Did Ennis Want to End Relationship with Jack --- by Scotz_Angel

[TOoP/Bruce]

Did Ennis Want to End Relationship with Jack --- by Scotz_Angel --- 1 of 2

by - Scotz_Angel (Sun Mar 12 2006 04:57:32 )

I think he did although obviously not with his death but there last time on the mountain i think he wanted to finish it with Jack when he asked him to just let him be and saying that he didnt want to be like this anymore




by - nedrazeall (Sun Mar 12 2006 05:05:38 )

I think Ennis was just feeling desperate and trapped. They both were. I believe that neither of them would have been able to give up the other.




by - redhed-4 (Sun Mar 12 2006 05:12:10 )

imo, this was ennis reacting to the fact that they were once again leaving each other for who knows how long. and he didn't know how to deal with that; plus, each parting over the years became harder and harder...especially since they were never able to solve the hurdles that kept them apart...




by - Jokerstar (Sun Mar 12 2006 05:12:12 )

I don't think so, Ennis was the one who was always fighting against his feelings to Jack. I think this could've been caused by the situation back when was at the age of nine and his dad showed him this old rancher-guy who had been tortured to death for being gay. I think he even mentioned that his dad was involved.

Jack would've given up everything just to be with Ennis. He was the one talking about this ranch they could have together and stuff like that. In this scene that you mentioned we could see all the pain and anger about the situation they had. They wanted each other so badly but couldn't get along.




by - opinionista (Sun Mar 12 2006 05:14:08 )

No, I don't think he did. Otherwise, why would he send the last postcard asking Jack about the November meeting? The one he got with "Deceased" stamped on. He didn't want to break up. I think he said that out of desperation. Ennis was also suffering because living a double life was taking a toll on him emotionally. But he loved Jack too much to let him go. Jack was like breath of fresh air in his difficult life. Despite the problems they had by the end I think those moments with Jack were when Ennis was truly happy because he was being his true self. I doubt he would want to end that.

However, some of the regulars of this board, including myself, had a discussion a few weeks ago trying to figure out if Jack meant to break up with Ennis after that last argument at the lakeshore. Jack's father tells Ennis that Jack was planning to leave Lureen and move back to Wyoming with some rancher from Texas. We think that rancher was Randall, the man he meets at that texan party, where he dances with LaShawn Malone (Anna Faris' character). But we didn't reach to an agreement. I for one, think Jack wanted to break up and get on with his life. He was more in terms with his sexuality than Ennis was. However, that wouldn't mean he'd stop loving Ennis.




by - catglith (Sun Mar 12 2006 05:27:32 )

I always interpreted the 'why won't you just let me be' line as sign that Ennis was totally trapped and absorbed with his love for Jack, making him incapable of living a happy life. I never saw it as a plea to Jack to break up, more of a subtle declaration or admission to Jack that he loved him, because it showed Jack was constantly on his mind and wouldn't leave him alone - he was haunting Ennis.




by - andrewscotth (Sun Mar 12 2006 05:52:57 )

I agree Ennis didn't want to end the relationship (and probably never would) but he was at the stage where he was finding the whole thing unbearable and he couldn't cope emotionally. I don't know what the resolution could have been - perhaps he would have eventually realised he had to accept himself and Jack with him given more time - he couldn't have gone on like that forever.

I would be interested to read the thread about whether Jack had decided to end the relationship (could you link here please opinionista?). I have always thought that Jack in fact was at last moving on and had found someone like himself to have a better/more happy relationship. Where he and Randall sit outside the dancehall and Randall is suggesting what they could do together I really got the feeling that at last Jack had met someone who would make him happy, someone trully like himself. That is what kills me - the fact that he never got the chance to become happy in that relationship.

How and when was he going to tell Ennis though? That is intriguing!




by - kevinmcg (Sun Mar 12 2006 06:29:42 )

Not at all. They loved each other deeply, passionately, were made for each other. Unfortunately, their lives, their circumstances, their own failings made this impossible. Had Jack lived, they probably would have continued on as before. He did, however, take a small step by no longer dating Cassie, realizing he would have made her life miserable, just like Alma's, if he had continued. Wonder what would have happened after his responsibility for child support for his second daughter had ended.




by - redgryffindorclaw (Sun Mar 12 2006 06:29:57 )

ennis didt want to part with jack i mean in the context of their relationship... he just got jealous that jack went out with some prostitute to get the thing that he "needed"... and the lines that i wish i knew how to quit you... sounded to ennis like jack wanted to give thus ennis' reaction y dont u let me be... with those lines to that youd realize that ennis couldt do without jack... and its in that part that youd realize that ennis really loved jack and vice versa... bottom line i think both guys really wanted to be with each other..in fact i think that if ennis would finish his child support.. i think he would have a big tendency to be with jack permanently.. it was his financial obligations that was keeeping him away from jack... if he knew that he no longer had any responsibilities to anybody he loved he may have decided to move in with jack and fix his dads farm and just be together and fend for each other....




by - davidinhartford (Sun Mar 12 2006 06:39:41 )

You are correct! When Ennis makes that statement at the lake, he is trying to tell Jack that he has made sacrifices too for them to be together.

Here we have Jack spouting about how unhappy he is with things, and Ennis just looses it. He is upset that Jack hasn't seen that he (Ennis) has given him all he can. Ennis may have not been there enough for Jack, but Ennis did love him, and only him. So this was devastating news for Ennis. I think after that meeting Ennis went home and really contemplated that he may lose Jack. That is why he dumps Cassie the waitress after that meeting.

And that is the ultimate tragedy. That Ennis was perhaps coming to grips with thefact Jack was his number one love, yet Jack dies before they can meet in November. Was Ennis going to commit then? Was Jack even going to show up? I think if Jack had made his plans with Randall that summer, he would not have met Ennis. Jack knew that an admission (in November) to Ennis that he had replaced him would push Ennis over the edge.




by - kri9 (Sun Mar 12 2006 07:11:57 )
UPDATED Sun Mar 12 2006 07:44:00

I think it is definately implied that jack was going to set up home with Randall. Jack had constantly asked Ennis to be with him permanently and made it clear that it was ennis choice that they were meeting in such a sporadic fashion. He drives to see Ennis immediately when he hears of the divorce thinking that they could now be together, only now to have the children block him. I believe that although Ennis was obviously Jack's life - he would have left him to have what he wanted.

I don't think Ennis would ever have left Jack - his need was seen in the last scene of the shirts. In the house Jack's shirt was over Ennis' - by the time we see it in Ennis' wardrobe, we see that Ennis' shirt is over Jack's - a deliberate change that symbolises how deep Jack is within Ennis




by - MerryJoe_Moles (Sun Mar 12 2006 07:50:30 )

Did Ennis Want to End Relationship with Jack

It's quite the other way around. Jack wanted to end the relationship with Ennis, but Ennis could have gone on with the relationship quite nicely, thank you, as long as it was on his terms. But Jack finally grew up and said no more. Good for Jack I say. He deserved more out of life.




by - VerdiGuy (Sun Mar 12 2006 08:23:04 )
UPDATED Sun Mar 12 2006 08:25:44

One thing that few people mention is that right after Jack and Ennis sink to the ground in an embrace in the lake scene and Jack says, "Damn you, Ennis," Ennis responds, "Gosh, Jack, I just can't stand this anymore."

Ennis never really comes to terms with his sexual attraction to men. He's so much in love with Jack that he can only associate such feelings with Jack. That's why he remains faithful to Jack (in the sense that he never has sex with other men), but it's also why he continues to convince himself that he isn't "queer."

Jack, on the other hand, comes to understand early on that his sex drive is primarily directed toward men, even if Ennis has a special place in his heart. (Notice that the movie makes clear that Ennis and Alma have a pretty active sex life for a while, whereas we see all kinds of signs that Jack and Lureen's physical relationship cools off pretty quickly.) That's why Jack, missing Ennis as much as he does during their separation, seeks the poor consolation of sex with other men - which inspires his line to Ennis in the lake scene about "you threaten[ing] to kill me for needing something that I don't hardly never get."

I don't know if Jack really would have left Ennis, but I do believe that he was at least thinking about it. Ennis would always be the great love of Jack's life, but not everyone gets to marry the great love of his or her life. Circumstances sometimes keep us from doing that. Some people eventually acknowledge it and move on, because their desire to have *some* kind of permanent partner to build a life with on a day-to-day basis trumps the love they feel for someone with whom a regular life can't happen.

Jack seems to realize during this scene that the barriers that he *thought* kept him and Ennis apart - Alma, the girls, etc. - were no match for the most important barrier of all, which is a barrier that Ennis has built within himself. Over the years, Jack breaks down a lot of the introverted, introspective Ennis' defenses, but there's one final barricade that not even Jack can overcome. That seems to be the point where Jack decides that even if he doesn't feel for Randall what he feels for Ennis, at least with Randall he might be able to have some kind of *life* with another man. That now becomes more important to him than life with one *specific* man. He'd be settling for second-best by doing that, but by that point he's willing to settle.

Of course, all of this is just speculation, and it goes against something that both the script and Annie Proulx's original story say - that by the end of the lake scene, Jack and Ennis have managed to torque things back to where they were before, which I assume means that their relationship will continue as before, and that includes periodic blow-ups over the issue of their being together full-time. Perhaps the fact that this idea doesn't come across clearly to most of us who see the movie is one small failing in Ang Lee's realization of the script on film - or maybe it means that Lee simply has a different take on that scene than the writers do. After all, Diana Ossana has said in interviews that she believes that Lureen's tire accident story is the truth, while Lee has said that it's clear to him that Lureen is lying. Collaborators in the arts can often disagree while working toward the same goals!




by - silkncense (Sun Mar 12 2006 08:25:24 )

OK - I am disagreeing w/ most -

"Where he and Randall sit outside the dancehall and Randall is suggesting what they could do together I really got the feeling that at last Jack had met someone who would make him happy, someone trully like himself."

- Jack didn't even LOOK at Randall! - he knew what Randall was saying & was NOT interested. He obviously became involved w/ Randall much as he went to Mexico.

Also, Jack was thinking about ending his frustration w/ Ennis & finally, at his LAST visit home mentioned Randall (although they must have been together in some form for years). But Jack's Father says - about Jack coming back w/ the Ranch forman - like everything else, Jack NEVER followed through (and NOT because he died before he could - his father would not have worded it as he did). Jack brought Randall up when angry & frustrated, IMO, but emotionally he was not over Ennis.




by - lucise (Sun Mar 12 2006 08:47:57 )

Well-articulated verdiGuy! I agree with your points.




by - andrewscotth (Sun Mar 12 2006 09:04:21 )

That last point is really interesting - about the way his father words it - it could read that the plan to move in with Randall was already off - and that would explain more easily how Jack came to be in a position where he could be attacked which has always puzzled me.

Do we actually know when the scene at the dancehall with Randall took place?




by - davidinhartford (Sun Mar 12 2006 09:48:10 )

""Do we actually know when the scene at the dancehall with Randall took place?""

Yes, it was in 1978. So when Jack mentions the affair with the wife of the rancher (which we know was a lie, it was Randall) he could have been seeing Randall for up to five years.




by - andrewscotth (Sun Mar 12 2006 09:50:16 )

Gosh - thanks davidinhartford. That puts a whole new perspective on it for me!




by - carjones51 (Sun Mar 12 2006 09:59:31 )

Silkcense, I agree w/you.

Ennis didn't want to end things w/Jack. Before Ennis's tells Jack to just let him be, Jack has this whole speech where he is finally venting his frustrations. He says that Ennis is too much for him and that he wishes he knew how to quit Ennis. Ennis is devastated at this point. First, he learns, or rather it is confirmed that Jack has been sleeping w/other men. Second, Jack finally voices his complete frustration w/their "relationship." And last, Jack speaks of wanting to end things w/Ennis. Ennis is utterly devastated, so he tells Jack to just leave and let him be. But that's now what Ennis wants. Ennis loves Jack. He doesn't want Jack to leave him. That's why he breaks down. The thought of Jack leaving him literally breaks the man down. So, no, I would say that Ennis did not want to end his relationship w/Jack.

As far as Jack's plans w/Randall are concerned . . . . . nothing came of them. His father tells Ennis that Jack mentioned Randall THAT SPRING, but he never brought the guy like he said he was. So, that spring, Jack mentions Randall to his parents, but he clearly doesn't mention Randall again during his next visit to his parents and he sure doesn't bring the guy. In MY opinion, that means nothing of significance happened w/Randall. Jack mentioned Randall b/c he was frustrated and upset at his situaiton w/Ennis. I think Jack "wanted" to end things w/Ennis, but I don't know if he could. Jack even said that he wished he knew how to quit Ennis. That implies that he cannot give up on Ennis. I do think he was "thisclose" to giving up on Ennis, but I have no doubt that he would have shown up in November if he had not died. He may have given Ennis an ultimatum or demanded some changes, but he would have definitely shown up.

JMO.




by - davidinhartford (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:02:25 )

Indeed! Although, I don't think Jack took up Randall on his offer right away. Jack didn't look very interested to me at first. But maybe after several months of being away from Ennis he got lonely and went to Randall for physical comfort. After a few years of that, Jack no doubt felt it was better than nothing. He sure wasn't making progress with Ennis.




by - carjones51 (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:07:56 )

Well Andrew, Jack's father says, "like all of Jack's ideas/plans it (bringing up Randall and divorcing Lureen) never came to pass."

To me, that implies two things. One, some significant time passed (i.e., a couple of months or so) between Jack mentioning Randall and the next time he saw or spoke to his parents. Two, it also implies that it never happened, and not b/c of extraordinary circumstances like Jack's death, but b/c Jack never executed the plan for whatever reason.

If Jack mentioned Randall in May, then died a week later, I don't think the father would have compared Jack's idea of moving in w/Randall to his other ideas. The father speaks as though enough time passed for him to think that Jack's idea to move in w/Randall was just as likely to occur as his other ideas. In other words, it was NEVER going to occur.




by - andrewscotth (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:37:16 )

I think Jack and Randall were involved and for some time. He just wouldn't say to his folks he was planning to come and live with this guy if it was just an "idea" - someone he had known who had flirted with him. You would just never even mention someone to your parents like that. But just my opinion!




by - pipedream (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:39:52 )

I think Jack and Randall were involved and for some time.

Poor Jack, loving beautiful Ennis and having to make do with Randall....




by - ycart35 (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:42:57 )

well i do not think ennis did want to end things because he sent jack a postcard about meeting up in November and it came back marked deceased.




by - taj_e (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:46:27 )
UPDATED Sun Mar 12 2006 10:51:38

While it is obvious on Jack's, Ennis was clearly helpless
It was obvious that their 'brutal relationship' was killing him (both of them in fact)

Jack had been trying to no avail, to make Ennis believes that he can fix it and stand it (together with him)

The only person that had the advantage was Jack
Jack eventually quit on Ennis (And the fact that Jack died, perhaps it was the only way he can do that regardless if he was killed or died in an accident). And this was done out of love. He loved Ennis so much, he was willing to let Ennis go (Randall wasn't really necessary)

So perhaps YES, Ennis did want to quit on Jack but he has no courage to do so. He can't let go of Jack. The burden on Jack mounted. Out of love, he was 'forced' to let go

Unfortunately Ennis 'died' with the thought that 'he can't fix it and had to stand it' AND at the end, he never really quit on Jack. I strongly believed this because he knew how much Jack had loved him (the visit and conversations with Jack's parents, the shirts he discovered)
He was overwhelmed with guilt and love

If Jack was still alive, he must have been devasted. For all he must have wanted was for Ennis to live and find love

CaseyCornelius had a thread on maledictions displayed by Ennis that suggested that Ennis really wanted to end the relationship almost hinting on Jack to do something or to let him be OR to be deliberate, for Jack to eventually 'die'
He was like saying, go for it Jack, go and mess up with someone's wife and get killed; I'd killed you if I ever found you with another man; why don't you let me be...

[TOoP/Bruce]

Did Ennis Want to End Relationship with Jack --- by Scotz_Angel --- 2 of 2

by - carjones51 (Sun Mar 12 2006 10:56:02 )

No, Andrew, you misunderstand me. I definitely think Jack had something going on w/Randall. I pretty much knew he was going to get together w/Randall when Randall propositioned him on that bench. Then, Jack confirmed it when he told Ennis he had been seeing the ranch foreman's "wife." I knew that Jack was lying, and that the truth was he had been seeing Randall. At first, I thought he was actually going to tell Ennis about Randall b/c he said, "Truth is" and there was that long pause. I was on the edge of my seat just waiting for the drama! LOL :-)

What I was commenting on was whether Jack had anything "significant" going on w/Randall. By that I mean, had he and Randall discussed taking the relationship to the next level. Jack never specifically tells Ennis of his dream to bring Ennis to his parents' ranch, so why do we assume he discussed it w/Randall? I, personally, think Jack spoke a lot about what he wanted to do, but was never able to actually get those things accomplished. When he tells his parents about Randall, I think that, at that moment, it is what Jack wants. Now, did he feel the same way by the time he left and was headed back to Texas? Who knows. I tend to think he probably did not b/c Jack was in love w/Ennis. He wanted Ennis, not Randall. He didn't want to settle for Randall.

Plus, I don't think anything changed btw Ennis and Jack. After their fight, we see Ennis leaving. Things were obviously patched up b/c I cannot imagine Ennis leaving w/o things being semi-settled between them. I'm sure Jack reassured Ennis, they talked some, hugged, and parted ways. Ennis also sends Jack the postcard, confirming the November date. Cleary, Ennis thinks they are still meeting up, so I know Jack must think the same thing. In my opinion, Jack would have met Ennis in November as planned. He may have demanded some changes, but he would have met w/him before ending things. I don't think he would have never shown up or sent him some janky response via postcard.

But that is JMO.




by - andrewscotth (Sun Mar 12 2006 11:03:10 )

Brilliant - thanks!




by - opinionista (Sun Mar 12 2006 11:10:51 )
UPDATED Sun Mar 12 2006 11:11:10

I think Jack plans to move in with Randall never happen because he dies. Jack loved Ennis but he was fed up with the situation. He was unconfortable and unhappy. He says it. Remember the lines:

"Friend, this is a goddamned bitch of an unsatisfactory situation"

"I can't make it on a coupla high-altitude *beep* once or twice a year!"




by - lo-eveline (Sun Mar 12 2006 11:47:10 )

>>The love and desire between Ennis and Jack was completely a till death do us part situation for both of them and on some level they both knew it.<<

I agree... that's how I felt when I first read the story (before I watched the movie). Jack had to die. Sadly , it's the only way to end the story.

Although I also tend to believe that things might have to chance to improve if they did get to meet in Nov. But given how broken and damaged Ennis is, his issues with own identity, it would take something like Jack's death to make him realise just how much he has lost and how much Jack loved him.




by - carjones51 (Sun Mar 12 2006 12:59:35 )

But remember this line: "I wish I knew how to quit you."

That's the last thing Jack says AFTER he speaks about how unsatisfactory their situation is and how dissatisified he is w/their relationship.

So, would Jack have really ended things w/Ennis? I'm not sure. I think he wanted to end things so he could have a life w/a man, but would he have done so? I just don't know.




by - carjones51 (Sun Mar 12 2006 13:15:14 )

I see no reason to introduce the Randall character if Jack did not have an affair w/him. If Jack's father was lying and Jack did have an affair w/some rancher's wife, why were we, the audience, introduced to Randall. The character serves no other purpose to the story if Jack is not seeing him. Other than showing Jack w/Randall, I think the film makes it quite clear that he was seeing Randall.

Randall is clearly making eyes at Jack at the dinner table. He propositions Jack while they're sitting on the bench. We never hear Jack's answer, but Jack mentioning sleeping w/the "wife" of a rancher is the closest we're going to get to confirming that he did take up w/Randall. Plus, we have Jack's father telling Ennis that Jack always spoke of "Ennis del Mar" but mentioned some new guy that spring. Jack's father, while a jerk, doesn't seem like an outright liar. He said that to hurt Ennis b/c he's a jerk, and that's what Jack told them that past spring.

In addition, Jack is gay. He seemed gay from the very beginning of the movie. He is more comfortable w/what he wants. Remember, he tries to pick up that clown. He goes to Mexico to seek male prostitutes. He more than likely takes up w/Randall. Jack is a gay man who desires gay sex. The odds of him actually seeing Randall's wife are pretty slim, in my opinion. Not to be crude, but those women lack "something" Jack clearly needs and wants.




by - kthstewart (Sun Mar 12 2006 13:27:26 )

When Jack said "I wish I knew how quit you" Ennis said "why don't you then?" Notice Ennis was putting the burden on Jack. I think they were both hurting. Jack said "this is one hell of an unsatisfactory situation that we have." They neither liked the situation that they were in but Ennis didn't know how to change it. He had child payments and his two daughters to think about so he couldn't leave. They were both caught in a no win situation.

I think Jack may have considered "quitting Ennis" but I don't think he really had the will power to do it. I just don't think Jack knew how to move on. Ennis could not move on because family responsibilities made it impossible for him to move.




by - davidinhartford (Sun Mar 12 2006 13:57:00 )

Keith: True, but Alma Jr. was 19 yrs old. doesn't child support stop at 18? If so, Ennis was almost in the clear with his financial responcibility. Who knows, maybe Ennis spent that summer contemplating his future with Jack? The girls were grown up, Alma remarried and Ennis dumps Cassie. Ennis sends Jack the postcard about November. Hmmm?

I think Ennis was telling the truth about having to work thru till november as a trade off for getting the time off in May with Jack. So maybe Ennis was going to have a new outlook in November? Of course, that realization is crushed out by the news of Jacks death. We see how Ennis imagines the murder which of course was his worst fear. So I agree with Ann Proulx when she said Ennis would retreat further into his shell after Jacks death.




by - terryhall2 (Sun Mar 12 2006 14:11:04 )

Sometimes people say things to the one they love (and who isn't responding as much) that they are seeing someone just to get that response. In factm nearly everyone does this in a newish relationship to 'test the emotional waters'
I think Jack may have had a few trysts with Randall (his character in the book indicates he was doing more than pulling his own when away from Ennis) but it STILL is not sufficient for Jack, who really loves Ennis. 'Tell you what, the truth is...sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.' That implies that Randall means nothing at all to him emotionally, even if their relationship had got physical. Jack doesn't really relish having 'second best'. In several scenes Jack wants to pull away from Ennis because it is going nowhere but is not able to (neither of them are able to in fact)




by - terryhall2 (Sun Mar 12 2006 14:30:31 )

I think the Randall character heightens Jack's displeasure at the situation he finds himself in with Ennis...he's been doing all the running around after all. The idea of knowing Randall was around gives him the courage to air further his resentments with Ennis. I don't think they had anything substantial going. However, if they did, Jack might have thought he was in reasonably safe hands...but how do we know that Randall might not have been setting him up? Say Jack decided to go on a fishing trip with Randall, and it was whilst with him he was set upon by the assailants and killed. Why else would that happen? Jack, until Randall, does nothing in Childress with other men to cause any concern. (Ennis is in Wyoming and the other guys in Mexico.)
Also, I think Jack had finally torn down all of Ennis' excuses..to be left only with the one about child payments. But Jack had said a decade before that his father-in-law would pay him to get lost and they could buy a ranch together. I'm sure that would also have covered child payments, especially considering there was probably only a few more years to go. So, the long dawning was that Ennis himself is the problem and always has been.




by - carjones51 (Sun Mar 12 2006 14:32:47 )

You'll get no argument from me, Terry!

I think that whatever Jack had going on w/Randall, it wasn't nearly as significant or as important to Jack as what Jack had going on w/Ennis. Jack used Randall (and trips to Mexico) to satisfy his sexual/physical urges, but what he really wanted was Ennis on a permanent basis. I don't think Jack loved Randall or even wanted to be w/Randall. Jack loved Ennis. He wanted to be w/Ennis. That's why he stayed w/Ennis for 20 years. Jack loved him and kept waiting for the day when Ennis would say they could be together.




by - VerdiGuy (Sun Mar 12 2006 14:44:23 )

I like your point.

The short story would make it a little more complicated by the time of the lake scene, though, because that version, unlike the movie, makes clear that by that time L.B. has died and Lureen has inherited the business. I doubt that *Lureen* would have given Jack money to go away and set up with Ennis!




by - silkncense (Sun Mar 12 2006 19:31:02 )

And Carjones 51 - I completely agree w/ you this time.




by - taj_e (Sun Mar 12 2006 20:02:31 )

kthstewart
Exactly, the burden was on Jack
Jack did move on the fact that Randall's character was introduced (as someone mentioned). While doing so, he did 'quit' on Ennis (not stop loving him though)




by - taj_e (Sun Mar 12 2006 20:06:36 )

carjones51
***say they could be together***
Reminds me of Mariah Carey's
I see that the thread tends to stress on Jack's intention more to Ennis
I agree with you that Randall wasn't really necessary for Jack eventually quit on Ennis. Jack loved Ennis so much, he let go...




by - ActorHector (Sun Mar 12 2006 20:09:21 )

They were so into each other that Jack prevented Ennis from living his own life. You can find several bits and pieces in the film that indicate Ennis is
just as much into Jack as vice versa.
The "you bet" on the postcard, the flashback scene, the ending..

So I think that Ennis' mind was working overtime thinking about Jack yet not
finding a solution (since he knew they would never live together).




by - pipedream (Wed Mar 15 2006 08:05:05 )
UPDATED Wed Mar 15 2006 08:06:36

Randall means nothing at all to him emotionally, even if their relationship had got physical

I agree, and I guess the fact that his name sounds a bit like "random" is no coincidence. As a person, Randall isn't that important to Jack. He just represents a substitute (and a weak one) for what Jack really wants.




by - SuperBatMan (Thu Mar 23 2006 00:20:57 )

"I don't think Ennis would ever have left Jack - his need was seen in the last scene of the shirts. In the house Jack's shirt was over Ennis' - by the time we see it in Ennis' wardrobe, we see that Ennis' shirt is over Jack's - a deliberate change that symbolises how deep Jack is within Ennis"

hey kri,I had noticed the same thing!.




by - super-sally (Sat Apr 8 2006 21:15:22 )

I don't think anything happened with Randall, When Randall tells Jack about the cabin I think Jack is confused, Does Randall know? Is he just trying to be friendly? Does he know and want to be with Jack? Does he know and want to expose Jack? As for Jack and Ennis, they could never leave each other, we all know that




by - nknymphet (Fri May 12 2006 10:21:48 )

Nope. My take on Ennis' saying "let me be" is that he was not speaking from his heart. I feel he was a little overwhelmed by Jack's confession about Mexico, this made him jealous but he would not admit it. The emotions are quite subtle here but he was heartbroken at the knowledge that Jack ever thought about quitting him, even though he knew Jack loved him a lot.