What would it take to help Ennis be OK about himself?

[serious crayons]

I've been in debates about this on either side. On one end, there's a school of thought that says Ennis can't be freed of his homophobia; it's too ingrained. On the other end, people argue that Ennis should have realized that his homophobia was keeping him from happiness with Jack, and gotten over it.

Personally, I'm somewhere in between. People can free themselves of insecurities and prejudices instilled by their parents. But doing that usually means hearing from people with different views -- at college, for instance, or somewhere away from home. And they might get some therapy on top of that. Ennis had no opportunity for either. He couldn't talk to people, or read books, or join groups, or take classes, or hear ANYTHING that would tell him that his sexuality is OK and homophobia is wrong. As far as he knew, everyone in the world except maybe Jack agreed with his dad (and even Jack was slightly ambiguous on this issue). (And Ennis seeing a therapist?   I don't think so.) So he's stuck.

I think Mr. and Mrs. Twist were the first people Ennis knew who didn't appear homophobic. Seeing that may have helped him accept himself a bit more in the end, as it may have helped Jack be relatively comfortable with his own sexuality from the get-go.

What do you all think?

[Front-Ranger]

Maybe he was being on the way to okay at the end of the movie. Maybe he was at peace. I think it would take a transformative experience to put people like that on the path to okay-dom. And finding the shirts was certainly a transformative experience. It was an immensely redeeming and healing experience. Just climbing the stairs in that eerie light. Looking out at the road and the barn, and that star-shaped swathing machine in the barn. Being gazed upon by the madonna, Mrs. Twist. Standing up to the Jehovah-like judging old man. Being reduced to a paper bag container. Being at Lightning Flat and at the family plot. Being enveloped by the wind. Maybe, just maybe, he was there.

One thing that struck me as I saw the film in high-definition at the BBQ. Did you notice the blue light at the end? In between the window and the closet, there's a streak of blue light that I never noticed before. It made a big difference in my understanding of that scene.

[serious crayons]

I think it would take a transformative experience to put people like that on the path to okay-dom. And finding the shirts was certainly a transformative experience. It was an immensely redeeming and healing experience. Just climbing the stairs in that eerie light. Looking out at the road and the barn, and that star-shaped swathing machine in the barn. Being gazed upon by the madonna, Mrs. Twist. Standing up to the Jehovah-like judging old man. Being reduced to a paper bag container. Being at Lightning Flat and at the family plot. Being enveloped by the wind. Maybe, just maybe, he was there.

Good point and nicely put, FRiend!

[Brown Eyes]

You know I agree with what Lee says too.  I love the blue light observation!  Very profound detail and something I absolutely never noticed until it was pointed recently.

I think baby-step by baby-step Ennis was making progress and the argument by the lake maybe pushed Ennis to begin to be more honest with himself (i.e. all the possible implications of the pie scene and his decision to stop pretending to have a relationship with Cassie, at least).  And, yes, of course he changes a lot following Jack's death.

In terms of the things that help Ennis come to accept himself or at least come to terms with his very problematic internalized-homophobia (beyond Jack's consistent love for him over 20 difficult years) were his newfound mobility following Jack's death (at the very least he goes to Lightning Flat) and his exposure to new people (i.e. Mrs. Twist as Lee points out).  His lack of willingness to travel (only traveling around the coffeepot) while Jack was alive caused his view of the world to be extremely narrow.  He wasn't exposed to other more positive viewpoints beyond what he believed he perceived in his small society in Riverton and the traumatic childhood he had in Sage.  By meeting a person, such as Mrs. Twist, who treats him with kindness and compassion and seems to silently respect his relationship with Jack, Ennis begins to see that people aren't always going to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to him or his sexuality.  The implications of Old Man Twist's reaction to Ennis are clearly more complicated... and negative... and we know that it's been debated whether OMT's negativity was based on homophobia or something else.  But, the experience in Lightning Flat, I'm sure is meant to be a profoundly transformative moment for Ennis for the combined impact of the discovery of the shirts and the silent bond he strikes up with Mrs. Twist.

So, to answer the question posed by this thread, in general, I think increased mobility and increased experience of a broader range of people and social situations might have helped Ennis deal with the issue of homophobia (and in a hypothetical situation might have been able to help Ennis with this issue earlier in his life while Jack was alive too).

[ifyoucantfixit]

        I dont know if this is completely off topic, but have you ever wondered about the reason for old man Twists
horrible remark...He knew without doubt that it would cut Ennis  to the quick?  Do you think he was so disgusted by Jacks homosexuality, or so mad at Ennis for not moving up there, maybe blaming him for his sons death, as a result of his lack of movement to the ranch..that he wanted to hurt Ennis for allowing his son to die, even though he was always mean to Jack also..It has always been a tough one to figure out for me. The old mans motivation...
         At any rate I thought he may have moved Ennis one way or another, but i wasnt sure which way that might be.

[Jeff Wrangler]

        I dont know if this is completely off topic, but have you ever wondered about the reason for old man Twists
horrible remark...He knew without doubt that it would cut Ennis  to the quick?  Do you think he was so disgusted by Jacks homosexuality, or so mad at Ennis for not moving up there, maybe blaming him for his sons death, as a result of his lack of movement to the ranch..that he wanted to hurt Ennis for allowing his son to die, even though he was always mean to Jack also..It has always been a tough one to figure out for me. The old mans motivation...
         At any rate I thought he may have moved Ennis one way or another, but i wasnt sure which way that might be.

Homophobia. He knew very well that Ennis was his queer son's queer lover. In effect it's a verbal gay bashing. Hasn't got anything to do with being angry at Ennis for not moving to Lightning Flat with Jack, or blaming Ennis for Jack's death. As Annie Proulx says, Brokeback Mountain is a tale of the destructive effect of rural homophobia, and that's what we're seeing here.

[serious crayons]

  Here we go again, with a question that's almost up there with sorry/s'alright among BBM controversies.

OMT shows no unequivocal sign of homophobia. He's a mean old bastard for sure, and he knows about Jack and Ennis' involvement ("I know where Brokeback Mountain is"). But he doesn't say one thing he might not as easily say about heterosexual lovers.

In discussing his sons' plans to ditch his wife and child in order to live with another man, his chief complaint is that Jack never followed through. He could have used the help with the ranch.

Even by telling Ennis about the other fella, OMT is showing, in a weird backward way, an understanding and acceptance of their relationship. Again, he's treating them just as he would if a straight couple -- he knows Ennis will be cut to the quick -- and in so doing, he's normalizing their relationship, validating it (though not in a kind way, obviously).

The movie is about, in part, the idea that appearances can be deceiving. That's especially true when it comes to the dads. We're set up to think of Ennis' dad as a good guy ("My dad was a fine roper," "I think my dad was right"), but later learn he was a potentially murderous homophobe. On the other hand, we're told Jack's dad was a jerk ("Can't please my old man, no way," "never taught me a thing, never once came to see me ride") and in the context of this movie and the culture it portrays it's natural to assume that OMT is specifically a homophobic jerk. But surprise!! He's not. The two fathers, in a way, follow opposite trajectories of character development.

I also think it's important that nobody who knows about Jack and Ennis reacts in the way Ennis would expect and fear. Aguirre doesn't fire them. Alma keeps quiet for years. It's not that the movie is trying to show that cultural homophobia is all in Ennis' head -- Earl's murder is a powerful reminder of its very real threat -- but the movie wants to focus on the homophobia in Ennis head, to show how the destruction of rural homophobia affects not only lives but also souls.

I see Mr. Twist as a grieving father, albeit an obnoxious one. In denying Ennis the ashes he's saying that Ennis doesn't deserve them -- he let Jack down, wouldn't commit, wouldn't become part of the family. Jack's ashes are going in the family plot, because Ennis has not earned the right to take a role.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Jack's ashes are going in the family plot, because Ennis has not earned the right to take a role.

Jack's ashes are going in the family plot because it's the last act of control by the Stud Duck in the pond over the son he despised. Ennis's worth or right, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with it.

[Penthesilea]

I see Mr. Twist as a grieving father, albeit an obnoxious one. In denying Ennis the ashes he's saying that Ennis doesn't deserve them -- he let Jack down, wouldn't commit, wouldn't become part of the family. Jack's ashes are going in the family plot, because Ennis has not earned the right to take a role.

Jack's ashes are going in the family plot because it's the last act of control by the Stud Duck in the pond over the son he despised. Ennis's worth or right, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with it.

I think Jeff is at least partly right here:

"he thought he was too goddam special to be buried in the family plot."

and

"Tell you what, we got a family plot and he's goin in it."


Sounds pretty despiseful to me - of Jack, not despiseful of Ennis. Like Jeff, I think the refusal of the ashes was a final act of showing Jack (and Ennis, too - and even Mrs. Twist) who's the boss/stud duck. Not even in death, OMT could find something good to say about his son, nothing about Jack found his approval.


On the other side, I think Katherine is right in saying, OMT's main accuse is that Jack's plans "never came to pass". That he and Ennis did not lick the ranch in shape and help him. I think he would have been ok with the two living there. Therefore he can't be a total homophobe. I think he did not like that Jack (and Ennis) was/were queer, but he would have silently accepted it, in order to get help.

[serious crayons]

I think Jeff is at least partly right here:

"he thought he was too goddam special to be buried in the family plot."

and

"Tell you what, we got a family plot and he's goin in it."


Sounds pretty despiseful to me - of Jack, not despiseful of Ennis. Like Jeff, I think the refusal of the ashes was a final act of showing Jack (and Ennis, too - and even Mrs. Twist) who's the boss/stud duck. Not even in death, OMT could find something good to say about his son, nothing about Jack found his approval.

I can buy that. And it's in character, though it's still not homophobic.

Tell you what, I'm only half committed to the "he denies Ennis the ashes because Ennis couldn't commit" interpretation. But I think it's interesting, and possible. And he does look like a grieving father to me. Even mean old bastards can mourn dead sons.

On the other side, I think Katherine is right in saying, OMT's main accuse is that Jack's plans "never came to pass". That he and Ennis did not lick the ranch in shape and help him. I think he would have been ok with the two living there. Therefore he can't be a total homophobe. I think he did not like that Jack (and Ennis) was/were queer, but he would have silently accepted it, in order to get help.

Right. He probably wasn't running for president of the local chapter of PFLAG, but I think he tolerated their homosexuality. Imagine if he were homophobic, how differently he might have described Jack's plan. "Half-baked notion" is the only negative thing he says about it.