Jack's dangerous side...
by adamx013 (Thu Feb 9 2006 18:05:27 ) One thing that has not quite been commented on is how Jack seduced Ennis not only with his sweet, caring, and affectionate side, but also with a hint of dangerousness (helped along by his darker features and his black hat, if you want to get symbolic). The scene which jumps out most in my mind is when he and Ennis have already been in camp for some time but are not really friendly yet. There is that shot where you see Ennis picking up the dirty dishes from around the campfire, and then he and the camera sort of whip around at the same point, because you can both see and hear Jack on that highstrung horse whipping around and around in circles. You can hear the horse' hoofs hitting the dirt and Jack's breathing, and there is dead silence so that your focus is really on them. You can see by Ennis' staring so intently at them that this has thrown him for a loop a little and is somewhat shocking.
Then Jack rides off, and that is when you see Ennis lean back a little from under his hat to stare at retreating Jack, then lean back even a little further. Ennis' interest has been peaked, and I think part of it is that he does not quite understand nor can predict Jack, that Jack is somewhat mysterious and out of Ennis' control, and I think this is a big draw for Ennis, who has always been so safe and buttoned up emotionally. I think it is also a very erotic moment which prefigures what will happen between Jack and Ennis.
What do you think?
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by stitchbuffymoulinfan (Thu Feb 9 2006 19:38:04 ) You know, I've always wondered about that scene. Do you think Jack was trying to impress Ennis by riding the horse like a rodeo horse?
Ennis, I agree, did seem interested in that scene. I think that was one of his first instances of being subconsciously attracted to Jack.
And since you mentioned the black hat, I thought it shadowed over Jake's face in a really cool way in some of the shots. He looked cool in it, but that's just my opinion.
What does everyone else think about adamx's point? It intrigues me.
www.jlodown.com www.petitionspot.com/petitions/jlodownRe: Jack's dangerous side...
by elijah_tm (Thu Feb 9 2006 20:25:55 ) Do you think Jack was trying to impress Ennis by riding the horse like a rodeo horse?
Absolutely. Next time you see it watch Jack just after he gets the horse under control but just before he rides off, he sneaks a glance over at Ennis real quick to see his reaction.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by srrj_98 (Sat Feb 11 2006 21:49:00 ) You mention the "rodeo horse", and I liked that. They don't really touch on it in the movie, but in the story there is at least a passing mention of the horses the two choose. Ennis's horse is steady, but Jack chooses a more spirited, hard to control horse. This seems, to me, to typify the different approaches they take to almost everything.
I think Jack was trying to control the horse...
by Carol703 (Thu Feb 9 2006 19:41:42 ) and not fall off and look like a fool in front of Ennis. I don't think he was showing off.
Re: I think Jack was trying to control the horse...
by slayers_creek_oth (Thu Feb 9 2006 19:45:56 ) UPDATED Thu Feb 9 2006 19:49:23
Thats a little bit of a contradiction there because if he is tryin to not look like a fool........he is obviously showing off.........
If he wasn't tryin to show off.......then he wouldn't care what he looked like.....JMO
Only a life lived for others is worth living. - Albert Einstein
Re: I think Jack was trying to control the horse...
by adamx013 (Thu Feb 9 2006 19:53:20 ) Exactly, I think there was at least an edginess there where Jack was trying to prove himself somehow. The way the scene was played and filmed, with no music, no laughter, very serious feel overall, gave it a hint of danger and/or foreboding, or at least mystery, at least to me. And it definitely made Ennis take note in a way which he might not have if Jack was just playing the goof.
Re: I think Jack was trying to control the horse...
by RobertPlant (Fri Feb 10 2006 00:48:57 ) UPDATED Fri Feb 10 2006 00:49:35
His glance at Ennis is meaningful..
and I think the nervous horse he is trying to control represents something..
you know what I mean.
I'm packing my bags for the Misty Mountains
over the hills where the spirits fly
Re: I think Jack was trying to control the horse...
by zigzo_pazoru (Fri Feb 10 2006 02:14:13 ) ...oh my, I never looked at it that way. This is eerie and wonderful. He takes control of that nervous horse but the horse eventually throws him later...just like Ennis.
Wow. SO MUCH IMAGERY AND IMPORTANCE IN THE LITTLEST OF SCENES! I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!
~~~~~~~~
I'll quote whatever I feel like quoting, GOSH!!
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by amh625 (Thu Feb 9 2006 19:44:58 ) UPDATED Thu Feb 9 2006 19:45:41
I didn't really take this scene as Ennis' seeing a dangerous side of Jack, but rather the vulnerable side of Jack. Like in the beginning when he said he doubted there was a philly that could throw him, and then Ennis witnessed him having trouble controlling the horse and Jack was embarrassed in front of Ennis. Jack had a mild sense of bravado about him (albeit it very sweet), and I think this was one of the first moments that Ennis got a glimpse of the more exposed Jack beneath that. But yes, I agree that moment did pique Ennis' interest and maybe touched his soul a little.
"I'm not going to wait for the world to be perfect to make movies." -- Ang Lee
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by icecreamfillin (Thu Jun 22 2006 12:28:24 ) Good point!
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by lucise (Thu Feb 9 2006 19:51:46 ) UPDATED Sun Mar 12 2006 23:08:27
I agree that Ennis' interest in Jack was piqued in that scene. This can be seen from the way he looks at Jack when he rides away.
About the horse - Jack was just trying to keep control of it (remember that the horse had a low startle point?). Jack was all too conscious that Ennis was looking at him, so i think he wasn't about to fall off that horse on his arse! :-)
Again, in this scene, they say nothing to each other - but their expressions and the tension between them can be felt. Utterly amazing!
'If you sleep through life, you wake up dead.'
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by Lurcher-2 (Thu Feb 9 2006 20:01:19 ) I don't think there's anything dark and dangerous and Symbolic here; I agree with the others who see Jack showing off a bit for Ennis. Though the script is non-committal; it just says:
"JACK mounts his bay mare. She crow-hops a little; he keeps her under control.
JACK
No more beans.
Rides off, ENNIS watching him go."
(That bay mare got changed to a buckskin on film, btw. I think she was also used again for Jack several years later - maybe Jake, an inexperienced ride, did better with her.)
And I think Ennis is watching because he likes watching Jack, even though he hasn't yet realized this himself.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by Darrell-270 (Thu Feb 9 2006 20:01:27 )
Ennis may have had his interest peeked because of the statement that Jack made earlier about never being thrown from a horse before. This could be the moment that the horse throws him!
Jack obviously was thrown from a horse before as he claimed his mouth organ was busted because of a horse that threw him. Actually, poor Jack couldn't get much right. Everything he did seemed to go wrong during his life. Even outside of his life he wanted his ashes scattered across Brokeback Mountain. That never happened either.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by adamx013 (Thu Feb 9 2006 20:12:55 ) Yeah but he was still able to successfully seduce someone like Ennis (very hot but very remote)! That is quite an achievement!
I still do think that scene was fraught with more meaning and tension than some seem to think, but of course everyone can come to their own conclusion. It just hit me when I saw it again the other day and I really feel that it is one of those telling moments which Ang included towards building up the sexual tension and desire between Jack and Ennis, especially given they had so little dialogue.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by Lurcher-2 (Thu Feb 9 2006 20:19:44 ) "I really feel that it is one of those telling moments which Ang included towards building up the sexual tension and desire between Jack and Ennis, especially given they had so little dialogue.
Oh, I absolutely agree with you there, adam.. Maybe I misunderstood you; I thought you were equating this with something more sinister and melodramatic. Yes, Lee does a lot with looking - and non-looking!
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by vcarson101 (Sat Feb 11 2006 22:38:55 ) Ennis kinda catches himself a bit after he looks a Jack for a while. Jack seems to say see I did it. Got the horse under control that is .
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by stevme (Sun Mar 12 2006 13:42:05 ) Exactly. We know Ang does not waste film; so the scene was there to move the story forward. Some interesting points that I have not previously seen discussed.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by jshane2002 (Sat Mar 11 2006 23:04:34 ) Saw BBM for the 8th time this week. I sat in third row of the theater. The picture was huge. I couldn't get over how much you could see both of them making furtive looks at each other. Ennis steals his looks at Jack from under his cowboy hat, you see it when they walk to the bar and Ennis is behind Jack, when they are in the bar and so on. By the time you see that scene where Jack is trying to control the horse and Jack turns round on the horse so Ennis has a profile view of Jack in his tight jeans on the saddle Ennis is practically bugging out at Jack. It's like he's ready to whistle saying he likes what he sees, like Jack is one of the foxiest guys he's ever seen. Later, Jack is taking a piss with his back to Ennis and Ennis is eating beans he says "mmmm" even so he's supposed to be sick of beans.
The movie makes much more sense when you see all this. A lot of people have said they were surprised by Jack's brazen move grabbing Ennis' hand and guiding it down to his dick. There's another excellent thread I'll go back and find where other people discuss the first half hour where the two gradually become aware of the mutual interest.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by deedee120 (Sun Mar 12 2006 13:52:29 ) You're right, shane. I went for the uh...16th, thats right, time with a friend and I told her to watch their facial expressions very carefully. There is so much I did not catch the first few times. I just noticed very recently when Ennis first comes into the tent (1st scene) and lays down, we see Jack slightly pick his head up aware of Ennis next to him.. That in itself is a great scene.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by Wiggitywiggity (Mon Mar 13 2006 00:12:37 ) Hmmm...I love this thread. Every time I read people's facinating responses and interpretations of the movie, it just makes me love the film and its story ever so more...
I often wondered also, if perhaps Jack's deliberate selection of wild, high spirited, rebellious mares might be symbollic in his efforts to tame the wild and reclusive Ennis. Just a thought....
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by hibbler (Sun Mar 19 2006 01:04:01 ) I had a totally different impression of that scene, with the bucking horse. I didn't think Jack was trying to ride it like a rodeo horse; I felt that Jack just had trouble controlling that horse with a "high startle point", and his look back at Ennis was (to me) slightly embarrassed that Ennis saw him being unable to control the horse. That was kind of sweet to me, that he didn't like Ennis seeing that.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by buyorsell888 (Tue Apr 11 2006 08:32:19 ) It is very common for horses to be "frisky" in the morning especially when they aren't fully trained, are "greenbroke" as a cowboys horse from the bosses string/remuda often would be. The horse was settled down later because of being ridden daily. The horses most likely have been out on the range for the entire winter and then rounded up for their use. It would not be common for the working cowhorses to be kept in stables and worked with when not being used. Even now.
That doesn't mean Jack didn't deliberately pick a rank horse to show off.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by LauraGigs (Tue Apr 11 2006 08:41:12 ) Neat, buyorsell888. Glad to have someone to give cowboy-related insights! (Also cool to learn a new word: "remuda")
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by gtaylor0 (Sun Apr 16 2006 06:39:21 ) Jack seems al ittle too confident in that scene to be embarrassed. Remember, after he gest control he looks at aEnnis before he rides off and says "No more beans," an order! He was the center and Ennis' attention right there, and he knew it.
Re: Bump
by ailuro (Mon May 22 2006 22:34:16 ) More on Jack's dangerous side-
How bout the Jimbo the clown scene, whereby after the rebuff, the bartender asks Jack if he had ever tried calf roping.
Jack turns slowly towards the bartender as if he'd forgotten he was there. The look on his face is very telling, he's pissed & concerned because he doesn't understand what has just happened.
Fixes the bartender with a steely stare & says;
" Do I look like I can afford a f u c k i n' ropin' horse? " Its almost as if he's calling the guy an assh*le without saying it. Of course Jack has to hightail it outta there 'cause Jimbo just has to tell his buds.
Jack's dangerous when it comes to his own safety as well, as the above illustrates. Either that or naive.
But I love him just the same. His recklessness is part of the attraction I suppose.
Jack "I'd love to rope a coyote."
Ennis "I doubt I'll live to see that miracle..."
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by taje (Tue Apr 11 2006 11:22:51 ) Hi Adam
You mentioned the scene which was one of my favourite scenes on BBM. Ennis always had that 'looks' few times in fact.
1. Outside Aguirre's trailer when Jack introduced himself and insisted his full name (and remember how daring Jack was in his approach (almost) and it looks like Ennis wanted to run away but had no place to go)
2. The bar scene when Jack told his previous experience
3. The jump-off point
4. The part where he first mentioned Alma (Jack was whining as always)
5. The scene you mentioned. Ennis nearly drop the dishes (am not sure if this was before or after point 4)
I also noticed that while Ennis squatting and was preparing meals, we see Jack came up with two pail of water, and his choice of tools, an axe as compared to Ennis (saw)
Jack seemed to be doing the hard part of the job (sheep tender) and Ennis the lesser part, doing the domestic chores (camp tender)
I see this as Ennis got to understand Jack's character little by little. He found him 'funny', a little cocky and show-off and above all talkative. Ennis might have realised a possible friendship then. His nurturing instinct developed there on. And we see Jack 'manipulated' this (the beans and the elk, the switch)
I just read one of the interviews listed on steve's thread
If not mistaken it was Ossana's saying that Jack was the 'temptation'
And I thought Jack was both the apple and the serpent (probably the Eve too, but then maybe Ennis was both Adam and Eve)
'I wish I know how to quit BBM...'
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by terryhall2 (Sun May 28 2006 09:20:07 )
I think Jack is an angel (I've said this elsewhere) He appears dangerous because he represents freedom, daring to live, risk-taking, acceptance of who he is. All these things are dangerous to others who never really live life outside their comfort zones. I think THAT is more dangerous than living life to the full. Remember Jack is aslo tender, forgiving, loving and nurturing, helpful and considerate. He will go for miles to get what he thinks is right (he even cared more than Lureen about Bobby's upbringing, it seems)
That's why others on the board see him as the wind, spirit, a breath of fresh air. There's nothing malicious about him at all.
Re: Jack's dangerous side...
by RingerFanatic (Sun May 28 2006 17:44:56 ) lol. That's a good point. Plus, there were scenes where you see Jack sleeping on the rock, petting the dog. Seems like he was enjoying himself with the sheep. Not too hard at all.
