BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Our BetterMost Community => Chez Tremblay => Topic started by: MaineWriter on June 20, 2006, 09:39:12 am
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Herman Munster!
I stole this off another board, but I couldn't resist. This is the actor who played Randall. Man, the guy is butt ugly. I didn't like Randall's looks, but at least they smartened him up a bit for the movie. This guy? Blech. LOL
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/munster.jpg)
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Naw. I don't see that in Randall at all. But John Kerry, on the other hand...
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Naw. I don't see that in Randall at all. But John Kerry, on the other hand...
No, John Kerry is Lurch...
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/lurch-kerry.jpg)
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Herman Munster!
I stole this off another board, but I couldn't resist. This is the actor who played Randall. Man, the guy is butt ugly. I didn't like Randall's looks, but at least they smartened him up a bit for the movie. This guy? Blech. LOL
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/munster.jpg)
Wow...actuall;y hurts the eyes :o
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So who do we find least attractive, Randall or Jimbo or Herman Munster?
I vote Jimbo.
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I protest! And not just cuz I'm playing Randall...OK, it is because I'm playing Randall. I saw David Harbour on Broadway in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. He's not bad looking at all. Maybe he's just not that photogenic....
(http://)
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Ain't nothin' wrong with him in my book. And not just 'cause Juan's playing him, either (well, mostly because Juan's playing him, though.)
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Bad looking or good looking he seems like a nice guy. In my opinion of course (who knows, maybe I'm wrong and he's a total jerk :-\).
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I protest! And not just cuz I'm playing Randall...OK, it is because I'm playing Randall. I saw David Harbour on Broadway in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. He's not bad looking at all. Maybe he's just not that photogenic....
LOL, it would seem to me that one of the prerequisites of being a movie star or actor is to be photogenic!
I am sure he is a wonderful man, I just thought the whole Herman Munster thing was funny.
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One thing I've noticed about all of these guys is that they look a lot better if you just put a cowboy hat on 'em! Works wonders for Heath as well...
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So who do we find least attractive, Randall or Jimbo or Herman Munster?
I vote Jimbo.
Maybe we need to create a poll over in the polling place. We can't forget Lurch!
And I agree, Lat, Jimbo did NOTHING for me and his face looked oily. Yuck!
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One thing I've noticed about all of these guys is that they look a lot better if you just put a cowboy hat on 'em! Works wonders for Heath as well...
And that gives me the perfect excuse for this...
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/166461846_f756b1dc2d.jpg)
how about a caption: "You are one fine lookin' man, Jack fuckin' Twist."
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And that gives me the perfect excuse for this...
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/166461846_f756b1dc2d.jpg)
how about a caption: "You are one fine lookin' man, Jack fuckin' Twist."
Leslie, that picture should be on the HEATH HEATH HEATH thread! Oh yeah, it's already on the HEATH HEATH HEATH thread! ;) I guess it should just be on EVERY thread. :-*
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You are so right, Katherine! ;D
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2452.msg45647#msg45647 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2452.msg45647#msg45647)
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Perfect, Anke -- he looks just as good over there! And Leslie, you never need an excuse to post that pic!
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Ain't nothin' wrong with him in my book. And not just 'cause Juan's playing him, either (well, mostly because Juan's playing him, though.)
Grrrrowwwl! I like the direction you're goin'........
Juan
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So who do we find least attractive, Randall or Jimbo or Herman Munster?
Jimbo, definitely Jimbo!
they really should have used Jared Leto :P ;D.
W
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(http://i5.tinypic.com/154wyrq.jpg)
He's not THAT bad! You're all just jealous, because he got to flirt with Jake (aka Jack).. ::)
~ j U d E
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One thing I've noticed about all of these guys is that they look a lot better if you just put a cowboy hat on 'em! Works wonders for Heath as well...
this would explain why the guy playing Munroe, Scott Micheal Campbell who ISN'T a cowboy in the movie, is much hotter in reallife
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Both Randall and Monroe look better in real life, but hot is stretching it, in my view.
All this made me curious about Tom Carey, the guy who plays Jimbo. But imdb doesn't have a photo of him, and I couldn't find him in a quick google search, either. I can't imagine he looks THAT different in real life, though. No beard like Randall to shave, no dorky hairdo like Monroe to restyle.
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Both Randall and Monroe look better in real life, but hot is stretching it, in my view.
I agree with you about Scott Michael Campbell (Monroe) (I'd call him cute), but David Harbour looks much better with that beard and mustache. In fact, seeing him with and without is a good argument in favor of facial hair! ;D Without the facial hair, he really does remind me of Boris Karloff, who, of course, was the original Frankenstein monster (the prototype of Herman Munster).
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I think Randall, Monroe and Jimbo are all unhot for a reason -- the better to emphasize the hotness of our heroes (not that that needs much emphasizing, I realize). It's kind of similar to the long-honored tradition of having best friends of leading characters be relatively plain, otherwise known as the Lucy Ricardo/Ethel Mertz syndrome.
But clearly -- based on appearance, anyway -- Randall would be a step down for Jack, Monroe was a step down for Alma, and Jimbo was no great loss.
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Randall would be a step down when you compare him to Ennis, of course! But the guy who plays Monroe does actually seem a lot less dowdy in real life. Out of these two, who's more attractive?
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I think Randall, Monroe and Jimbo are all unhot for a reason -- the better to emphasize the hotness of our heroes (not that that needs much emphasizing, I realize). It's kind of similar to the long-honored tradition of having best friends of leading characters be relatively plain, otherwise known as the Lucy Ricardo/Ethel Mertz syndrome.
But clearly -- based on appearance, anyway -- Randall would be a step down for Jack, Monroe was a step down for Alma, and Jimbo was no great loss.
While we all have our own tastes, I would argue that in terms of appearance, Randall couldn't be--and isn't--a very big step down for Jack, or else there would be no conflict for Jack to deal with. For dramatic purposes Randall has to be at least reasonably attractive, and I think he is. (Take off the facial hair, and that's another matter. ...) If Randall looked like, say, Timmy (Ennis's coworker on the road crew), his approach to Jack would be farcical, where what is needed is a plausible threat.
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While we all have our own tastes, I would argue that in terms of appearance, Randall couldn't be--and isn't--a very big step down for Jack, or else there would be no conflict for Jack to deal with. For dramatic purposes Randall has to be at least reasonably attractive, and I think he is. (Take off the facial, and that's another matter. ...) If Randall looked like, say, Timmy (Ennis's coworker on the road crew), his approach to Jack would be farcical, where what is needed is a plausible threat.
Well, I would argue that in terms of appearance every man on the planet is a big step down from Ennis (present company excepted, of course :)).
But you're right, we all have our own tastes. Timmy isn't just a step down, he's the whole staircase down -- he's intended to be so ludicrously unattractive he's not even fun to work with, let alone share a tent with. So in that context, yes, Randall is at least a viable candidate. For that matter, so are Jimbo and Monroe.
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Well, I would argue that in terms of appearance every man on the planet is a big step down from Ennis (present company excepted, of course :)).
Pffffft! ::)
But you're right, we all have our own tastes. Timmy isn't just a step down, he's the whole staircase down -- he's intended to be so ludicrously unattractive he's not even fun to work with, let alone share a tent with. So in that context, yes, Randall is at least a viable candidate. For that matter, so are Jimbo and Monroe.
Tell you what, I think they could have found somebody better looking, or with a hunkier body, for Jimbo (ref. the various "Hot Guys" threads over at "Anything Goes" ;D). I've always figured Monroe's attractiveness to Alma was his attentiveness, at least mainly.
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Actually, I thought Jimbo and Randall were a much more accurate portrayal of what males on the western plains look like. When I first saw them, I thought, ah those must be real locals from Alberta. Their look is the exact opposite of the so-called metrosexual look. I mean the harsh climate and outdoorsey lifestyle make you look windburnt and haggard. We are talking rural and blue-collar, not exactly the Hollywood look. Of course, the women compensate with heavy utilization of makeup and preocuupation with hair maintenance and spending lots of movie on clothing in Dallas or Denver.
I thought that Jake had been miscast as he too much of a pretty boy to be a cowboy, Heath to a lesser extent. Of course, in love stories, you like the lovers to be attractive, unless it's a veteran actor or actress whose doing a swan song performance or something.
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My own two cents' worth:
I think David Harbour is an attractive man, and, in my opinion, looks even better sans facial hair. Randall is a masculine guy, with a seemingly pleasant temperant, who expresses interest in Jack--all undoubted pluses in Jack's book. Randall seems like the kind of person that could grow on you over time. We BBM fans tend not to be partial to him in large part, I would reckon, because he's not Ennis, the real and abiding love of Jack's heart. But Randall is a human being with feelings, too (listen to me, rhapsodizing like this over FICTIONAL characters!), and making his way through existence hoping to snatch little moments of happiness like any of us. In his longing and vulnerability, he becomes, as we all do when reflecting the quintessence of our being, beautiful.
Scott
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But Randall is a human being with feelings, too (listen to me, rhapsodizing like this over FICTIONAL characters!), and making his way through existence hoping to snatch little moments of happiness like any of us.
Well, sure. Randall seems like a nice guy. So does Monroe. (Not Jimbo, though.)
Tell you what, I think they could have found somebody better looking, or with a hunkier body, for Jimbo (ref. the various "Hot Guys" threads over at "Anything Goes" ;D). I've always figured Monroe's attractiveness to Alma was his attentiveness, at least mainly.
I was too busy disliking Jimbo to notice whether his body was hunky or not. But I think he's supposed to look somewhat like Ennis from across a bar (white hat, light-colored shirt) and not at alll like Ennis up close. I don't think he's supposed to be hot. His appearance helps suggest that Jack would be "settling" -- and in fact, didn't even get the opportunity to settle (illustrating the frustrations of being gay and single in his millieu and helping explain why he went for Lureen)!
As for Randall, I agree that he's supposed to be at least a viable possibility for Jack, but not so hot that he represents serious competition for Ennis, outside of his apparent availability. Of course appearance would be just part of his potential appeal, but it's the attribute that's easiest to convey in the little time we have to spend with Randall, so the filmmakers have to rely heavily on it.
And yeah, I think Monroe's attractiveness to Alma was probably some combination of attentiveness, financial stability, reliability and heterosexuality.
I thought that Jake had been miscast as he too much of a pretty boy to be a cowboy, Heath to a lesser extent.
But surely SOME men in the West happen to be born good-looking. Setting aside whatever cosmetic enhancements Jake and Heath may have at their disposal, couldn't they as easily have come from Wyoming?
Anyway, Annie Proulx obviously had in mind a far more realistically gritty appearance for her two cowboys. Oddly enough, in all the debates I've seen on this board about the pros and cons of changes made by the filmmakers, I don't see too many complaints about that one ... ;)
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My own two cents' worth:
I think David Harbour is an attractive man, and, in my opinion, looks even better sans facial hair. Randall is a masculine guy, with a seemingly pleasant temperant, who expresses interest in Jack--all undoubted pluses in Jack's book. Randall seems like the kind of person that could grow on you over time. We BBM fans tend not to be partial to him in large part, I would reckon, because he's not Ennis, the real and abiding love of Jack's heart. But Randall is a human being with feelings, too (listen to me, rhapsodizing like this over FICTIONAL characters!), and making his way through existence hoping to snatch little moments of happiness like any of us. In his longing and vulnerability, he becomes, as we all do when reflecting the quintessence of our being, beautiful.
Scott
Beautiful two cents' worth!!
~ j U d E
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Timmy isn't just a step down, he's the whole staircase down -- he's intended to be so ludicrously unattractive he's not even fun to work with, let alone share a tent with.
LOL!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Does anyone else find it hilarious that, in addition to everything else, that man is named "Timmy" anyway? How do we know he's named Timmy? Or is this a BetterMost joke? I'm ashamed to admit I've never watched the BBM credits all the way through or very carefully.
I was too busy disliking Jimbo to notice whether his body was hunky or not. But I think he's supposed to look somewhat like Ennis from across a bar (white hat, light-colored shirt) and not at alll like Ennis up close. I don't think he's supposed to be hot. His appearance helps suggest that Jack would be "settling" -- and in fact, didn't even get the opportunity to settle (illustrating the frustrations of being gay and single in his millieu and helping explain why he went for Lureen)!
Very excellent points. Jimbo is just freaky looking to me... yes he is a bit too shiny and his hat is too white. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to be gay and single in Jack's environment... I'm glad the Jimbo scene is there to illustrate this issue. And, I think it's true that both Jimbo and Randall are meant to be "Ennis-substitutes"... and rather disappointing substitutes. Isn't this what we think Jack means when he says "I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." ? As viewers we can read between Jack's lines here to hear him complaining that Randall isn't very satisfying to him (and that he certainly hasn't stopped loving Ennis even though he's now been seeing Randall for quite a long time... I know the question of how long is a bit of a matter of debate). Jack has explored Ennis-alternatives and Ennis-substitutes and none are any good (Mexico is the worst of all because it's humiliating... the Jimbo-type rejections are also probably pretty humiliating)... and he's dealing with the frustration of the separations from Ennis on top of all of this. I think all of these disappointments lead to Jack's stressed/ washed-out appearance/ demeanor by the end of the film.
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(listen to me, rhapsodizing like this over FICTIONAL characters!),
Scott
Please, never apologize or even question rhapsodizing over fictional characters...isn't this what we have all been doing for months? For me, since Dec 27th to be exact...
L
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LOL!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Does anyone else find it hilarious that, in addition to everything else, that man is named "Timmy" anyway? How do we know he's named Timmy? Or is this a BetterMost joke? I'm ashamed to admit I've never watched the BBM credits all the way through or very carefully.
Check the credits in the film or in Story to Screenplay. The character is named Timmy. And I'm not jokin'. :laugh:
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Check the credits in the film or in Story to Screenplay. The character is named Timmy. And I'm not jokin'. :laugh:
Very timely advice Jeff! I'm excitedly awaiting my copy of that book from Amazon any day now.
Yeehaw!
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Very timely advice Jeff! I'm excitedly awaiting my copy of that book from Amazon any day now.
Yeehaw!
You mean you don't have a copy yet? I'm shocked! :o :o :o No Brokie home should be without it. I guarantee you will find it invaluable, even where you know it departs from what we see on the screen (ref. my oft-repeated comment that my favorite Ennis line, "Jack fuckin' Twist," uttered on the apartment landing as he looks down at Jack in the parking lot, is not in the published screenplay).
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I have noticed over the last few months, that the men here say Randall is HOT, and the women say he is NOT.
Also, I know this is unpopular, but I'm sayin' it anyway, I think Jimbo is just fine looking, and I even kind of like him as a person. I haven't figured out why he is so disliked. My take on him is that he IS gay, desperate to stay closeted, and is afraid of how Jack is flirting with him right in front of the bartender. His entire performance is based on trying to avoid the tire iron. And he stays courteous to Jack, but does overtly divorce himself from him and his out ways in front of the bartender, just for survival.
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I have noticed over the last few months, that the men here say Randall is HOT, and the women say he is NOT.
Also, I know this is unpopular, but I'm sayin' it anyway, I think Jimbo is just fine looking, and I even kind of like him as a person. I haven't figured out why he is so disliked. My take on him is that he IS gay, desperate to stay closeted, and is afraid of how Jack is flirting with him right in front of the bartender. His entire performance is based on trying to avoid the tire iron. And he stays courteous to Jack, but does overtly divorce himself from him and his out ways in front of the bartender, just for survival.
Interesting, Elle, and I actually think this is very plausible and may be the case. I think the reason that is that afterwards, when he goes over the to pool table, he says something that gets the other guys to look at Jack in that mean way, and that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the guy.
L
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Randall Hot? NO F'ING WAY!
Handsome if you like guys in beards, I'll grant you that much. But I don't like guys with full thick beards. Now a neatly trimmed Goatee or light face fuzz like Jake and Heath sometimes wear, that is OK. But I prefer em clean and smooth. No pornstaches either! Ugh.
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Interesting thoughts, Clarissa, about Jimbo. I need to study on that some more. My initial knee-jerk reaction was No, Jimbo is not gay, but then came the thought that something must have made Jack think Jimbo might have been receptive. Nowadays we'd call that gaydar, and presumably Jack's isn't very well developed.
On the other hand, perhaps that something was merely the white hat and the shirt at some level triggering a memory of Ennis--obviously the actor was costumed the way he was in the bar for a reason; he might just as easily been put in a dark shirt and dark hat.
Personally I don't consider Randall hot. Handsome in that full-bearded kind of way, to be sure, and I wouldn't say No to a short, meaningful relationship, but not hot.
Again on the other hand, everyone has his or her own idea of hot, and over the years I've slowly come to realize that for me, hot is connected with dark hair. So--being fully aware that I am about to set myself up for crucifixion ;D --I'll fess up to the implication of that last statement that for me, Heath is handsome and attractive, but Jake is HOT!
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Again on the other hand, everyone has his or her own idea of hot, and over the years I've slowly come to realize that for me, hot is connected with dark hair. So--being fully aware that I am about to set myself up for crucifixion ;D --I'll fess up to the implication of that last statement that for me, Heath is handsome and attractive, but Jake is HOT!
Jeff Wrangler, you just dance on over to the Heath Heath Heath thread, scroll through those hundreds of images and try to tell me that Heath Ledger is not the epitome of hotness? I don't think it can humanly be done.
L
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Jeff Wrangler, you just dance on over to the Heath Heath Heath thread, scroll through those hundreds of images and try to tell me that Heath Ledger is not the epitome of hotness? I don't think it can humanly be done.
L
Maybe if he dyes his hair, Honey. ;D
Never said he wasn't attractive, but for hotness, I need dark hair. (I parse my definitions very fine.)
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I've slowly come to realize that for me, hot is connected with dark hair.
Actually, I usually feel that way, too. But I am willing to make an exception for anyone who is preternaturally hot. Such as ... well, you know.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/166461846_f756b1dc2d.jpg)
(This is where I would insert one of those breathtaking images :-* from the Heath Heath Heath thread if I knew how to do that.)
Above edited, as per Leslie's photo-pasting instructions.
Back to more serious matters. Elle, I think I agree with your assessment of Jimbo's sexuality. Jack must have had something more to go on than a white hat and shirt. He wasn't that bold with Ennis, after all. And you're right, Jimbo does stay just within the limits of courtesy, at least while talking to Jack. Still, I can't feel much fondness for
him
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(This is where I would insert one of those breathtaking images :-* from the Heath Heath Heath thread if I knew how to do that.)
Right click, choose "copy image location," head on over here, click Ctrl-C to paste. You may have to highlight and click the IMAGE icon up above. Or just put [img ] at and the beginning and [/img ] at the end (without the spaces).
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Thank you, thank you, Leslie! Man, will THAT be a valuable skill to have.
(I would have posted it sooner, but of course I just had to go through all 19 pages of Heath Heath Heath ... and then it was hard to narrow down ... but most of them are of Heath in real life, and ultimately I decided that in the context of this thread it was appropriate to pick an Ennis image rather than a Heath image ... and even then there was a bounty to choose from!)
Anyway. Back to discussions of relatively UNattractive men.
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Anyway. Back to discussions of relatively UNattractive men.
So I go to google, type in "unattractive men" and select images and THIS is what I come up with??? Jeez, we may have to make this NC17! LOL
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/mp_skull_crotch.jpg)
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Dammit Leslie! That was going to be my costume this year at the BBM Halloween party.
Geez! now I gotta think of something else! ::)
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Dammit Leslie! That was going to be costume this year at the BBM Halloween party.
Geez! now I gotta think of something else! ::)
I got something for ya, David, honey...
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/lnicoll/mp_octopus.jpg)
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Ok, now your just making me scared! :P
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Ok, now your just making me scared! :P
the caption on that picture was....? any guesses, David?
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My initial knee-jerk reaction was No, Jimbo is not gay, but then came the thought that something must have made Jack think Jimbo might have been receptive. Nowadays we'd call that gaydar, and presumably Jack's isn't very well developed.
I've wondered about Jack's decision to approach Jimbo too. On the contrary, I think Jack's gaydar must be really good... I mean if for no other reason than he figured Ennis Del Mar out! Also, the whole Randall situation was figured-out and handled in a few bats of his eyelashes across a dinner table. I think it's certainly possible that Jimbo is a super-closeted gay guy (and Jack had some clue about this through watching him in other contexts at the rodeo) who's terrified by his surroundings. I think there's a split second in the exchange of glances between Jack and Jimbo that might (and I do mean might) indicate that Jimbo is repressing a little bit of interest... But, I absolutely agree with this:
when he goes over the to pool table, he says something that gets the other guys to look at Jack in that mean way, and that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the guy.
Something about Jack's boldness in approaching Jimbo makes me love Jack even more. He just can't help being himself. He won't let the pressures of that bar/ environment hinder him in doing what is absolutely natural. His sense of recklessness is wonderful to me (if only I could be that brave), but of course in a bar like that it sadly can also be seen as scary and dangerous.
How would Ennis have reacted in a bar situation like that? Would he have behaved in a similar fashion to Jimbo if a guy (let's leave Jack out of this scenario for now) came up and started flirting with him in a fairly open way? If Jimbo is a closeted guy to the same extent or more as Ennis, can we imagine that their reactions would be more or less similar? Would Ennis have been more obviously intrigued than Jimbo? If Cassie had been a guy and had come onto Ennis (even with a fraction of the boldness that Cassie exhibits), what would Ennis have done?
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Re Jimbo going over and talking to the pool table guys - I invite you all to (if you haven't already) watch that piece of the scene twice:
Once with a sense of foreboding, "OMG! He's telling his friends about Jack coming on to him. Oh shit, be safe, Jack!"
Then again watch it with a view that Jimbo isn't mentioning Jack at all, none of the guys he's talking to is even aware of Jack. Jack is completely safe in the situation.
The second time you watch, you see that the guys don't even look Jack's way. I think a big point of the scene is the ambiguity of that piece of it - what Jack and Ennis have to recurringly deal with - "Are the people out on the pavement looking like they know, or aren't they?" "Will this lead to the tire iron, or won't it?"
A few seconds that enbeds itself in us, and helps us feel what they live with. Like that homophobic joke that is playing on the radio as Ennis is packing for the trip with Jack (the time when Alma says, "You forgettin' something?") He's just living life, and has to listen to "humor" about men like himself, and not be able to react to it. He doesn't even look like he hears it.
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. I think a big point of the scene is the ambiguity of that piece of it - what Jack and Ennis have to recurringly deal with - "Are the people out on the pavement looking like they know, or aren't they?"
Wow, you guys, fascinating thread. It's hard to keep up with all the potentially juicy topics here.
Re the ambiguity Clarissa mentions above, YES, absolutely. At first, I saw that scene as Jimbo telling the others what just happened, and everyone glancing over at Jack in a scary, threatening way. But wait -- they look scary and threatening, yet nobody is actually looking back at Jack. They could just be exchanging pleasantries.
Yet another example of the movie's cryptic portrayal of society's homophobia. No question it exists, Earl alone proves that. But the focus stays on Ennis' inner homophobia, how society's intolerance has warped his soul. So except for Ennis' dad -- and Jack's possible killers -- none of the supposed villains ever reacts as harmfully as you'd expect. Aguirre doesn't fire them, Alma doesn't out them for years, John Twist might have grudgingly accepted them as ranching partners, and Jimbo may or may not be gossiping about Jack.
Like that homophobic joke that is playing on the radio as Ennis is packing for the trip with Jack (the time when Alma says, "You forgettin' something?") He's just living life, and has to listen to "humor" about men like himself, and not be able to react to it. He doesn't even look like he hears it.
I've never been able to make out everything the radio guy says, Clarrissa, and in fact the only way I was alerted to the joke was from a previous post of yours. My impression is that Ennis is so used to it he thinks nothing of it. He's been hearing that stuff all his life. It's wallpaper. If he were to stop and consider that they're making fun of men like him, he would think the problem is with men like him, not with idiot radio announcers.
How would Ennis have reacted in a bar situation like that? Would he have behaved in a similar fashion to Jimbo if a guy (let's leave Jack out of this scenario for now) came up and started flirting with him in a fairly open way? If Jimbo is a closeted guy to the same extent or more as Ennis, can we imagine that their reactions would be more or less similar? Would Ennis have been more obviously intrigued than Jimbo? If Cassie had been a guy and had come onto Ennis (even with a fraction of the boldness that Cassie exhibits), what would Ennis have done?
IMO, Ennis would be less brusque than Jimbo, though perhaps also less savvy. Jimbo comes a fraction of an inch from openly acknowledging what's going on -- Ennis wouldn't. He might just close up, becoming as shy and taciturn as when he first met Jack.
Jack never comes on to Ennis as strongly as he does to Jimbo. Meanwhile, Ennis' gaydar isn't well tuned. Consequently, before the tent scene it never consciously occurred to Ennis that Jack might feel anything more than friendship toward him. Which is why that five-second moment when Ennis makes his decision is so amazing.
I think Jack's gaydar must be really good... I mean if for no other reason than he figured Ennis Del Mar out!
Now here is a really interesting question that I don't remember ever discussing before. We've debated when Ennis realizes that he himself is gay, but when does Jack know it? Does Ennis set off Jack's gaydar?
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I've never been able to make out everything the radio guy says, Clarrissa, and in fact the only way I was alerted to the joke was from a previous post of yours.
Ach, Katherine, bei mir bist du schon!! Every now and then I try to rouse some interest in that radio joke, and no one replies. Thank you. Not one bit of radio in BBM is just filler. I'm gonna finally start me a whole thread on that topic, I just decided.
Jimbo comes a fraction of an inch from openly acknowledging what's going on
Very cool way of putting that. I agree.
Jack never comes on to Ennis as strongly as he does to Jimbo.
Hm, that's true. Maybe it's bar mode - I've certainly flirted in bars in ways I couldn't imagine myself doing in other situations (in the old days, BTW, not recently).
Meanwhile, Ennis' gaydar isn't well tuned. Consequently, before the tent scene it never consciously occurred to Ennis that Jack might feel anything more than friendship toward him. Which is why that five-second moment when Ennis makes his decision is so amazing.
I don't know. Is this true? I used to agree with this, but now, I don't know. That very suggestive sound that Jack makes as he's offering him the whiskey bottle after Ennis says "I ain't yet had the opportunity" is pretty darn overt. And Ennis looks pretty pleased at it.
Now here is a really interesting question that I don't remember ever discussing before. We've debated when Ennis realizes that he himself is gay, but when does Jack know it? Does Ennis set off Jack's gaydar?
Good one. Hm, I don't think Jack would have initiated in the tent without some belief that it might work out. Right? i mean that would have been a heck of a risk. I look forward to what others answer here.
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I've wondered about Jack's decision to approach Jimbo too. On the contrary, I think Jack's gaydar must be really good... I mean if for no other reason than he figured Ennis Del Mar out!
Sounds like you're assuming Jack had Ennis pegged from the moment he laid eyes on him in the parking lot outside Aguirre's office. Personally, I'm not so sure of that--I'll only go so far as that Jack immediately found Ennis attractive.
If you don't buy that Jack immediately figured Ennis out, then Jack had a month of living with Ennis in isolation on the mountain, growing closer to him emotionally, before he made his move, and I don't think that requires particularly well-developed gaydar to have a sense that Ennis would be, er, receptive to Jack's overture.
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Hey you guys, this issue -- when did Ennis and Jack notice each other's gayness? -- seems big enough to deserve its own thread. I can't believe I've never seen one before, in fact. But I'm afraid people who might have insightful opinions about that might never see this discussion because they're not particularly interested in talking about Randall and his resemblance (or lack thereof) to Herman Munster. And others may not have made it past Leslie's scary-codpiece photos! (No offense to either -- god knows I will gladly discuss both Randall AND scary codpieces.)
Does anybody mind if I start it up separately? Or if I take the action over to the Open Forum, because it seems the kind of thing that would fit in beautifully there? And will you please please post in it?
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Good idea Katherine... I'll go seek out the new thread before I reply.
:)