesn't die in your version does he?
Your version. LOL. We have a Dutch version in which you can see him smoke pot.
This is OT. Well, sort of. But I was just wondering who the Dark Knight is. Is the name in reference to Batman, or to the Joker? The word "dark" sounds a bit sinister so this makes me skeptical they would use it to describe Batman. Or does the name reference another character? Who is the Dark Knight?
I'll admit I'm not much of a Batman fan. I didn't even watch the series on TV when I was little back in the 1960's. But some friends of mine have managed to talk me into PROBABLY seeing it next weekend. That is, if they go with me to see Momma Mia! lol So I'm curious as to who the Dark Knight is. :)
WOW!! Thanks Amanda for taking the time to explain it to me. I appreciate it! :)
Our reactions all seem to be so varied and personal, and IMO all valid and deserving of respect. My own reaction, in watching Heath's performance, was just the opposite. It was so full of energy, such flawless timing and so perfectly matched the script's treatment of the Joker -- and, IMO, Heath seemed to be having such a great time doing it, stressful as it might have been -- that I kept thinking 'oh Heath... bravo!'
IMO, if they make another Batman flick they'll need to write the Joker out: that performance would be an impossible act to follow.
Hello, everyone. It's Gabreya. I'm terribly, terribly sorry that I haven't been around during this summer and I've been feeling guilty about it. It's just that I was busy over the summer and something on the computer had a virus that we had to renew everything we had. We've already taken care of that, though. But, I can't tell you guys how much I missed being around here. :( I mean, all of you have been great to me and eachother. I tell ya'. I'd never seen a website where there are so many nice and peaceful people here. And I mean that. :) Will, you guys ever forgive me?
Last week, I went to see "The Dark Knight" and I thought that it was really good. I thought Heath was great as the Joker. He made this Joker frightening yet funny at the same time. Plus, I actually thought that the Joker was likeable. I mean, yes, he's the bad guy but still. He was cool. I waited impatiently for the next scene he was in. I knew that he would do very well in his role as always. But, I couldn't help but to feel a sad everytime I think of what that role did to him. It's just that that role SHOULD NOT have sent his mind in a whirlwind. If it was going to do that to him, he shouldn't have taken the role in the first place. The problems he was having like sleeping, staying still, feeling sick, and all that stuff was just bothering him so that he couldn't handle it any longer. I think he was better off NOT being in this movie. :( But, I still enjoyed the movie. Yeah, I've seen other good superhero movies like "Iron Man" and "The Incredible Hulk" this summer as well. And this movie is no exception. It was awesome. But, it's bittersweet because it wasn't just Heath that made this film really dark, it was other stuff surrounding the fact that others had passed away to make this movie great. :'( They, too, will be forever missed.
I love you, Heath.
I'm going to go see TDK again this weekend before I post any kind of extensive review here. So much goes on in that movie, I really do think that a second viewing will be important to noticing details and to taking in the dialogue more accurately.
My initial reaction was really positive. I thought it was a fabulous movie and it was definitely thought provoking in all kinds of ways.
Forgive me if this detail is discussed elsewhere in this thread... but I just need to comment on the one scene where the Joker is in the body bag, they unzip it and then he sits up to surprise everyone. Yikes!! That scene just about killed me... specifically with Heath's real life tragedy in mind. It's just too, too terrible in juxtaposition with the news clips of Heath being taken out of the apartment. That scene has already given me a nightmare. One some level I'm almost surprised they left it in. It's really effective as a scene... but still, it's just so surreal!
:'(
Oh no, you suffered from a computer virus too? I had one last week as well, and I had to renew EVERYTHING on it. It was pitiful. Well, we're glad you are up and running again, and I'm happy you enjoyed the TDK movie! :)
I just came back from watching TDK again. The theater was packed again, this the second weekend of its release. I still thoroughly enjoyed the film and I find the Joker absolutely mesmerizing. As with many comic book films, the villains seem to be the more interesting characters in their extreme quirkiness and fiendishness. And, I can imagine that as an actor, the Joker really would be more fun to play than Batman.
This time I feel like I was noticing more mannerisms in the portrayal of the Joker that may have been (probably were) subtle homages to Jack Nicholson (not necessarily specifically to Nicholson's Joker, but to some of the qualities of Nicholson's voice and certain mannerisms). This, to me seems appropriate, given Nicholson's history with the Batman films and because, I feel like I've read somewhere, that Heath deeply admired Nicholson as an actor.
And, this time I was focused more on the fascinating dynamics between the Joker and Batman... Specifically the idea that the Joker had no intention of killing Batman. And that the wry statement of the Joker's to Batman - "you complete me" - is probably very true... that they each need a nemisis to have a purpose (or something like that). Or, that they represent an eternal struggle between good and evil. Furthermore, it seems like the Joker much prefers to toy with Batman and torment him.
This idea of an ongoing struggle between the Joker and Batman seems to be set up pretty clearly during the Joker's last scene while he's dangling off the side of the building. He says "I get the feeling you and I are destined to do this forever!" Which to me implies that the Joker could easily come back.
On another totally different note... This time, since I'd already seen the film once, I could spend more time focusing on backgrounds and details, etc. And, I noticed several very familiar buildings in Chicago! In at least two different prominent shots I saw a large office building that my Dad used to work in a long time ago when I was a little girl! And, right after leaving the theater I called my Dad to tell him about that, and he said that he actually saw some of the Batman filming sets and specifically lots of Gotham City police cars back when the film was shooting in Chicago. I hadn't known that until today! I'd never yet spoken to my Dad in depth about Batman until this afternoon.
I had that same feeling during that scene - and how great it would be to watch the Joker and Batman spar again and again. But of course it can never happen again... I'm currently of the feeling that I don't want the Joker to come back, ever. Not without Heath. Maybe when I'm old and gray I'll feel differently...
???
I went to K Mart yesterday (a large chain that sells everything from toys to clothes to shampoo), and the plastic bag the cashier put my stuff in had Batman/Dark Knight imagery on it.
Here's a little Batman 101. There's lots more, including the "Is Batman gay?" discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman
Batman (originally referred to as the Bat-Man and still referred to at times as the Batman) is a fictional comic book superhero co-created by artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger (although only Kane receives official credit) and published by DC Comics. The character first appeared in Detective Comics #27 (May 1939).[1] Batman's secret identity is Bruce Wayne, a multi-billionaire industrialist, playboy, and philanthropist. Witnessing the murder of his parents as a child leads him to train himself to physical and intellectual perfection and don a bat-themed costume in order to fight crime. Batman operates in the fictional Gotham City, assisted by various supporting characters including his sidekick Robin and his butler Alfred Pennyworth, and fights an assortment of villains influenced by the characters' roots in film and pulp magazines. Unlike most superheroes, he does not possess any superpowers; he makes use of intellect, detective skills, science and technology, wealth, physical prowess, and torture in his war on crime.
Batman became a popular character soon after his introduction, and eventually gained his own title, Batman. As the decades wore on, differing takes on the character emerged. The late 1960s Batman television series utilized a camp aesthetic associated with the character for years after the show ended. Various creators worked to return the character to his dark roots, culminating in the 1986 miniseries Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, by writer-artist Frank Miller. The successes of director Tim Burton's 1989 Batman motion picture and Christopher Nolan's films Batman Begins and The Dark Knight also helped to reignite popular interest in the character. A cultural icon, Batman has been licensed and adapted into a variety of media, from radio to television and film, and appears on a variety of merchandise sold all over the world.
More Batman 101
The Joker is a fictional character that appears in comic books published by DC Comics. Created by Bill Finger, Bob Kane and Jerry Robinson, the character first appeared in Batman #1 (Spring 1940). The archenemy of the superhero Batman, the Joker is a master criminal whose characterization has varied from a violent and murderous sociopath, causing chaos and committing crimes for his own amusement, to a goofy and virtually harmless trickster-thief. Wizard magazine rated Joker as the greatest villain of all time.[2] The Joker's real identity is unknown, and there have been different takes on his origin; the most common variation depicts him as falling into a vat of chemicals which bleach his skin, turn his hair green and his lips bright red, giving him the appearance of a clown.
The character has appeared in numerous Batman related media; portrayed by Cesar Romero in the 1960s Batman television series; Jack Nicholson in the 1989 film Batman (Nicholson's version of the Joker ranks #45 in the American Film Institute's list of the top 50 film villains); voice actor Mark Hamill in the 1990s Batman: The Animated Series television series; and Heath Ledger in the 2008 Batman Begins sequel, The Dark Knight.
His first appearance:
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/Maine/150px-Joker2.jpg)
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(comics)
;D Thanks again Leslie!! :-*
I'm feeling a strong urge to re-watch the Jack Nicholson Joker movie. It would be really interesting to see that again with TDK in mind. I remember I really liked the Nicholson movie, but at this point I recall very little about the specifics of that movie.
Yes, I suspect that there really are huge differences (based on what I recall from the Nicholson version)... especially the overall style of the movie. As we see from some of Leslie's reporting... the Joker is sometimes portrayed in a goofy/ campy way and sometimes very sinister. In the Nicholson version it's clear the campy version is what they were after.
Having seen TDK twice now, I really do think there are moments when Heath is taking some vocal cues from Nicholson. Not necessarily specifically Nicholson's Joker... but Nicholson's general sort of raspy-airy way of speaking. And, even some of the sing-songiness of Nicholson's typical speech pattern comes through in Heath's Joker's voice I think. The way Heath does it, the voice comes out sounding very innovative... but I really do think he was probably occasionally making a little hommage to Nicholson (since I gather Heath really respected Nicholson anyway).
when NOT to look or listen etc
Here's my advice... and this is a Spoiler too...
Watch out for Harvey Dent after he gets burned. Now that I've seen it twice I know exactly when to avert my eyes or how to look at an obscure corner of the screen when he's involved in a scene after he's injured. To me, Harvey Dent was by far the most gruesome thing about the film.
I wasn't prepared for it the first time I saw the film and **bblleegghh!!!** I wish I had been warned. If I saw this movie when I was a child, I would have had nightmares about Harvey Dent for days.
And, I agree with Leslie, that the movie as a whole didn't leave me with a feeling of being scared or frightened either (other than being grossed out on one or two occasions). And, definitely keep in mind the idea that you're watching a "live action" comic book. That can help.
I thoroughly recommend seeing it on the big screen, so I definitely encourage you to go.
Even the police cell scene where Batman beats the Joker up didn't have much impact, because the Joker seemed perky as ever afterwards.
I wasn't prepared for it the first time I saw the film and **bblleegghh!!!** I wish I had been warned.
Pacing and suspension-of-disbelief issues aside, I enjoyed the acting performances a lot. A nice ensemble film. I liked the supporting-supporting performances, such as the tweaky man on the commuter ferry who wanted to blow up the prisoner ferry, and the would-be assassin in the 21-gun salute squad who turned out to be schizophrenic. Good, interesting performances IMO.
"**bblleegghh!!!**" LOL, very expressive typing! :laugh:
Seriously though, I agree; it was by far the most terrifying thing. (That and the fake-batman's body suddenly dropping next to the mayor's window.)
Impressive makeup/CGI on Two-Face, scary as it was.
That tweaky guy on the ferry was on Northern Exposure for a while, as part of a very positive, normal, funny gay couple. I got distracted by my memory of that, reminiscing about my enjoyment of that show. :)
do you all think that the Joker's brightly colored socks ... were meant to be self-referential for Heath in a silly way?
No idea. Seems like the only way to get that answered for certain would be to ask the filmmakers — if they ever do a Q+A or something . . .
The only thing I heard/read about in that area was that Heath's nurse uniform nametag says "Matilda" in homage to his daughter. (So small as to be illegible in the film, though.)
He also remarked that the Joker as nurse looked like Reba on a bad acid trip.
(http://bp1.blogger.com/_AY_4woR0GAY/R_UC0KOOetI/AAAAAAAABpw/5CioX5XBw4w/s1600/nurse27dqi0.jpg)
hehe, so hilarious when he finally got the detonator to work and tripped out of the screen with a flip of his dress!
That's irreverent, all right! I guess it's kind of funny. Riffing on the sense that Batman and Joker need each other.
Who is PSH supposed to play?
I"m surprised they didn't change the tagline. "Love is a force of chaos" or something.
That's irreverent, all right! I guess it's kind of funny. Riffing on the sense that Batman and Joker need each other.
Who is PSH supposed to play?
I"m surprised they didn't change the tagline. "Love is a force of chaos" or something.
I"m surprised they didn't change the tagline. "Love is a force of chaos" or something.
That altered poster actually really bothers me. I don't find it cute or funny. :( :(
I don't like the idea of TDK imagery or hype getting mixed up with the legacy of BBM. And, spoofs on the Brokeback poster have always made me feel really defensive of Brokeback.
When I first saw BBM I hadn't heard of a single person in the movie other than Randy Quaid -- had seen The Day After Tomorrow but didn't connect the young male lead with Jake.
That's irreverent, all right! I guess it's kind of funny.
From Amanda
That altered poster actually really bothers me. I don't find it cute or funny. :( :(
One thing I did want to comment on, and I mentioned this to Paul already, is the scene where the Joker is posing as a nurse. Did anyone see (I've not read the whole thread) the name tag?
But I have removed it now so you won't have to see it again.
So, instead of doing what I had planned on doing today, I ended up looking through some lengthy and seriously dedicated TDK fanpage.
It's a weird experience, watching a new fandom going gloriously full blast, in those early stages where everything is so overwhelming and everyone are having so much fun. Even though I haven't seen the film yet, I've been sitting there LOL'ing and grinning and just generally shaking my head. So much creativity... so much amazing fangirlishness/fanboyness - for the film and some of the actors - mainly Heath and CB, - so many wonderful swoony pictures, so much general craziness, so many funny fandom injokes, so much utter irreverence.... I won't even get into what they've dubbed Heath by now. But I can't help just laughing, and I think Heath would have done so, too.
And so many spoilers, by means of clips, mostly. Joker clips. I bet I must soon have seen the entire Joker part of the film, just from clips. I've certainly seen that whole pencil incident by now. And it's strange to see that Heath finally has made it with the fanboy crowd - noe they're posting all the images that have ever been seen over here at the HHH thread... and oooh'ing and aaaah'iing and swooning mightily.
But anyway, they're taking every possible pop culture reference and actor gossip tidbit and running with it, using all their photoshopping skills in the process, and it was when I saw this one that I knew I had to come back here and post.(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/Maeglian/BBKBATMAN.jpg)
Mikaela, I can't see the image. Could you maybe post the link to the website?
Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO
Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO
Note - after reading this article, I looked up when Sid Vicious died. 2 months 2 days before Heath was born.
Heath Ledger's Joker inspired by Sid Vicious
Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker in the latest Batman film was inspired by Sid Vicious, according to his co-star Christian Bale.
By Laura Clout
Last Updated: 9:23AM BST 29 Jul 2008
Chistian Bale said: He [Ledger] modelled the part on Sid Vicious which made this punk-like character. I think it is a classic portrayal of a great villain. Bale, who plays the protagonist in the hit movie, said Ledger, who died in January of an accidental drugs overdose, had watched video clips of the late Sex Pistols guitar player while researching the role.
The 34-year-old said: "Heath's created an anarchic Joker unlike any ever seen before.
"He modelled the part on Sid Vicious which made this punk-like character. I think it is a classic portrayal of a great villain."
The punk rocker, whose real name was John Simon Ritchie, died in New York 1979, also from a drugs overdose.
The troubled musician - renowned for his violent behaviour - was facing trial over the murder of his former girlfriend Nancy Spungen at the time of his death.
Ledger is being tipped to win an Oscar for his role in The Dark Knight.
Bale added: "Heath immersed himself in the role. I would love to see him get an award."
Before his death, Ledger said he also drew inspiration from A Clockwork Orange for the role.
"It's the most fun I've had with a character and probably will ever have…" he said.
The actor added: "It was an exhausting process. At the end of the day I couldn't move. I couldn't talk. I was absolutely wrecked."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2468004/Heath-Ledger's-Joker-inspired-by-Sid-Vicious.html
A little tangent. An unappealing one, IMO.
Sid Vicious in an apparently famous version of "My Way."
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLC3uT3aCoE[/youtube]
Gary Oldman doing Sid Vicious doing "My Way," in the movie "Sid & Nancy."
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMv5rtjbw8[/youtube]
(Gary Oldman is less unappealing.)
oh Elle, do you know what is kind of weird/odd/creepy about the first line above? did you post it that way on purpose or accident?
You mean me saying when Sid Vicious died? Yeah, weird/creepy. I've been working on a little redemption story in my mind since reading that - that the reason he became so good-hearted this time around was to transmute that yuckiness last life.
no, I meant the 2 - 2 ...
you said 2 days 2 months; Heath died on the 22nd...
I know there are only so many numbers in the English language. I see coincidences everywhere these days.
I'm still apprehensive about watching it though :-\
Fabienne, I do think you're right that Batman is much more bland than the Joker (or any of his villains). In a lot of super hero movies the villains seem to overshadow the heroes in their often extreme eccentricities and outlandishness.
Note - after reading this article, I looked up when Sid Vicious died. 2 months 2 days before Heath was born.
I just saw it last night. WOW. Some thoughts:
Is anyone else completely fascinated with the Joker's voice? I was just astounded by how different it was from Heath's normal voice. I don't understand people who can do things like that with their voices. Someone posted an article somewhere around here that Heath was studying how Chicago residents speak while they were filming for inspiration for the voice. I heard a little bit of that (my college is just outside of Chicago) and I thought it was really interesting.
Speaking of Chicago, I thought the city was pretty recognizable as Chicago. I knew they were filming there but I thought they would use whatever camera tricks they use to make it look like just a generic city. I was fun but also distracting to see so many familiar places.
I thought Two-Face's face was horrifying at first, but after a couple more looks at it, it started to look almost comically fake to me. While it was still gross, it looked so fake that it didn't bother me anymore.
I agree that there was absolutely zero chemistry between Aaron Eckhart and Maggie Gyllenhaal. It made it really hard for me to believe Harvey Dent's freak-out after she died. That kind of thing hardly ever bothers me in movies, but it did in this situation.
I LOVE the little tidbit that the Joker's nurse uniform had a Matilda name tag. I really wish it was big enough to be visible. Those of you who have seen it on IMAX, can you see it on the bigger screen?
The friend that I saw it with just got done with a music production internship at Warner Brothers. She said that they used two different composers in TDK, one for Batman and one for Joker. I want to see it again anyway, and I'd like to try to notice the different music for each of them.
Heath's performance was amazing. I realized that I was kind of tense when he wasn't on screen because I was looking forward to him coming back, but I was still tense when he did reappear because there was absolutely no way to know what he would do next.
I had heard the phrase "body bag scene" somewhere around here in discussion about TDK, but I didn't know exactly what the scene was. Goodness. How unpleasantly startling.
Um, I think that's all for now. I glad I can finally read this thread! I had been avoiding spoilers. :)
TDK still #1 even on its 4th weekend!
http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx/?news=326360>1=28101 (http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx/?news=326360>1=28101)
"It has taken on a life of its own, and in doing so got so much positive press and word of mouth that older audiences who normally don't rush out to see movies or maybe only see two, three movies a year are coming out in large numbers," Fellman said. "It's a question of `We've been reading about this for three, four weeks now. Let's go see what it's all about.'"
I was thinking the whole time that if he wasn't a homicidal maniac, I would give anything to have him as my best friend. If that makes any sense at all...
Lastly, I have to be honest with you - even with half a face, I couldn't stop thinking about how sexy Aaron Eckhart is. As I watched Two-Face sitting in the hospital bed I was still thinking about how I would do it. Eek! Mmmm...Eek!...Mmmmm...Eek!...okay angle your head just a little to the left. Now hold it there. Perfect.
OT
My younger daughter went to Six Flags Great America yesterday where she had her face painted to resemble the Joker. Afterwards, she was a bit of a mini celebrity, with people asking to have their picture with her. Here's how it looked when she got home:(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa188/ffrraann/The%20Weather%20Man/Picture4-1.png)
She looks great!
And in the same vein.... if anyone needs a smile on their face, do give this video a try. It's TDK trailer re-enacted by little kids. It's adorable. Love the bat-bike! And the Joker-voice. (Hopefully the kids don't know every little story detail of what exactly it is they're re-enacting.)
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1826024
I bet there's gonna be quite a few Jokers on the street, come Halloween!
I was very apprehensive about seeing "The Dark Knight", but I finally did (a few days after it opened). Like I said in another post, I recognized Heath by his walk immediately. I was filled with glee and excitement. Other than that initial "here I am" moment, I saw no traces of Heath in that amazing performance. I was totally suckered when the Joker kept changing the story of how he got his scars.
Lastly, I have to be honest with you - even with half a face, I couldn't stop thinking about how sexy Aaron Eckhart is. As I watched Two-Face sitting in the hospital bed I was still thinking about how I would do it. Eek! Mmmm...Eek!...Mmmmm...Eek!...okay angle your head just a little to the left. Now hold it there. Perfect.
;-)
She looks great!
And in the same vein.... if anyone needs a smile on their face, do give this video a try. It's TDK trailer re-enacted by little kids. It's adorable. Love the bat-bike! And the Joker-voice. (Hopefully the kids don't know every little story detail of what exactly it is they're re-enacting.)
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1826024
I bet there's gonna be quite a few Jokers on the street, come Halloween!
I want to see him developed as Two-Face, but they killed him. Can they make another movie in which that just didn't happen?
Having seen the film (and having been very sceptical to it before I saw it, as you may recall), I'd say the film would certainly have garnered very wide attention and adulation no matter what. For a superhero movie it's definitely of decent quality. Not my particular cup of tea, what with the character development largely getting lost in endless car chases and explosions, and most of the characters not rising above their 2-D cartoonish origins. But there is no doubt the film is good enough, on its own premises and in its genre, to have merited positive reviews and a big box office no matter what. That said, the added poignancy of this being Heath's last finished film of course hasn't decreased the interest. But in my opinion, it has been one factor among many. At the end of the day, the film stands on its own two legs.
As for Heath's performance in it, it is nothing less than astounding. I disagree that it is his best performance to date - that would still be Ennis, no mistake about that - but the Joker is an immense acting tour de force, that is indisputable. There really isn't much grounds on which to draw a comparison between Ennis and the Joker, they're that different and at opposite ends of the acting range. The main difference to me is that I can (and always will) relate to Ennis as a real person. With the Joker, for all his impact, I couldn't do that - he was a larger than life, utterly impressively acted cartoon figure. Not a real person, never a real person, but a riveting representation and symbol of everything we as individuals and as a society fear that goes bump in the night, everything that challenges our humanity. A symbol of the forces of chaos and anarchy, and their mysterious attraction and lure. He has such incredibly sinister presence and power and sheer frightening charisma in the role, he nearly burns through the movie canvas just from being present on screen, never mind the incessant explosions in the background.
Whether the performance is Oscar-worthy.... well, I happen to have no respect fro the Oscars after 2006, so I don't know. That term is not my term for a good perfomance anymore. And the Joker is a unique performance. I don't think Heath's tragic and untimely death has changed my view of that one iota.
I ran into an old and rarely-met friend yesterday. He's very interested in films and generally when we meet, we end up talking about the recent films we've seen. This time was no exception, so eventually the talk turned into this:
Him: ...and I've just been to see TDK. Have you seen it?
Me: Yes, I have. What did you think?
Him: Well... didn't like it all that much, characters were not very interesting, bleak and too long, but OMG - The Joker!! - the film was worth seeing for the Joker alone! He was amazing, what a great role, lit up the screen (etc etc for some time.) What an actor this Heath Ledger was!
Me: Yes, he's my favourite actor. And I very much agree about the Joker.
Him: But apparently, he got so impacted by the darkness of the role that he committed suicide....
Me: (Fuming inside! >:( Suffice it to say, I debunked that whole statement in some detail, but managed to stay calm about it.)
Him: Well, he certainly was an amazing actor. I haven't seen much of his other work, haven't even seen Bloke - uhm - Broke -eh...
Me: (so very helpful! ;D ) Brokeback Mountain?
Him: Yes, that's it!
Me: Oh, you've just got to see it. Heath's amazing in it, it's a wonderful film, one of the very best, story and acting alike entirely remarkable. High quality all the way.
Him: Yes, I think I will give it a try...
I don't know whether he'll actually get around to watching it, of course, but anyway - proof positive was had that the Joker makes people consider watching Heath's earlier roles, and BBM of course is high on the list due to the critical acclaim and the Oscar visibility. :)
Thanks for that story, Mika. You had the perfect approach. ;)
Yes, we Brokies now have a new mission: setting the world straight about Heath, one potential Brokie at a time. :)
:laugh:
If I hadn't known you're all Brokies I would know now ;D ;)
Full screen or wide screen? Only Brokies would discuss what to lend to a colleague.
I hope he will be able to see beyond the fundamental believes of his church (at least he's willing to give it a try).
And for the records, my vote also goes for the wide screen version, for all the mentioned reasons (eh, yes, my name is Chrissi and I'm a Brokie ;)).
O.K just to be awqward, I think full screen,you see the wedding ring in the motel scene, Jacks hand in TS1 just small details but quite significant, particularly the weding ring.You are just gtting comfortable with the motel scene and the boys back with each other where they should be,then you see the ring.
However that could just be important to BBM obsesive.I have both versions too. Maybe just give her the 2.!!!
So, Marge, how did your co-worker like it?
You can see Jack's hand in TS1 in widescreen (you can also see Ennis's hand when he reaches forward to hold Jack's hand... you have to watch for the tan sleeve to suddenly appear).
But, it is true that you can't see the wedding ring in widescreen.
So, Marge, how did your co-worker like it?
Sorry to barge in on your conversation, you guys. If you don't mind me asking, when was Ennis holding Jack's hand? I think I've missed that. Oops. Is it on count of the widescreen version or something? ??? Help please.
Optom, do you mean when they were 'riding', Jack at some point grabbed a hold of Ennis free hand and Ennis held it? If only they made TV screens a bit more wider. Hmmm.
I gotta watch the scene again in that format. Thank you, though.
Optom, do you mean when they were 'riding', Jack at some point grabbed a hold of Ennis free hand and Ennis held it? If only they made TV screens a bit more wider. Hmmm.
I gotta watch the scene again in that format. Thank you, though.
Actually, Ennis reaches forward and holds Jack's hand... it's after Jack pounds his fist on the ground. You'll see Ennis's tan sleeve enter the screen from the left side. Right at the very end of TS1, Jack actually seems to be holding onto Ennis's one hand with both of his hands.
Wait, what? Okay, back up.
So, instead of Jack grabbing Ennis's hand, it was the other way around? Interesting.
Well, what seems to happen is that Ennis reaches forward (underneath Jack's torso/ belly) so that Jack is able to hold his hand. You may need to brighten your TV screen if your picture is dark-ish, in order to see it. But, you'll clearly be able to see Ennis's arm come forward (again, just look for the tan sleeve to all of a sudden appear). And, at the very end of TS1 it looks to me like Jack finally grabs onto Ennis's hand with both of his hands (but, it's sort of hard to tell).