BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => Topic started by: chowhound on April 10, 2011, 03:22:24 pm
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In an interview with Michelle Williams in the April 3 issue of The Sunday Times (London), the writer has this to say about Brokeback Mountain:
"Her insistence on eye contact also gives the lie to the idea that she's a shrinking violet. And it's precisely this ability to suggest the delicate and the robust that lies at the heart of her finest work. Think of Brokeback Mountain where her mutely panicked reaction shot on witnessing her husband's infidelity with another man provided that movie with its heftiest emotional wallop."
It's a fine moment but for me it's not the scene with "the heftiest emotional wallop". If I can only pick one, I think it would be the reunion kiss, in part because we don't know how the reunion will go. We share with Heath his anxiety as he waits for Jack and we share with him his joy once he sees that Jack has actually arrived. From the point where he says "Jack f...ing Twist" to where he sweeps Jack up in his arms for the reunion kiss itself provides for me the "movie's heftiest emotional wallop" but others may wish to lay claim to a different scene.
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The reunion kiss is definitely a heart-stopping moment, but for me the big wallop came when Ennis found the shirts and saw the blood stained sleeves folded into each other. As he crouched in the closet and embraced the shirts, all the memories of Jack and the years they could have had came flooding back. Pressing the cold iron hanger to his face where it made the indentation of a question mark into his cheek. His hands came together in a prayerful position surrounding the shirts, and the steel guitar gave a mournful lament.
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Yeah, that's a strange line in the article. It was a hefty emotional wallop, sure, but the movie's heftiEST? Not by a long shot. Especially since the wallop, as this writer sees it, seems to come mostly from the emotions that Alma's experiencing in that scene.
Um, it's fine to be sympathetic to the wronged wife -- understandable, even. But Alma's plight is not exactly the focus of the story, nor is she the character the one who endures the most or sharpest pain.
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It's Alma's heftiest emotional wallop, but not the film's.
For me, it's the totality of the Lake Scene, and how it segues into the Dozy Embrace. Now THAT's a wallop. Works for me every time, both on paper and on film.
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It's Alma's heftiest emotional wallop, but not the film's.
Good take on it, Paul. For Alma that experience must have felt like a kick in the stomach.
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I guess it depends on who is watching the film, and their own circumstances, when it comes to feeling the pain of the characters, or who "endures the most or the sharpest pain"
I can still remember seeing BBM for the first time, having not read the story, and was so elated with the reunion scene, that it turned out the way we were all hoping it would, and THEN Alma looked out the door, and the change in emotions I was feeling, from happiness and elation to a gut wrenching OH NOOOOOOOO....well it nearly made me throw up. It was completely unexpected, and sent my thoughts into a tailspin. Such an abrupt end to the euphoria of the reunion scene. We had got so caught up with the excitement for the boys, that we never gave Alma a thought, and then there she was, in a way, spoiling it for us, like the third wheel, we didnt want her there, but she was there.
I think Alma was feeling just like we were, the build up of the day, seeing how excited and restless Ennis was, seeing the joy and excitement when Jack arrived, she wanted to be part of that excitement and then competely unexpected that joy turned to bewilderment and devastation.
Alma was the innocent party in this threesome, she did nothing to promote it, and could do nothing to prevent it. And in that torment in her life, she also had the two girls to care for.
Everyone in this movie went through their own devastating pain.
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It was completely unexpected, and sent my thoughts into a tailspin. Such an abrupt end to the euphoria of the reunion scene. We had got so caught up with the excitement for the boys, that we never gave Alma a thought, and then there she was, in a way, spoiling it for us, like the third wheel, we didnt want her there, but she was there.
That's a good way to put it, she really kind of spoiled the reunion scene for us. I remember youtube videos with Alma being edited out.
But the biggest emotional wallop? For me it was the deceased postcard. I literally gasped and thought Nooo! That was really like being hit in the stomach. It was a complete shock. Consequently, my reaction was denial. On my first viewing I waited for a Hollywood-like miracle for the rest of the movie.
Later, with repeated viewings, things shifted a bit. I could (and to this day can) hardly stand the lake scene and flashback. Gets me every time.
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It's Alma's heftiest emotional wallop, but not the film's.
Absolutely. The reunion kiss is Alma´s lowest point and Jack´s and Ennis´s highest point all at once.
And for me too, the movie´s "heftiest emotional wallop" is the way the lake scene leads to the Dozy Embrace and then back again to Jack as he watches Ennis drive away (and being the last time we see Jack alive). It shows us how things could have been only to take it away from us.
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The Dozy Embrace was in one way a wallop, because it transports back to those hylcion days when they owned the world, and provided a sharp counterpoint to all that has followed.
But the hardest wallop is finding the shirts. Especially finding his shirt hidden in Jack's, I saw that and I remembered them coming down from the mountain and he was wearing a different one, one not seen before. Jack had kept it all that time. It was real. That was how it hit me.
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For me, it was the tiny little flinch that Ennis gives when he listens to Jack's dad tell him about how Jack had changed his story from Ennis Del Mar coming out to help on the ranch, to the new guy Jack had said was going to come out and help.
That almost-imperceptible flinch reminded me of every breakup in my life. Struck my heart to the core, thinking of the pain I'd caused and the pain I'd endured.
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For me, it was the tiny little flinch that Ennis gives when he listens to Jack's dad tell him about how Jack had changed his story from Ennis Del Mar coming out to help on the ranch, to the new guy Jack had said was going to come out and help.
That almost-imperceptible flinch reminded me of every breakup in my life. Struck my heart to the core, thinking of the pain I'd caused and the pain I'd endured.
That's a very interesting moment, Mandy. Ennis's nostrils flair just the tiniest bit, in recognition of what he heard.
Seems everyone can have their own hefty moment.
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I agree that it doesn't seem to be the scene with "heftiest emotional wallop".
I don't even think it's even Alma's heftiest emotional scene.
Michelle Williams plays the scene perfectly, the shock on her face and her reaction is (to me) perfect. However, the scene that I think is Alma's most emotional is after the night away, when Ennis tells her he's going away with Jack for the weekend.
She follows him around the house and tries to give reasons why he shouldn't go. Alma Jr. runs in, Ennis hugs her, passes her off to Alma and runs out.
All Alma can do at that point is bury her face into her daughter's shoulder and cry. My heart breaks for Alma at that point, and to be honest, there are times that's the first scene that will make me cry .
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It's Alma's heftiest emotional wallop, but not the film's.
For me, it's the totality of the Lake Scene, and how it segues into the Dozy Embrace. Now THAT's a wallop. Works for me every time, both on paper and on film.
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/tu2.jpg)
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There are and have always been two equally hard "whallops." The first
was when Ennis sent Jack away after the trip from Texas, and the tears he shed.
Its the spot where he and we knew that it was never going to turn out well. Then of course the second was the postcard with DECEASED
written across it. Its all over, and the gut loses all its air, and the tears start to
fall.
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Then of course the second was the postcard with DECEASED
written across it. Its all over, and the gut loses all its air, and the tears start to
fall.
You know something about that I never understood was how Ennis could so quickly compose himself in order to go down the street to a pay phone within minutes and call up his long-time lover's wife? I would think he would have just crumbled on the street or walked to his truck and curled up in the seat and cried like a baby. I never understood how he could be so strong in those moments, almost to the point of imperviousness, it seems. Any thoughts, Janice or anyone?
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Good point Mandy.....
I have to admit, that I was one of those first time viewers of the movie that did not see "DECEASED" stamped on the postcard.
It wasn't until he was making the phone call that it hit me what had happened.
Was it a case of Ennis justifying what he had always thought, that they could not live together safely, we see that when his own thoughts of what happened are contradicting what Loreen is telling him. Was he half expecting something like this to happen?
I think the reason it would be so much of a wallop to the story line and us viewers, was the finality of what we were all hoping might happen, the "they lived happily ever after" conclusion was not going to happen. But as far as Ennis was concerned, they were never going to live happily ever after, so when Jack died, of course heartbreaking, it was also the end of the SECRET, the double life Ennis had been living. Look how easily, he could phone Laureen, even talk to her about Brokeback Mountain, for the first time admit he was a friend of Jacks. And then to go to Jack's home, something he would never have done while Jack was alive.
Finding the shirts, was Ennis's wallop....here it was, the two of them together as " lovers", in Jack's family home. It was then, that Ennis mourned the loss of the love of his life, and taking the shirts, and that nod to Jacks mother was the first time he acknowledged to anyone the feelings he had for Jack.
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I didn't see him as composed at all. I saw him as barely holding it together as he was making that call. Also, stoic Ennis just wouldn't break down in the street-not his personality.
One of the (many) differences between the short story and movie characters is their emotionality. Annie wrote those guys to be rough products of their environments. Ang directed them as much more emotional and sympathetic. We have so romanticized these characters and our interpretations are colored significantly by that. I don't think it is unusual for people to save their breakdowns for more private times and for when the initial shock wears off.
On January 22 2008 I walked back into my work place from lunch to be met at the door by one of my friends who said "hey, your boy Heath died". I said "what?" and he told me the story. I just walked into my office and got back to work. Later that afternoon I had to make a phone call to a customer that I was friendly with and in the middle of the conversation I started to cry (completely freaked him out). I shut my door and put my head on my desk. I cried everyday for a year.
Grief doesn't have a pattern.
You know something about that I never understood was how Ennis could so quickly compose himself in order to go down the street to a pay phone within minutes and call up his long-time lover's wife? I would think he would have just crumbled on the street or walked to his truck and curled up in the seat and cried like a baby. I never understood how he could be so strong in those moments, almost to the point of imperviousness, it seems. Any thoughts, Janice or anyone?
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I see Ennis's willingness to almost immediately phone Lureen as an aspect of denial. A common reaction to the sudden and unexpected death of a loved on is denial - 'no,no, surely it can't be!" Ennis may even been hoping that it would be Jack's voice he'd hear at the end of the line and that the postcard was some dreadful mistake.
This suggestion is in line with the short story:
"Ennis didn't know about the accident for months until his postcard to Jack saying that November still looked like the first chance came back stamped DECEASED. He called Jack's number in Childress...This would be all right, Jack would answer, had to answer. But he did not. It was Lureen..."
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But even in the story, and certainly in the movie, we don't know how much time elapses between Ennis getting the postcard and making the call, do we?
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I always had the impression that he walked from the post office to the nearest phone booth immediately. Am I wrong?
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I always had the impression that he walked from the post office to the nearest phone booth immediately.
Me, too, at least in the film. I blush to admit that it's been a while--a long while--but my memory is that we see him sorting through his mail, he finds the post card, and he walks across the street to the phone booth.
But it's been a while. ... ::)
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Me, too, at least in the film. I blush to admit that it's been a while--a long while--but my memory is that we see him sorting through his mail, he finds the post card, and he walks across the street to the phone booth.
But it's been a while. ... ::)
Certainly this is the impression left by the movie. I've just checked Striped Wall and one other site and the sequence of shots goes as follows:
1. Shot of "deceased" postcard.
2. Shot of phone ringing in Lureen's house.
3. Shot of Lureen answering the phone.
4. Shot of Ennis in phone booth with phone to his ear.
I can see that theoretically you can insert a time gap of whatever length you want between shot 1 and shot 2. However, that's not how the patterning of those shots come over to me.
As well, if Ennis is in a state of denial, then he would want that denial confirmed as soon as possible by hearing Jack's voice at the end of the line.
Quite how Ennis knows Jack's number in Texas is another - somewhat frivolous - question. Maybe, like Jack, it's something he kept in his head.
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In the movie, Ennis goes straight from the post office to the phone booth, which is just across the street:
The post office before Ennis goes in. It's a low building with a dark red color. Notice also the windows and flag pole.
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/Penthesilea09/BBM/dcf810d6.jpg)
Ennis comes out, sorths through his mail and stops dead. Across the post office is the JT's bar, and a phone booth to the left. This is the moment when Ennis sees the Deceased stamp. (A second later, WE see the Deceased stamp.)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/Penthesilea09/BBM/babb7092.jpg)
Ennis in the booth. Look over his right shoulder. You can see the red post office building and even the US flag on its diagonal, short pole.
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/Penthesilea09/BBM/b000e7c3.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss192/Penthesilea09/BBM/8af33028.jpg)
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How does it work in the US? Can you call an operator that connects you if you have person´s name and address?
(good work there, Chrissie :-*)
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Inspector Chrissi has solved the case! :D
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Excellent sleuthing, everyone!
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Thank you, everyone. :)
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Good job sleuthing, Chrissi. I thought that was how it went -- that no time had passed, and he went straight from post office to phone booth. I also appreciate the insight from RouxB and Chowhound that Ennis's shock and denial could explain how he could immediately get on the phone to his lover's wife within minutes. Interesting perspectives to ponder.
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Great thread Buds!
And, good work Chrissi. As always, those background details are so important in BBM. ;D
I think the words "heftiest" and "wallop" are interesting. The "hefty" implies solemn or sad to me. But, there are definitely positive emotional wallops in the movie too.
I agree that the reunion kiss is probably the most powerful *positive* emotional moment in the movie. It's just filled with raw, happy emotion... and it's as close to equal for Ennis and Jack as it probably ever gets in BBM. I think TS2 is a close runner-up for the most important positive emotional moment.
And, to me the most powerful sad emotional wallop is Ennis discovering the shirts in Jack's bedroom.