How come?
by crytal985 (Thu Nov 9 2006 02:10:17 ) UPDATED Thu Nov 9 2006 02:10:47
Why is Ennis so rough the first time him and Jack have relations? His he trying to be the bigger man? I just didn't understand that.
Re: How come?
by Shasta254 (Thu Nov 9 2006 03:23:23 ) Swept away by passion?
He wants Jack, but he's angry that he is letting himself want a man?
It didn't seem overly rough to me, but very intense.
Re: How come?
by mprmanny (Thu Nov 9 2006 04:47:46 ) I tend to agree. He is shocked at first, when Jack pulls his hand around to touch him intimately. He wants this, but he is also afraid--so he is fighting his own impulses.
Re: How come?
by True_Oracle_of_Phoenix (Thu Nov 9 2006 04:52:36 ) Why so rough? Well, Ennis probably acquired his knowlege of sexual activity by watching farm animals...
Re: How come?
by ka_baerchen (Thu Nov 9 2006 06:05:06 ) UPDATED Thu Nov 9 2006 06:12:59
Yeah, he definitely was afraid of it, but wanted it...
You must keep in mind that Ennis was pretty affected by the whiskey he drank the whole evening and he just woke up in a shock. I doubt he was thinking too much in that moment, instead just let his sexual desire take control after his reflex to repel Jack.
It's almost funny how he is mumbling "What are you doing?", you can tell he was somewhere beyond good and evil there.
Re: How come?
by littlewing1957 (Thu Nov 9 2006 08:47:20 ) I don't understand why people think Ennis was rough. Where people see roughness, even violence, I see urgency, passion. Besides, Jack is a strong, strapping young man. He didn't need to be gentled and Ennis knew this.
Re: How come?
by daphne7661 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:01:57 ) While I do worry about some lingering pain for Jack, I agree with littlewing. Besides, was there any other way for these two to come to this dance? I doubt it. No flowers or candy for our boys. No bubble baths or rose petals. No lookout point or makeouts of any kind.
No, it was the conflicting urgency of each. No other way to consummate their attraction without causing a few bumps! It needed to be urgent. It needed to be passionate (no doubt there). And, it needed to be spontaneous...
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come?
by littlewing1957 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:08:59 ) <<While I do worry about some lingering pain for Jack, I agree with littlewing>>
Yes, Daphne, Jack must have felt some discomfort, some say even great pain, but I guess that couldn't be avoided...at first!
<<No, it was the conflicting urgency of each. No other way to consummate their attraction without causing a few bumps! It needed to be urgent. It needed to be passionate (no doubt there). And, it needed to be spontaneous...>>
Yes, Lord!
And I hope it was good..for both of them.
Re: How come?
by daphne7661 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:12:58 ) And I hope it was good..for both of them.
...sure seemed so!!!!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come?
by malina-5 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:19:27 ) <<And I hope it was good..for both of them. >>
I think so. And I will be forever grateful to belgianboy for filling in the gaps!
But yes.. the seeming inadequacy of the small bit of spit.. the unavailability of anything that would have worked better.. I think part of the obvious response to that scene is, well, ouch!
But, I love love love the clasped hands. Which I may never have seen at all if someone hadn't pointed it out.
Re: How come?
by Dobie1018 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:23:09 ) "But, I love love love the clasped hands. Which I may never have seen at all if someone hadn't pointed it out."
I keep looking for the clasped hands each time I watch that scene because I've seen someone here talk about that once before, but cannot see it on my DVD. I see Jack punching the ground with his right hand, but not the clasped hands.
"I ain't yet had the opportunity."
"Hmmmm. . . . "
Re: How come?
by daphne7661 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:24:16 ) But, I love love love the clasped hands. Which I may never have seen at all if someone hadn't pointed it out.
I actually believe the "clasped hands" were indicative of something more, but perhaps I'll keep that to myself, as the last time I tried to discuss that particular .... gesture .... I didn't exactly get the response I was looking for.
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come?
by ka_baerchen (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:30:33 ) I want to know...
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by daphne7661 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:53:40 ) OK, warning! This is defintely 18+, so .... here goes:
Now, if anyone has the full screen version of the DVD, it is easier to see, but the widescreen version is ok, too - if you have a zoom button, zoom in once.
Just as we can't "really" see (but we "know") that Jack takes Ennis' hand and places it to his crotch area when they are sitting up, so, too, can we not "really" see (but we "know") that once Ennis has ... er ... penetrated Jack that he (Ennis) reaches his right hand around Jack's right side and starts to ... er ... stroke Jack.
Ennis reaches down, stroking Jack's ... er ... p enis at the same rhythym as his own penetration of Jack.
It appears Ennis climaxes first just before Jack, and Jack, about to climax, grabs hold of Ennis' right hand, which is already holding his ... er ... p enis and then helps Ennis to help him climax.
Whew! I am somewhat embarrassed now...... Sorry if I offended anyone
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by littlewing1957 (Thu Nov 9 2006 12:06:03 ) <<Whew! I am somewhat embarrassed now...... Sorry if I offended anyone>>
This is absolutely fascinating, Daphne! And don't be embarassed or worry about offending us. We can take it.
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by ka_baerchen (Thu Nov 9 2006 12:47:30 ) thx for your detailed post...
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by Dobie1018 (Fri Nov 10 2006 05:57:26 ) Thanks for the detailed description of TN#1 Daphne. As much as I try to see these things happening on my DVD, I just can't make it out. It's too dark. Guess I'll have to go have another look; this time in slo mo.
"I ain't yet had the opportunity."
"Hmmmm. . . . "
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by malina-5 (Fri Nov 10 2006 09:28:07 ) <<Whew! I am somewhat embarrassed now...... Sorry if I offended anyone >>
Daphne!!
Wow! I mean, wow! You've just blown my little mind!!
(And I don't thing you offended anyone.. I for one find it deeply unoffensive )
But... wow! I haven't been this astounded in a while!
Okay, I'm not even going to read the comments that follow right now. I just have to let this.. information.. settle.
Holy s hit! You are quite a brilliant lady (but I knew that already
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by BannerHill (Fri Nov 10 2006 09:46:31 ) Whaaaa.....
I seem to have missed a great deal. I am not at all aware of Ennis grabbing Jacks thingie. If it's there I sure did not see it.
Hmmmmmm
By the way, one of the great contrasts between ts1 and ts2 is that they are drunk in ts1 and not drunk at all in ts2. That fact really adds to the intimacy
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by daphne7661 (Fri Nov 10 2006 09:51:01 ) UPDATED Fri Nov 10 2006 09:59:34
Whaaaa.....
I seem to have missed a great deal. I am not at all aware of Ennis grabbing Jacks thingie. If it's there I sure did not see it.
Hmmmmmm
By the way, one of the great contrasts between ts1 and ts2 is that they are drunk in ts1 and not drunk at all in ts2. That fact really adds to the intimacy
Yes, of course, it is my interpretation of the scene, but if you can, watch again and pay close attention to Ennis' right arm and its movement, as well as, if not more particular interest to Ennis' right hand as it is shown near the very end of the scene. Ennis' hand is "around" something, that is pretty clear.
The rest is ... up to you to decipher!!!
Ooops, I'm blushing again... Oh My!!!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come? 18+ Now
by dav0001 5 days ago (Fri Dec 8 2006 23:46:54 ) daphne, all I have to say is ..wheew!! I don't think I've ever been so turned on by reading something in my life.
[post deleted]
Re: How come?
by ka_baerchen (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:46:04 ) Since you seem to be one of the sexperts here.
the seeming inadequacy of the small bit of spit.. the unavailability of anything that would have worked better.. I think part of the obvious response to that scene is, well, ouch!
Do you think they got something that "worked better" in the motel scene? Was it as intense as in the tent? And what about all the meetings along the years. Was it getting better? After they made their experiences they knew how to please each other...what they like and don't like. The sex was getting better and more laid-back.
Re: How come?
by littlewing1957 (Thu Nov 9 2006 12:01:53 ) <<I think so. And I will be forever grateful to belgianboy for filling in the gaps!>>
Yes, indeed! BelgianBoy really broke it down for us, didn't he?
Re: How come?
by redhowe (Fri Nov 24 2006 05:08:38 ) So what did BelgianBoy say? I want to know!
Re: How come?
by samrim-1 (Thu Nov 9 2006 10:00:28 ) Yes, Daphne, Jack must have felt some discomfort, some say even great pain, but I guess that couldn't be avoided...at first
Hi littlewing and all; I assume we are thinking that Jack was a virgin? I tend to think otherwise, though with no real proof. I doubt whether he was surprised at Ennis's response, or failed to enjoy the attention (!)
I agree too with the comment about Ennis learning about sex from observing the farm animals he had to tend. He seemed a real farm worker, concerned for his stock, keen to be on hand for the annual cycle of birth and growth etcetera. I stem from a country farming background, (a long way back!), and Ennis's character rings absolutely true.
Love our boys to bits!
Sam
Re: How come?
by samrim-1 (Thu Nov 9 2006 09:50:04 ) <<Jack is a strong, strapping young man>>
Oooh!
Sam
Re: How come?
by littlewing1957 (Thu Nov 9 2006 11:36:20 ) <<Oooh!>>
Yes, yes, yes!
Re: How come?
by chowhound (Thu Nov 9 2006 11:43:36 ) The brute physicality of TS1 makes possible the contrast with the tenderness and gentleness of TS2. The differences between the two we can all discuss if so desired. In general, I think, TS2 establishes that their relationship, while still physical, has developed into something far more endearing and engaging than the somewhat brutal sexuality of TS1.
Re: How come?
by daphne7661 (Sat Nov 11 2006 18:48:47 ) BUMP (to see if anyone has watched following my 18+ post)...
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come?
by fuxy_brown (Fri Nov 24 2006 05:38:26 ) either way they both enjoyed it lol
"Kiri kiri kiri kiri kiri kiri!
Deeper deeper deeper deeper deeper deeper!"
-Audition
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Re: How come? -- by crytal985
by merr7242 (Sat Jun 2 2007 16:38:55 ) Thank you TOoP for reposting this. I picked up on Daphne's 18+ description, but it took awhile. I noticed Jack hitting the ground and finally decided to see why. Daphne is right. Clears up a lot of questions too. Stupid me, I always wondered how it was good for both of them, not just Jack & Ennis. I finally noticed Ennis' arm reaching around Jack and it WAS holding something. Mmmmmmm.....Good.
MERR
Re: How come? -- by crytal985
by daphne7661 1 hour ago (Fri Jun 15 2007 23:16:02 ) Ohh, merr, I'm so glad you saw what I saw ... Nobody has ever seen that, or, if they have, I have not read it anywhere!!!!
Daphne
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: How come? -- by crytal985
by merr7242 1 hour ago (Fri Jun 15 2007 23:46:41 )
Hi Daphne, good to see you and good to see someone else here. It has been really quiet lately. I saw this thread back when it was first written. I remember what you said but I'd forgotten that I had posted too. I was just getting ready to post tonight when I saw that I had already said it a couple of weeks ago. I noticed that action very early on. I always wondered what was going on but it was plainer on the DVD. Of course, why else would Ennis have his arm through Jack's arm and it is pretty clear what he is doing with his hand.
Good for you to have the "guts" to write it the first time. You go girl!
MERR
Jack, I swear...... [Ennis Del Mar]
Re: How come? -- by crytal985 by malina-5 1 hour ago (Fri Jun 15 2007 23:57:08 ) I love this theory - and I'm totally willing to believe that it's 'fact' rather than 'theory', I just haven't had a chance to see for myself because my TV screen is so dark and has no zoom - but I love it because it's another element of their lovemaking - it's greater intimacy - it means Ennis was conscious of Jack, of what Jack was feeling, and not just of his own need. I love that... I loved it when I thought it was just clasped hands, too, because that's also a type of intimacy, and it seemed young and sweet... clinging together like that through this new experience they were sharing..
Daphne, I know you know this already, sweet, but I love the way your mind works
And I'm glad you saw it too, Merr.... and I just have to get myself a better TV, one of these days..
xo m.
in your eyes
I see the doorway to a thousand churches
