Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .-- by artsybaebe
by - artsybaebe 17 hours ago (Sun May 14 2006 14:05:50 )
cajones . . .
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but does this strike anyone else as odd? When Ennis returns after the first night he switched with Jack and slept with the sheep, and while he is washing up, he actually *starts* a conversation with Jack, saying that he shot a coyote out there and that it was 'a big SOB [pause] balls on him the size of apples'.
Now, mind you, I'm a woman, and maybe I need some guys opinions here, but doesn't that seem like a rather *provocative* thing for a guy to say to another guy, with his shirt off, no less (and then immediately thereafter, of course, we say Ennis totally naked while washing his other parts, including his own cajones, while Jack tries not to look).
.
Does anyone else think the rather direct reference to 'balls' might have been perceived by Jack as a bit of a come on, or at least a test balloon? And if so, do you think it was unconscious or deliberate on Ennis's part?
If you don't mind hearing from me
by - lauragigs 17 hours ago (Sun May 14 2006 14:30:15 )
I agree this may be best answered by a guy, but my .02:
As to whether it's perceived by Jack as a bit of a come on, I have no idea. I do feel strongly that it would be completely unconscious on Ennis's part, since he would never consciously have acknlowleged an attaction to Jack at that point, even to himself.
(Ennis does say "Earlier today I was castratin' calves" quite bluntly to Cassie, so I imagine these topics are relatively mundane to guys like him. Although it was pointed out that he may have said that to gross Cassie out, hoping she would leave him alone! )
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - jeaniebaby001 17 hours ago (Sun May 14 2006 14:36:18 )
UPDATED Sun May 14 2006 14:38:55
It all means that Ennis tries too hard to pretend to talk like a straight guy. Perhaps gleaning from his father, to him that means talking in a degrading or snide manner about male genitalia. haha. I actually know people like that. It's called overcompensation.
"William Buckley wrote a book at Yale; I read one"~ GW Bush
I'll hug your elephant if you kiss my ass
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - artsybaebe 5 hours ago (Mon May 15 2006 01:56:39 )
was hoping for some male insights here, from any perspective gay, bi, straight, etc . . .
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - revolution-hk 5 hours ago (Mon May 15 2006 02:05:44 )
UPDATED Mon May 15 2006 02:12:42
My attention have drawn to the fact that, it was not a conversation. Jack never respond to his words.
I'm sure that's not becoz he was messing up with the beans. Maybe he was figuring out why Ennis trying to tell him this.
"A coyote? Ah, I said about a coyote yesterday. He switched position with me, he got the coyote for me. Oh Ennis..."
and a moment later,
"Damn you Ennis I'm hold a knife, don't make me cut my fingers."
"If you can't fix it....call the support hot-line."
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - PeterDecker 4 hours ago (Mon May 15 2006 03:07:36 )
I'm a gay guy and I wouldn't read anything into this. This is exactly the kind of language you'd expect from someone out in the country. There's nothing gay about it and it's not a come on.
But, funnily enough, the fact that Ennis decides to "warsh up" naked as a buck only a few feet away from Jack does make me wonder. I mean wouldn't common decency require that you went some distance away for privacy -- and not a few feet away from Jack as he's peeling the potatoes.
I think Jack's not turning to look was a masterstroke on Lee's part. You're just itching for it to happen but it never does. It's all happening deep inside somewhere and we only get to see the traces of the emotion on the surface.
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - taj_e 4 hours ago (Mon May 15 2006 03:14:00 )
It's quite common language/conversation between men
Jack wasn't getting any 'hint' other than pissed off because he missed earlier and the fact that Ennis seemed to enjoy switching task when initially his main intention was for the two of them stay together
Ennis was just happy and proud for killing one lol
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - bjblakeslee 3 hours ago (Mon May 15 2006 04:00:30 )
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but does this strike anyone else as odd? When Ennis returns after the first night he switched with Jack and slept with the sheep, and while he is washing up, he actually *starts* a conversation with Jack, saying that he shot a coyote out there and that it was 'a big SOB [pause] balls on him the size of apples'.
While I think it is intended to pass as "guy talk" amongst the characters, I actually think the author may have had purpose for this reference--it helps to amplify the "Garden of Eden" allegorical theme by putting a "forbidden fruit" reference in a sexual context.
Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - artsybaebe 2 hours ago (Mon May 15 2006 05:05:05 )
oh, this is brilliant--I love this 'Garden of Eden'/forbidden fruit metaphor. Thanks for that very interesting insight . . . I do think there's more to it, as it does come across as a decidedly odd and awkward moment in the film, however 'normative' it might be in the context of ranch dudes' chit-chat.
I dunno, I'm a woman and hetero, but it seems to me that Ennis's comment was rather provocative--does one normally describe the size of a coyote by referring to the size of their balls? Is that a self-evident measure of something? I mean, couldn't he have used some other expression like, a coyote the size of a horse or something? Again, why specifically 'balls the size of apples' and then go on within minutes thereafter to strip buck naked and wash his privates within feet of Jack? I never paid much attention to this before, but I guess I am starting to wonder if he was doing this on purpose . . . can we necessarily assume that he is utterly clueless as to Jack's homoerotic interest in him? If not, then wouldn't the whole highly charged scene (ie with Ennis 'washing up' in close proximity) become much more interesting with Ennis on some level playing a bit the provocateur and a tease?
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - andros12 1 hour ago (Mon May 15 2006 06:32:16 )
Re" "balls of apples"
--it helps to amplify the "Garden of Eden" allegorical theme by putting a "forbidden fruit" reference in a sexual context.
Wonderfully penetrating insight bjblakeslee. This event followed by Ennis' nudity to the effect..."they were naked and not ashamed."
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - artsybaebe 1 hour ago (Mon May 15 2006 06:34:13 )
and kudos to you, andros12, very nice!!
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - andros12 58 minutes ago (Mon May 15 2006 06:42:17 )
Thanks artsybaebe. This scenario is another example and proof of the depth of the multi-textured masterpiece that we have come to know and love. Wonderful!
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - taj_e 11 minutes ago (Mon May 15 2006 07:28:59 )
'balls of apples' lol
Lots of movies have used this or at least similar to it. It was also common during my school/uni days and even now
The last movie I remembered using the line perhaps was King Arthur when one of them talks about going back home, free from the Romans and can't wait to get back to their loved ones
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .
by - naun 32 minutes ago (Mon May 15 2006 07:07:50 )
>>it helps to amplify the "Garden of Eden" allegorical theme by putting a "forbidden fruit" reference in a sexual context. <<
And as I mentioned in a previous thread, there is a brief shot a little later on showing the coyote's pelt wound around a stick, looking almost like a serpent in a tree. I'll post a timing later when I can get to my DVD player, unless someone else does it first.
Re: Ennis's Comment about the Coyote's . . .(REPOST)
by darkoKnight33 (Fri Feb 2 2007 10:08:05 )
Nice repost reposter, you soothsayer of resurrection, recrudescent prognosticator of beauty.
To address the topic of origin, I like the idea of Ennis, with or without conscious intent, surreptitiously flirting with our boy Jack. I don't however, subscribe to it. We have to keep in mind that Ennis, and people of similar experience, are socialized in different terms than most others. I mean, in the sense that they are raised in an agrarian lifestyle with heavy exposure to animals such as cattle, horses, sheep etc. along with these beasts' mortal enemies. They are involved with aspects of both animal and human life that most don't see and, frankly, aren't aware. They are taught to notice subtle details so that they can make judgements about certain animals for certain reasons. Reproduction is the first example that comes to mind (and this actually holds true even for us people in certain ways), like genetalia may be something one looks at when attempting to copulate more livestock; the bigger the 'package', in theory, the more fertile and superior the suitor. What I am trying to get at in this long-winded proposal is that I think basically it was a cowboy's way of boasting a little bit. Like Ennis was saying 'yeah I shot me a coyot while I was up there, wasn't no useless runt either, he was an alpha male'("..balls on 'em size'a'apples").
