what's the point of the job switch?

[Jeff Wrangler]

Very nice synthesis, Katherine!

I'm not sure I personally I would use the word "objection" to what I said about the stereotypical roles, but it did make me feel very unhappy when I noticed it, because, especially in Jack's case, it is stereotypical (like the homophobic "which one's the wife" question), like I expected better of Annie Proulx.

You know, I never really gave any thought to the can opener, but reading your last post, it occurred to me that the can opener is one more thing that Jack claims to be good at and he really isn't, not on the basis of the only time we see him using the can opener!

[nakymaton]

Lots of good points about the switch.

One other thing: after they switch roles, Ennis has to stay in camp in order for anything to happen. He doesn't consciously decide to stay in camp; it just isn't in his nature. But he lingers in camp, longer and longer, until finally he stays so long drinking that he can't make it back. I know there's been discussion of whether Jack hoped (or even intended) that Ennis's inhibitions would wear down after drinking, but I don't think that's what happened. I think that Ennis yearned toward Jack, and that he stayed drinking as an unconscious excuse to stay close to Jack.

I think their first time works better with Ennis staying in camp... if Jack had both chosen to stay in camp and then made the first move, the entire affair would seem a bit more one-sided. As it is, I felt (at least) that the attraction was clearly mutual, even if Jack was the one who initiated things.

(And I think that Jack's experience on the mountain the previous summer is symbolic of him either having previous same-sex experiences, or at least knowing where his attractions tended to fall.)

Interesting to think of Jack as an emotional can opener. I kind of like that. (Though he's better at getting Ennis to open up than he is with the can of beans!)

[serious crayons]

I think that Ennis yearned toward Jack, and that he stayed drinking as an unconscious excuse to stay close to Jack.

I think their first time works better with Ennis staying in camp... if Jack had both chosen to stay in camp and then made the first move, the entire affair would seem a bit more one-sided.

Great points, Nakymaton!

[Jeff Wrangler]

As far as Ennis's lingering in camp goes, this is an area where I think perhaps the original story "does it better," maybe because this is something easier to "tell" than to show without a lot of boring expository dialogue.

I'm thinking of the story's famous "paw the white out of the moon" line. Regardless of sexual attraction, conscious or otherwise, I think as the days pass Ennis is simply having more fun in Jack's company than the poor kid probably ever had in his life, so it gets more and more difficult as time passes for him to go back to the sheep.

Mind you, I'm not saying the sexual attraction isn't a factor or isn't growing as the time passes, just that I think there is an additional factor here, Ennis's plain human loneliness.

For that matter, I think the simple fun he has in Jack's company is a factor in the growing sexual attraction. People who are fun to be with are more sexually attractive than people who aren't fun to be with--at least they are for me, personally.

[moremojo]

A couple of thoughts on this subject:

Did the boys ever worry that Aguirre would be displeased by the switch? They certainly don't seem to ever be concerned about this possibility. Yet Aguirre specifically assigned Ennis to be camp tender, and Jack herder. And Aguirre obviously learns about the switch before he orders the boys off the mountain, as the Basque too would have observed Jack coming for the food pickup in Ennis's stead.

Secondly, as original camp tender, Ennis would have been responsible not only for meals, but for clothes washing as well (though we never see him engaged in this latter activity). This means that he would have been cleaning Jack's blue shirt at various points that summer, and this provides another "bookend" to the film's concluding image, of Ennis lovingly tending Jack's shirt for the remainder of his life.

Scott

[serious crayons]

I'm not sure I personally I would use the word "objection" to what I said about the stereotypical roles, but it did make me feel very unhappy when I noticed it, because, especially in Jack's case, it is stereotypical (like the homophobic "which one's the wife" question), like I expected better of Annie Proulx.

I understand what you're saying, Jeff, and it's unfortunate. But maybe the problem, rather than the product of homophobic stereotyping, is an unavoidable result of storytelling requirements. Jack needs to be housekeeper in order to set up the Jack/Alma conflict. And it's hard to imagine the first tent scene going differently. Though I guess I've always assumed things DID go differently as their relationship progressed. Granted, this isn't my area of expertise. Would there be another way around this problem?

Also, I don't have the story in front of me, so I could easily be wrong, but doesn't Annie leave the "receptive" and "active" designations more ambiguous? I just remember her reference to a furtive unbuckling of belts or something like that.

And as for this

Regardless of sexual attraction, conscious or otherwise, I think as the days pass Ennis is simply having more fun in Jack's company than the poor kid probably ever had in his life, so it gets more and more difficult as time passes for him to go back to the sheep.

Mind you, I'm not saying the sexual attraction isn't a factor or isn't growing as the time passes, just that I think there is additional factor here, Ennis's plain human loneliness.

For that matter, I think the simple fun he has in Jack's company is a factor in the growing sexual attraction. People who are fun to be with are more sexually attractive than people who aren't fun to be with--at least they are for me, personally.

You are so right about the importance of that, although I would argue that the movie establishes it fairly well -- particularly in the "wha?" scene and the goofy rodeo imitation scene, where it seems like Ennis is smiling for the first time in years. Come to think of it, though, I can imagine ways to dramatize "paw the white out of the moon" that would have been nice (more smiling! always welcome). But in any case, yes, Ennis' loneliness is such a sad and touching thing. It's like what we were talking about the other day, regarding the most important loss to Ennis when Jack died: his best and only friend.

[moremojo]

One thing has disturbed me: When I realized that after they made the job switch, when they did begin to have sex, Jack, the "receptive" partner, as camp tender, was now in the "traditional female role" of "housekeeper," whereas Ennis, the "active" partner, was in the "traditional male role" of "going out to work." Ouch. Say it ain't so, Annie Proulx!

Hi, Jeff Wrangler,

I think Proulx and the filmmakers might have been intentionally going along this line of thinking, however distasteful it is for so many contemporary lesbigay readers and viewers. I'm not trying to say that there is any homophobia on the artists' part, but I do think that Jack harbors qualities that our culture traditionally deems 'feminine' (i.e., he is nurturing, sensitive, tender, and yielding), and Ennis may have been in part responding to some of these characteristics. Ennis is definitely homophobic, and in his eyes, if he is going to relate intimately to Jack, he may think he's darn well going to be the 'man' in the situation, implicitly placing Jack in the 'woman's' position. I'm not saying this is the way it actually is or should be, but it would be consistent with the mindset of the time and place in which the boys exist.

I'm hypothesizing of course, but I find this angle a useful way to approach Jack and Ennis's specific relationship, at least at its beginning. I disagree with the emphatic argument many make that Jack is wholly masculine in his persona--I see him as an integrated blend of the masculine and the feminine, and in this, he is actually more whole and healthier than Ennis.

Scott

[delalluvia]

Ennis may have been in part responding to some of these characteristics. Ennis is definitely homophobic, and in his eyes, if he is going to relate intimately to Jack, he may think he's darn well going to be the 'man' in the situation, implicitly placing Jack in the 'woman's' position. I'm not saying this is the way it actually is or should be, but it would be consistent with the mindset of the time and place in which the boys exist.

Well said more.

And you guys...I said it once, I'll say it agian.  Jack was EXCELLENT with a can opener!  The can opened right up.  It's just he had problems handling the contents.  Which I guess still ties into Jack getting Ennis to open up if you want to look at it that way.

Heh, either way, opening up a can or opening up Ennis, he gets splattered with the results. 

[moremojo]

Heh, either way, opening up a can or opening up Ennis, he gets splattered with the results. 

A wonderful thought for my evening! Thanks!

[starboardlight]

Heh, either way, opening up a can or opening up Ennis, he gets splattered with the results. 

lol. hrm my mind is going the wrong direction, or the right direction, depending on your mood.