PERFECT, but...

[serious crayons]

OK, that's understandable, but that's assuming Jack THOUGHT Ennis was going to come back.  For all he knew, Ennis said to hell with this and left the mountain, or Ennis was hurt and in the woods somewhere or Ennis was lost.  Jack couldn't have been rehearsing what to say if he didn't know what would eventually happen.  I thought this was meant to be spontaneous - Ennis finally DOES show up to Jack's relief - and it didn't sound that way.

Not to argue this endlessly, Del, but isn't it pretty unlikely that Ennis would have said "the hell with this" and left the mountain without a word to Jack for no apparent reason? He wasn't upset about anything, and he's a pretty responsible guy.

Realistically, Jack faced two possibilities: that something bad had happened to Ennis, leaving him hurt or lost, or that he was just late and had neglected his duties. The former seems more likely because, again, Ennis isn't irresponsible. So Jack, knowing this, probably was more worried than angry. But he's a little of both. If Ennis finally does show up OK, he'll be mad at Ennis not just for being late but also for making him worry. So he plans out what he'll say if that happens.

His reaction is similar to what happens when a missing child turns up and the relieved parent yells at the kid for straying.

[silkncense]

The fireworks scene was, in part, there to function as an emblematic image of Ennis as American icon (tough, resilient, hard-as-nails cowboy).

Scott - I can see what you're saying, but I didn't think the scene rang true.  The bikers would've got up together to confront Ennis & I think the other cowboys in the area (totally not even looking during the confrontation) would've got up to back-up Ennis.

Maybe if the scene had progressed differently w/ the one biker just rising to confront Ennis w/out looking to his buddy (who we see starting to rise - but then does not??).  Then the timing/scene would have seemed truer.

[delalluvia]

Not to argue this endlessly, Del, but isn't it pretty unlikely that Ennis would have said "the hell with this" and left the mountain without a word to Jack for no apparent reason? He wasn't upset about anything, and he's a pretty responsible guy.

Yes, but Jack doesn't know this.  Not for certain.  This seems to be pretty early in the relationship isn't it?  Guys DO suddenly decide to move on.  Ennis has never worked for Aguirre before or with Jack, so he really doesn't know at this stage.

Realistically, Jack faced two possibilities: that something bad had happened to Ennis, leaving him hurt or lost, or that he was just late and had neglected his duties. The former seems more likely because, again, Ennis isn't irresponsible. So Jack, knowing this, probably was more worried than angry. But he's a little of both. If Ennis finally does show up OK, he'll be mad at Ennis not just for being late but also for making him worry. So he plans out what he'll say if that happens.

His reaction is similar to what happens when a missing child turns up and the relieved parent yells at the kid for straying.

I'll go along with that last, but I doubt that people rehearse what they'll say to their children in that circumstance.  They've been more worried IMO than sitting there rehearsing what to say if they do show up.  Usually they say blurt something they wish they hadn't later.  Again, I keep thinking this should have been more spontaneous a scene.

But no biggie Kat, we all see it differently.

[littleguitar]

I think I see where you're coming from Del, with that campfire scene.  And I wanted to point another thing out about that scene that always bugged me.  I've always thought that they way those few seconds when jack says "where the hell you been...." and ennis walks past him mumbling were shot were a little strange.  I think it's lit strange and the way the camera follows Ennis throws me for a minute.  Just those few seconds until Jack says "what in the hell happened Ennis?" It all falls back into place for me with that.

Does anyone know what I mean? I'm not a filmaker so I don't know the technical stuff, but the way it was shot and lit just seemed a bit off.  that could be a reason why Jake's delivery seems forced, that the shot itself seems a little faked

[Sheyne]

Little D, can't believe you haven't seen that -- I have it on tape somewhere, will find a way to get it to you. 

It is a truly awesome moment.  He picks up the shirts, does what we see in the final cut, then stumbles, leans against the wall, clutches the shirts and...bawls. 

I'll get it to you.   

rt

OMG rt, I want this too!!!! Please?? Pretty please?? 

[kirkmusic]

About the campfire scene - If you look closely (or even not so closely.  I noticed it upon first viewing), Jack smiles slighty when Ennis gets back to camp as he's putting the cap back on the whiskey bottle.  When he chides Ennis I always thought he was just, as they say in gangster movies, bustin' his balls.  Joking around.  Giving him a hard time.  So no, it shouldn't sound like authentic anger.

I thought having Ennis loose his temper against a backdrop of exploding fireworks with his family waaaaaaaaay in the background of the shot was emblematic of how his anger would always keep him distant from them.  I did think the image was an Oliver Stone size overstatement though.

The only line from any child actor that I found even halfway believable was "Mama, I need crayons," which I loved.

The dialogue in the Alma Jr./Ennis trailer scene seems uncharacteristically cliche compared to the rest of the movie.  I think they could have done better.  Listening to the rest of the movie, they could have done a lot better.

This isn't a gripe about the movie, but I wish to GOD they hadn't put the shirt scene in the motherlovin' theatrical trailer!!!!!!!!!!!  How the hell can you put your big surprise emotion tugging moment in your pre-release press and expect it to still have the same impact to the theatre going public who have seen that moment half a dozen times and know it's coming?!?!?!??  Man, I was pissed at that!

[silkncense]

The dialogue in the Alma Jr./Ennis trailer scene seems uncharacteristically cliche compared to the rest of the movie.  I think they could have done better.  Listening to the rest of the movie, they could have done a lot better.

Oh no!  I loved that scene.  Reminiscent of their conversation in the truck, and Alma Jr.s conversation w/ Cassie.  Short, non-specific questions and answers that still got to the heart of the matter.  And I personally loved when Ennis asked, "This Kurt fella, he loves you?"  One of my favorite lines as I think Ennis truly realizes how much he was loved and how important true love is.

I do agree about the trailer tho'...

[TJ]

Jack Twist's moustache was a part of the original story!

Lots of things in the movie would have been a whole lot different if the native to Texas screenplay writer, Larry McMurtry, the Saint Louis, Missouri Native/moved to Arizona screenplay writer and the Moved to the USA Native Taiwanese director, Ang Lee followed Annie Proulx's Wyoming story more closely.

While Annie Proulx was not born in Wyoming, she has lived there long enough to understand how the locals speak the Wyoming version of the American English Language.

[Front-Ranger]

I have never seen the trailer and now I'm glad I haven't! The only problems I have with the movie are also in the story, so I'll have to go back to the source... First, Jack says he's "commuting four hours a day." Did people "commute" back in 1963 and, if so, did they do so in the boonys and on horseback? I kinda doubt it. Also, Jack says he was "thinking out loud." This was in the 80s that he said this so I guess I will let it pass, but it's an obviously modern expression. Finally, kicking L.D.'s ass "into next week." Didn't this phrase become popular only after the "Back to the Future" movies?

[TJ]

Front-Ranger, according to your profile, you are at least 9 years younger than me. I am 63 as most members know.

I have read figures of speech and certain expressions which were supposed to have been said 40 to 100 years ago in the Western USA (West of the Mississippi River) and they seemed to be modern expressions.

But, in doing academic style research in books at local libraries, I found those expression did exist at the time the modern writers said they did.

When I was in the US Army and in Basic Training at Ft. Polk, Louisiana, I heard the expression said by drill instructors, "I am going to kick your ass into next week." While they could say that to a trainee, they would get into trouble if they actually did it. While I never had a drill sergeant threaten to kick my ass, I had more than one threaten to kick me in the ribs because they thought that I was not doing enough pushups to make myself have a stronger grip to go on the horizontal ladder. My arms were actually strong enough to hold me up; the real problem of the grip was actually in my hands (but, the ignorant NCOs were too dense to know that).

In the 1950s and 1960s, I heard people say they "were thinking out loud." And some said when they were actually sitting down and thinking silently, "I was just sittin' here studyin'." That "studyin'" expression was in the very same category as Ennis's "I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinkin about you."