Another REPOST from TOB
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Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by True_Oracle_of_Phoenix 1 day ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 12:01:47 ) UPDATED Thu Nov 2 2006 12:16:19
"...Earl and Rich. They was a a joke in town, even though they was pretty tough old birds."
... a bird flies over the white truck that passes by in the post-divorce scene.
... Thankgiving dinner turkeys (Jack and Ennis are apart from each other).
... Lureen: "But knowing Jack, it might be some pretend place where the bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring."
... in Alma Jr.'s last scene she wears bluebird earrings.
(I haven't decided whether to include the airplane that passes over the Jack's tractor as it circles on the ground as part of the "bird imagery", so I am not officially including it yet.)
There seems to be a link here... But what can it mean?
Opportunity flying away?
Life passing by?
The relentless march of time?
Ominous birds of prey?
Bird imagery simply to highlight key emotional passages?
Is there a chinese symbolic dimension to this?
I'd like to hear from others what all this bird imagery means to them, since i haven't yet heard it discussed...
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by malina-5 23 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 12:30:20 ) I'm afraid it can mean nothing good.
Birds are scary.
A bird in the house means a death in the family.
Birds are psychopomps - they escort souls over to the other side.
Still, there can be fantasies of good things involving birds. "where bluebirds sing" etc. And I guess being up on the mountain gave them a birds' eye view of things. And the distance between them would not have been so great if they could've flown, like most people in a long-distance relationship would have by the 1970s or 80s. It may not even have been as far 'as the crow flies'. But they were limited by the configurations of the road (like the road Ennis was paving after coming down from Brokeback)... in fact Jack was King of the Road... until he died by the side of it. Up on Brokeback there were no roads... or cars, so no need for tires or tire irons. Oops, I seem to have gone from birds to roads. But they are related. A bird needs a road like a fish needs a bicycle.
Hey I hope someone found Jack before the birds got to him. Sorry I know that's gruesome. But I do hope so. On the other hand, first nations people used to put their dead up in the trees so the birds could.. well, you know. They are psychopomps, after all. The dividing up of the ashes was a bit scavenger-bird-esque.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by doelcm 23 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 12:39:09 ) You may not be able to see it, but there is air in every scene.
-----
I love Mister Bungee--yes indeedy (here's your ziti)!
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by True_Oracle_of_Phoenix 22 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 13:17:16 ) doelcm wrote: are they divided by AIR?
You maynot be able to see it, but there is air in every scene.Ha ha, Yes! But there are not BIRDS in every scene.
They seem to be curiously absent from many scenes, and the bird imagery is only present in key scenes.
I got to thinking about this in the theatre when I realized the bird over the car was most likely a digital addition.
It wouldn't have been added unless it meant something.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by JPJenny 21 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 14:14:09 ) <<Birds are scary. >>
Yes!! I'm especially scared of crows. I live in the suberbs of Tokyo -- there are so many of them!! Actually I hear them cawing (is this the correct word?) just now. Eek!
Regarding birds in BbM:
--- You can hear the crows when Ennis opens the window in Jack’s room.
--- BbM theme music – The Wing?
In the book (probably not so relevant but...):
--- Ministering angel ... "wings" folded -- um, angels are not birds, sorry.
--- There were only the two of them on the mountain flying in the euphoric, bitter air, looking down on the hawk’s back and the crawling lights of vehicles on the plain below, suspended above ordinary affairs and distant from tame ranch dogs barking in the dark hours.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by ClancyPantsDelMar 21 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 14:21:50 ) And depending on which version you read, the eagle feather in Jack's hat...
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by True_Oracle_of_Phoenix 21 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 14:25:23 ) UPDATED Thu Nov 2 2006 14:26:59
JPJenny writes--- You can hear the crows when Ennis opens the window in Jack’s room.
--- BbM theme music – The Wings? I hadn't noticed the crows cawing when Ennis opens the window. I shall have to watch that part again!
I had forgotten to include "The Wings" music in my original post, but you are correct. It is very much part of what drew my attention to the bird imagery in the film.
--- Ministering angel ... "wings" folded -- um, angels are not birds, sorry
Actually, although I hadn't caught this image from the story, it does fit the theme since it occurs as they are preparing to separate on the mountain.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by JPJenny 21 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 14:39:12 ) Yes, ClancyPants, the eagle feather. I forgot!
---He had shot an eagle, he said, turned his head to show the tail feather in his hatband.
---Jack, the same eagle feather in his old hat, lifting his head in the heated noon to take the air scented with resinous lodgepole, the dry needle duff and hot rock, bitter juniper crushed beneath the horses’ hooves.
---Black and Blue Eagle Bar (Book and film)
---I had to mention this one! --> Ennis lay spread-eagled, spent and wet, breathing deep, still half tumescent, Jack blowing forceful cigarette clouds like whale spouts, and Jack said, “Christ, it got a be all that time a yours ahorseback makes it so goddamn good.
What are all these eagles?!
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by ClancyPantsDelMar 20 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 15:11:52 ) Hi JPJenny --
Interesting question, "What are all these eagles?"
Just today I read on some internet news sight that Willie Nelson (the guy who sings "He Was a Friend of Mine" as the credits roll) was quoted as saying that he has the utmost respect for the eagle, but he's always felt that America's national emblem should have been the horse instead. Horses, cowboys, eagles... and Willie Nelson! Makes one wonder!
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by JPJenny 19 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 16:17:11 ) ClancyPants, Wow I’m so happy to talk to you! Honored is the right word actually. I really enjoy reading your posts including the chupacabra theory, of course.
Willie Nelson is one of my favorite singer/songwriters. I have his CD’s and listen to them quite often. I also like his cover of Kris Kristofferson’s songs: "Me and Bobby McGee," "Sunday Mornin' Comin' Down," "Help Me Make It Through the Night."
<<America's national emblem should have been the horse instead.>>
Now that’s interesting. Willie wants a national emblem like this one?
http://www.mountainproject.com/images/63/38/105806338_medium_908866.jpg The fact that you read the article today may not be a coincidence – synchronicity.
Does it mean that we have to listen to what Willie said – think more about the horses?
But I can’t even answer my own question about the eagles.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by AIR?
by True_Oracle_of_Phoenix 8 hours ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 03:44:55 ) JPJenny wrote (and CPDM quotes): "What are all these eagles?"
Also from Annie Proulx's text:
(Ennis) gave another wrench that left (Alma) with a burning bracelet, shoved his hat on backwards and slammed out. He went to the Black and Blue Eagle bar that night, got drunk, had a short dirty fight and left.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by malwood2000 18 hours ago (Thu Nov 2 2006 17:06:14 ) And Joe AGUIRRE, eagle in Spanish.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by JPJenny 1 hour ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 10:24:07 ) True_Oracle_of_Phoenix wrote:
<<I hadn't noticed the crows cawing when Ennis opens the window. I shall have to watch that part again!>> Let me correct myself. I watched the DVD again and there was just one crow cawing three times.
As I mentioned in my first post, I am scared of crows – ever since I was a child (some kind of phobia? LOL). I think that’s why I noticed the cawing.
I thought there could be some link (bookend?) between the crow that flew over the truck and the crow at the Twists’ house because these are the only scenes where we see/hear the crows. My impression of the crow flying over the white truck was ominous. But Ennis’ visit to Jack’s room is a revelation for him, so the cawing craw there does not give an ominous image here.
malina5 wrote <<they escort souls over to the other side.>> Did the crow carry Jack’s soul away at the post-divorce scene? His dream (his motivation to live on) was shattered -- internally Jack died at this point. Did his soul came back to the Twists’ ranch in the form a craw to lead Ennis to the shirts? Immediately after the cawing (Ennis noticed this and looked out the window), the wind (Jack) blew in, sooftly at first –- the sound of the wind is evident here (we only hear it but Ennis was also feeling the wind and it made him turn around) -- and Ennis looked towards the closet.
Maybe I'm getting into too much details here.
We were discussing about the symbolism of the birds.
Malwood2000 wrote <<And Joe AGUIRRE, eagle in Spanish>> More eagles!! This is very interesting!
As malina5 wrote (beautiful imagery!), Ennis and Jack were bound to the road, to the ground. On the ground birds (turkeys) were cooked and cut up… But up on Brokeback they were flying like birds. From the book:
“There were only the two of them on the mountain flying in the euphoric, bitter air, looking down on the hawk’s back and the crawling lights of vehicles on the plain below, suspended above ordinary affairs and distant from tame ranch dogs barking in the dark hours.”
We hear the “The Wing” at the end of the film.
Ennis wanted to be a tough bird too (“tough old birds”). But if Aguirre was an eagle what is tougher than that? Airplanes? Ennis’s daughters were maybe bluebirds to him. Ennis said they had wings (Thanksgiving dinner). I wanted to be fair and think up a bird for Bobby but I couldn't think of any...
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by ClancyPantsDelMar 1 hour ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 10:37:40 ) Hi JPJenny –
“I thought there could be some link (bookend?) between the crow that flew over the truck and the crow at the Twists’ house because these are the only scenes where we see/hear the crows. My impression of the crow flying over the white truck was ominous. But Ennis’ visit to Jack’s room is a revelation for him, so the cawing craw there does not give an ominous image here.” In the post divorce scene we see a white truck drive by and a crow flying in the air. The color white and the crow are both symbols of death. They are both moving. They foreshadow Jack’s death to come.
At Lightning Flat, the house, or more importantly, Jack’s room, is white and we hear a crow. Neither is moving. Jack has died.
“Did the crow carry Jack’s soul away at the post-divorce scene? His dream (his motivation to live on) was shattered -- internally Jack died at this point. Did his soul came back to the Twists’ ranch in the form a craw to lead Ennis to the shirts? Immediately after the cawing (Ennis noticed this and looked out the window), the wind (Jack) blew in, sooftly at first –- the sound of the wind is evident here (we only hear it but Ennis was also feeling the wind and it made him turn around) -- and Ennis looked towards the closet.” This is very good. It could be that the white symbolizes the death of the physical (in each case, the white is on the ground) and the crow symbolizes the death of the spirit (the crow is a bird, flies through the air). Or, the crow, being alive in each scene, could symbolize that the spirit continues to live on. In the post-divorce scene, the crow flies with the truck… spirit with body. In Lightning Flat, the crow is still alive and present but not in sync with the white room, the body.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by daphne7661 21 minutes ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 11:44:01 ) I could be wrong, but I believe we hear an eagle or other bird cawing just as Jack and Ennis are moving the camp up on Brokeback and the camera is panning the beautiful vista...
This is just before the "Pentecost" scene and, of course, TS1...
That bird was flying high and free.... Then!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by ClancyPantsDelMar 16 minutes ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 11:48:50 ) Hi daphne7661 --
"I could be wrong, but I believe we hear an eagle or other bird cawing just as Jack and Ennis are moving the camp up on Brokeback and the camera is panning the beautiful vista..."
You are correct. I have the movie saved on my hard drive and I just checked it. There's a lot of sheep noise, but at one particularly quiet moment, the screech of an eagle is definitely there.
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by daphne7661 9 minutes ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 11:55:32 ) Thanks for the confirmation, Clancy!!
I wonder...
Do you think that Annie, Ang, Diana, Larry, Heath and/or Jake are humbled, honored and/or happy that we have all learned so much about this story/film and, in the process, possibly even ourselves???
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by ClancyPantsDelMar 5 minutes ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 11:59:28 ) UPDATED Fri Nov 3 2006 11:59:46
Hi daphne7661 --
"Do you think that Annie, Ang, Diana, Larry, Heath and/or Jake are humbled, honored and/or happy that we have all learned so much about this story/film and, in the process, possibly even ourselves???"
Oh, I know it. I have read interviews with AP, AL, HL & JG that all say that they are... especially the part about the effects BBM has had on individuals. I've also seen interviews with AL, DO, LM, HL, & JG (and MW & AH, by the way) in which they have said the same. They know. They know...
Re: Ennis and Jack: are they divided by BIRDS?
by daphne7661 3 minutes ago (Fri Nov 3 2006 12:02:07 ) I'm glad!! They need to know how much this has meant to us all and how much we appreciate their extraordinary work and talents!!!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
