A REPOST from TOB
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The Aguirre Character
by ClancyPantsNasty (Tue Dec 26 2006 16:25:36 )
Hi!
I’ve been having a PM conversation with littlewing1957 on this topic and we thought it would make an interesting thread.
It seems that a lot of people dislike Aguirre and think he is a bastard. Some find him reasonable, expecting an honest day of work for a day of honest pay.
I see Aguirre’s character as almost being a foreshadowing of what is to NOT become of Jack and Ennis.
A person in Aguirre’s position would probably have worked his way up the ranch-hand/cowboy ladder, maybe with some extra education, certainly some skills in management – people and/or tasks.
Ennis and Jack each wanted to have a spread of their own, run a ranch. Ennis fell short of it due to his lack of money and lack of education, but mainly due to his lack of drive in that direction as he was more driven toward meeting with Jack and quitting jobs to do so. He must have gained a bad reputation in the ranch-hand/cowboy circles of the area… except for being a hard worker if and when he showed up.
And as to Jack… I could see Jack filling Aguirre’s shoes. He could have gone on in life to have an Aguirre-type operation going on for himself. But, he got side-tracked down in Texas, away from his dream.
So what does everyone think? Is Aguirre Jack and Ennis rolled up into one? Is he just a bastard? A reasonable employer? Or is he a contrasted heterosexual version of Randall?
Re: The Aguirre Character
by ScissorhandsRaineyluv (Tue Dec 26 2006 16:36:07 )
Wow.Very nice littlewing and Clancy. I never thought that Aguirre could be foreshadowing Ennis and Jack's inability to run a spread of their own. That's very interesting.Aguirre could have eventually got a ranch of his own if he learned some people skills and smartened up, but he didn't seem to care to.
I've actually never hated Aguirre like some posters on here, nor did I ever find him to be a homophobe. I just don't find him to be a particularly appealing character, and he did make Jack do something against the rules.So I can't say that I feel sorry he lost a bunch of his sheep.
"Should he tell her? Should he not tell her? He's torn, Georgie. This is drama." Ed Wood
Re: The Aguirre Character
by HeathandMichelle (Tue Dec 26 2006 17:21:33 )
Aguirre represents the male of that era, not in the worst light I might add, for the early 60s.
I'll add here, my uncle in 1964 jumped to his death into the Charles River because of being thrown out of a seminary, and then put into the Brigg in the Navy for homosexual behavior, because of this, I don't find Aguirre that horrible.
Re: The Aguirre Character
by Shasta254 (Tue Dec 26 2006 18:15:09 )
Well, that's horrible, H&M. I guess from that perspective, Aquirre isn't so bad.
I am sorry about your uncle---too bad he couldn't get some understanding during that time in his life.
I did not like Aquirre from the beginning. I dislike the way he talked to the boys at the beginning and I thought he was arrogant---instead of saying, "any questions?" or something like that, he just gave them a dirty look to make them leave the trailer. He was an a**hole, homophobic or not.
Then I liked him less when he spied, when he made them leave early, when he said "you ranch stiffs" never are any good, and when he was mean to Jack when he came to get a job the 3rd summer. He could have just told Jack that the position was filled--he didn't have to be so hateful.
Yeah, my vote is---I don't like Aquirre.
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: The Aguirre Character
by daphne7661 (Tue Dec 26 2006 18:26:04 )
UPDATED Tue Dec 26 2006 18:30:23
Aguirre was so many negative things - arrogant, rude, dismissive, pompous! But, from a working standpoint, and in that day and time, I guess I could see his position of authority and even his rude and misdirected anger at Jack for having lost 42 sheep the summer before, even though it was hardly Jack's fault (it was a lightning storm and he was supposedly, possibly, up there alone). I had a few gnarly bosses like that in my earlier days.
So, I guess I could overlook many things about Aguirre -- right up until his last scene wherein that 1963 rural Wyoming homophobia steps in, and, all the hairs on the back of my neck stand up as he demeans, embarrasses and is downright rude to Jack.
I can't even watch that scene - have to skip right over it - as I cannot bear to see Jack so hurt in so many ways (no word of Ennis, no job wherein he could possibly see Ennis again, an admission from Aguirre that he saw them and knew what was happening between them and Aguirre's acidic and accusatory venomous dismissal of him!) Oh, that I HATE!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: The Aguirre Character
by JaJasMa (Tue Dec 26 2006 20:04:40 )
Clancy and Littlewing - I'm not sure who started the thread that Brokeback Mountain itself was a representation of The Garden of Eden, and Jack and Ennis were cast out early for their "bad" behavior, but I like that analogy, so in this case Aguirre becomes the "God-like" figure who determines the rules and sets the moral code and holds ultimate power over who "stays" and who "goes." There was also a discussion about the morals of society (reality) versus the morals on Brokeback (fantasy?) so Aguirre's job was to upold society's morals. And yes, I think Jack could have easily been his own Aguirre.
Re: The Aguirre Character
by ClancyPantsNasty (Tue Dec 26 2006 21:03:22 )
Hi JaJasMa --
I'll throw something else into the mix. I’ve written before about the Garden of Eden symbolism and Aguirre as god-figure. But, how about this... Aguirre as the tempter-devil?? After all, Aguirre is beholden to a higher authority himself -- the Forest Service -- who make the rules and he's encouraging Jack and Ennis to break the rules. In essence, he gives the green light to any bad behavior on their parts. Then when he spies on them, he says nothing, just lets it happen; whereas, wouldn’t a god-figure dole out punishment? So, I don’t know. It seems he displays both?? Anyone else??
Re: The Aguirre Character
by littlewing1957 (Tue Dec 26 2006 21:39:26 )
UPDATED Tue Dec 26 2006 21:41:21
<<In essence, he gives the green light to any bad behavior on their parts. Then when he spies on them, he says nothing, just lets it happen; whereas, wouldn’t a god-figure dole out punishment? So, I don’t know. It seems he displays both?? Anyone else??>>
Clancy, you ask if a God-figure would dole out punishment? I may be way off base here, but I think a God-figure punishes in his own time. Sending the boys home early, refusing to rehire Jack and humiliating him when he asked for work the following summer can be considered a form of punishment? The punishment was not exactly immediate, but it happened.
Re: The Aguirre Character
by pianocellolove (Tue Dec 26 2006 20:05:53 )
UPDATED Tue Dec 26 2006 22:11:56
I respected the fact that Aguirre appeared to be a very focused and serious minded employer and that's all good. He was hard working and really cared about the success of his business, but when it came to dealing with people and matters of the heart, he was stone cold.
I dislike Aguirre because he lacked what a truly successful person has and that is empathy and respect. He was unprofessional in that he knew not how to separate his own prejudices from doing what was right and that was in rehiring these hardworking men. From what I recall in the film, he only saw them horseplaying with their shirts off. I was a little confused as to why he went from seeing that to using the rude "stemming the rose" comment. Obviously he wasn't a very bright man in some ways but the fact that he didn't have the ability to keep his employees' lives their own, (in this case Ennis and Jack) and to separate himself from his own insecurities exacerbates that observation. A successful and intelligent employer has a much higher mindset. Unfortunately for both Ennis and Jack and perhaps so many others, he didn't. Poor guy. Maybe he should be pitied instead.
