BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => Topic started by: Front-Ranger on April 21, 2009, 11:59:27 am
-
I was just thinking about stones today...maybe it's because I live in the Rocky Mountains.
On Jack and stones...early in the story, Jack comes back to camp after a hard day of sheep wrangling, and eats two cans of peaches and some of Ennis' stone biscuits.
And late in the movie/story, Lureen tells Ennis that they "put a stone up" when he asks her about funeral services for Jack.
That seems like an odd statement. What do you think it means?
-
And late in the movie/story, Lureen tells Ennis that they "put a stone up" when he asks her about funeral services for Jack.
That seems like an odd statement. What do you think it means?
You haven't heard that use before? It means they erected a grave marker--a headstone--where she buried the portion of Jack's ashes that she didn't send up to his folks in Lightning Flat.
I guess that's an aspect I don't recall seeing discussed before. Lureen didn't send all of Jack's ashes to his parents in Wyoming. She had some of them buried in Texas. She probably had to pay extra to the undertaker to have the ashes divided into two parcels.
-
"They put a stone up..."
To me Lureen's wording makes Jack's Texas funeral sound so ... empty. Not that I blame the character of Lureen herself. It's just that I think it was written to indicate that Jack's postmortem services were so incomplete at that point. A fitting, subtle setup for the emotional resolution and healing of Ennis and Ma Twist's ritual with the shirts.
-
Yes, I agree with you, friend. To me it also reminds me of the stony face Ennis adopted sometimes when talking of his dad, his early life, etc.
And, now that I think about it, the stony face of Jack as he watched Ennis drive away...
-
Some comments off the cuff: when I think "stones" I think of Ennis, not Jack. And I think of poor, stony, brownish soil I saw in some places in Wyoming, with beautiful little flowers blooming there nonetheless.
*goes searching for a pic*
*back*
They're beautiful, aren't they?
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m47/Penthesilea06/IM000038-1.jpg)
And this is where they grow:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m47/Penthesilea06/IM000038-2.jpg)
It's the same pic twice, the first is a detail from the second. I think the place is just brown, dusty and stony almost all year round - but it has the capacitiy to breed such beautiful flowers for some weeks. Reminds me of Ennis. He's linked with bronish tones and with earth. And just like this place, he may appear dusty, poor and stony but has the capacity to fourish a few weeks a year, when he's with Jack. He has the capacitiy of beauty and tenderness in him, just like this seemingly poor and stony soil.
(BTW, the pic was taken on the short, two day Wyoming trip at the BBQ 2007; on the dirt road between Kaycee and Ten Sleep, where the plains come to an end and the first snow-capped mountains come in sight)
-
Another picture that comes to my mind thinking stones, is Ennis putting up the rocks for the fireplace on their first campsite.
And by pure chance and on a slightly silly note, I just came across this old photo caption yesterday:
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7003/ennisrocks0fr.jpg)
"Bring a couple more buckets a water, tonight I'm making a specialty I learned from my grandma, rock soup."
-
Very funny, friend! Your wildflower pictures are great! That flower is called chickweed, latin name Cerastium arvense. It makes a delicious tea.
-
I think that put a stone up. Is the southern vernacular for headstone. My family was from Texas. They often
used that term. "Putting up a headstone," or we got them a "headstone." The term "stone," is simply a shortened version of that, and an understanding that you would understand that was the inference.
-
This is interesting. Thank you, everyone. Now I am wondering why AP had Jack eat two bowls of stew, two bottles of beer, four of Ennis's stone biscuits, and a can of peaches one evening early in their Brokeback Mountain adventure. It is interesting to me that all these things except the peaches were even numbered things. Did he eat stew because he was stewing about things? the stone biscuits, that means they were made by flour ground on a stone, correct? And peaches have stones.
-
Very funny, friend! Your wildflower pictures are great! That flower is called chickweed, latin name Cerastium arvense. It makes a delicious tea.
Hi Lee, I respectfully disagree. I don't think that's chickweed (Stellaria media) OR Cerastium arvense. To me it looks like a kind of phlox.
-
Now I am wondering why AP had Jack eat two bowls of stew, two bottles of beer, four of Ennis's stone biscuits, and a can of peaches one evening early in their Brokeback Mountain adventure...
Obviously Proulx is indicating Jack's ravenous nature and appreciation of what Ennis provides. But if we "read in" as Brokies tend to do...
The menu to me seems to hint at sexual tension. Even numbers (pairs) of most everything. Then the peaches — with their smell, ripeness, fuzz and round cleavage on the outside — connote youth, freshness and sexuality. Here, they're "canned" = preserved from a while ago, put on hold. Our boys, at least so far, have put overt sexuality on hold while up away from town. So the "stew" is especially appropriate. I pictured the "stone biscuits" as being round (or hard) like stones (didn't know about the...hmmm... grinding method!) It can be thought of as another testicular reference (do you have the stones to do it, or not?)
And of course (to really reach), peaches are a fruit (queer).
To me it also reminds me of the stony face Ennis adopted sometimes when talking of his dad, his early life, etc.
And, now that I think about it, the stony face of Jack as he watched Ennis drive away...
If we're branching off with alternate uses of the word... Jack + Ennis get stoned on their last evening together.
And of course Jack may have suffered a tribal-style execution at the hands of a group of men... a contemporary, roadside version of "stoning". :(
-
I think that put a stone up. Is the southern vernacular for headstone. My family was from Texas. They often
used that term. "Putting up a headstone," or we got them a "headstone." The term "stone," is simply a shortened version of that, and an understanding that you would understand that was the inference.
It must also be Midwestern because we say that around here too. And Jeff said he's heard/used it in Pennsylvania. Maybe it's something used in the eastern part of the country. I don't know.
Those are very pretty flowers Chrissi. :)
-
You could be right about those flowers, Elle!
-
This is interesting. Thank you, everyone. Now I am wondering why AP had Jack eat two bowls of stew, two bottles of beer, four of Ennis's stone biscuits, and a can of peaches one evening early in their Brokeback Mountain adventure. It is interesting to me that all these things except the peaches were even numbered things. Did he eat stew because he was stewing about things? the stone biscuits, that means they were made by flour ground on a stone, correct? And peaches have stones.
About the stone biscuits... I recall that when we were together last year in Cheynne, we asked one of the chuckwagon participants at Frontier Days about some biscuits or bread-like products they were making. I think we asked if that was related to the term "stone biscuits". But, I don't remember what the answer was!
:laugh:
Anyway, this is a good topic. The concept of stones certainly does come up in a variety of ways in both the story and film. I agree that I think of it more as an Ennis concept... related to the Ennis=earth idea. The visual of him building the stone fire circle is great! I like that Ennis sets up the stones to contain the fire... and Jack brings the buckets with the water. Both fire and water seem to be important elements in the symbolism surrounding their relationship. So, in this early setting-up scene we see them both contributing to building the elements of the relationship.
It's interesting that the stone concept gets transfered to Jack in reference to his Texas funeral.
-
Just jumping back in here to say this is a great post Laura! 8)
Obviously Proulx is indicating Jack's ravenous nature and appreciation of what Ennis provides. But if we "read in" as Brokies tend to do...
The menu to me seems to hint at sexual tension. Even numbers (pairs) of most everything. Then the peaches — with their smell, ripeness, fuzz and round cleavage on the outside — connote youth, freshness and sexuality. Here, they're "canned" = preserved from a while ago, put on hold. Our boys, at least so far, have put overt sexuality on hold while up away from town. So the "stew" is especially appropriate. I pictured the "stone biscuits" as being round (or hard) like stones (didn't know about the...hmmm... grinding method!) It can be thought of as another testicular reference (do you have the stones to do it, or not?)
And of course (to really reach), peaches are a fruit (queer).
If we're branching off with alternate uses of the word... Jack + Ennis get stoned on their last evening together.
And of course Jack may have suffered a tribal-style execution at the hands of a group of men... a contemporary, roadside version of "stoning". :(
-
Another reference to stone:
"Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words 'See you tomorrow,' and the horse's shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone."
Again, a link to Ennis and stone.
-
I'm still confused about Lureen's comment, "We put a stone up." If Jack was cremated, would there be a grave? I thought ashes were put in urns in a crematorium. But John Twist planned to put the rest of Jack's ashes in the ground as well. So, I guess ashes can be interred underground with a stone marker, just as whole bodies are. But, I've never heard of it.
-
I'm still confused about Lureen's comment, "We put a stone up." If Jack was cremated, would there be a grave? I thought ashes were put in urns in a crematorium. But John Twist planned to put the rest of Jack's ashes in the ground as well. So, I guess ashes can be interred underground with a stone marker, just as whole bodies are. But, I've never heard of it.
I know it´s quite common here that urns are interred underground with a stone marker.
Perhaps they thought it´d nice to have a grave to visit, especially for Bobby perhaps.
-
I know it's quite common here that urns are interred underground with a stone marker.
Perhaps they thought it´d nice to have a grave to visit, especially for Bobby perhaps.
There's a tendency over here too to 'bury' the urn, so people can put a stone up. Urns have also been put in special walls too but people have expressed a wish to have a grave, a special place to put flowers down and visit, not just a plaque on a wall.
The cremation and burial of Jack have always puzzled me. Was it customary to be cremated in Texas in the 80s? And come to think of it, how about the fact that Lureen buried only half of Jack's ashes. That's definitely something I've never heard of. To me it feels really strange to split the ashes...
-
Same here. Seems to be a European vs. American thing. I've heard of walls where urns can be put in, but it's pretty rare. I don't know anybody who went into a wall or put a family member into it.
Usually, you put an urn into a grave and put a stone up. Just like Lureen said.
The difference to "normal" graves is that they are much smaller. Mostly, they are in a different section of the cementary.
When I was a kid, I always thought all those urn graves were children's graves, because they're so small. A horrible thought; a whole field full of childrens' and babies' graves. Even though I know better now, I still think they look like childrens' graves, and that's one reason why I never want to be cremated, or let a loved one be cremated (except it were their specific wish, which I would respect).
-
Yes, I feel like I've heard of all three methods of dealing with cremated ashes (scattering the ashes, burial with a stone, and placement in a wall - usually in a special section of a cemetary).
Both of my father's parents were cremated, and I'm embarassed to say I don't know what happened to the ashes. I'll have to ask my Dad. His mother died long before I was born and his father died when I was still a toddler... so somehow I don't know as much about this subject as I should.