REPOST (many thanks to "TDE" for saving this thread)
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The Train! THE END!! --- by jack205
by - jack205 (Thu Apr 27 2006 12:21:11 )
There is a train at the beginning which represents the beginning of their journey together, is there anything that represents the end, or isn't their one because their love is 'never-ending'? Is jack spelt out the opposite to the train?
by - Matt_Dupuy (Thu Apr 27 2006 12:24:26 )
the jamaican/mex war signified the end of their journey
by - DSTgar (Thu Apr 27 2006 12:39:38 )
Probably better to think of the trucks driving across the screen to bookend the relationship.
by - CaseyCornelius (Thu Apr 27 2006 12:58:29 )
UPDATED Thu Apr 27 2006 13:17:56
jack205, MattDupuy:
No one else seems to have mentioned something that struck me on recently viewing the film - I must confess - with the 1/8 speed slo-mo engaged on the nightmarishly imagined scene in Ennis's mind of Jack being the victim of a hate-crime beating.
[Yes, I'm in the camp which sees the way Jack died as completely ambiguous as far as Ang Lee AND Annie Proulx are concerned - the real tragedy in the book/film is the inescapable self-hatred and homophobia of Ennis himself.]
Balancing the opening of the film in which we see train tracks [and a train] traversing the screen frame diagonally, from foreground left to background centre, as Jack 'enters' the film in his wheezing truck is the only other set of train tracks which are visible in the film. And these occur in the 'scene' of 'Jack's murder', the action of which, in the establishing shot, is enclosed by a fence on the left and a set of train tracks traversing the frame symmetrically with the opening shot - ie. extending from background-centre down to foreground right.
Given it is absolutely the last time we catch sight of Jack AND given Ang Lee's astounding attention to detail throughout the film - especially with regard to both narrative and visual balance and symmetry - I don't doubt for an instant that Lee has thought the structure of the film out to this Nth degree. IE, that the entrance and 'exit' of Jack's character is linked, associated, balanced, and 'enclosed' within the visual element of the train tracks.
That's my thought - 'for what it's worth' - for the present. I'm sure some of the regulars, if they see this, will want to get into a discussion regarding it. And it's yet one more symmetry which naun, others, and myself can add to our growing list of symmetries and correspondences throughout the film.
by - patsnnott (Thu Apr 27 2006 13:03:09 )
Very good Casey. I have never been so analytical as to catch all of these film making ploys. Thanks for the insight. I never would think to see all of the symbolic gestures, and it's great that someone else is so in tuned, and can benefit those of us who just don't have that ability.
by - sfericsf (Thu Apr 27 2006 13:32:51 )
Wow. I always saw the train in the beginning, and the train tracks during the murder scene, but I never even thought to link them together.
Thanks Casey!
by - catglith (Thu Apr 27 2006 13:46:48 )
UPDATED Thu Apr 27 2006 13:47:13
This is sort of linked; a few people have commented on the fact that Jack and Ennis' relationship was like a train crash waiting to happen, and maybe the rail tracks in the 'murder scene' are symbolic of how it went off the rails to the extent that Jack became reckless, and so was murdered in his attempts to find solace somewhere i.e some form of relationship with another man in Childress, probably Randall??
(I should probably add that i'm in the 'ambiguous death' camp too, and i don't really believe Jack 'quit' Ennis either and moved on with Randall).
by - smj274 (Thu Apr 27 2006 14:00:08 )
their love is never ending...look at the shirts my friend
oh and 'jack, i swear'.
oh and the open window...oh, i love symbols!
by - hsuvera (Thu Apr 27 2006 15:43:30 )
{{jack205, MattDupuy:
No one else seems to have mentioned something that struck me on recently viewing the film - I must confess - with the 1/8 speed slo-mo engaged on the nightmarishly imagined scene in Ennis's mind of Jack being the victim of a hate-crime beating.
[Yes, I'm in the camp which sees the way Jack died as completely ambiguous as far as Ang Lee AND Annie Proulx are concerned - the real tragedy in the book/film is the inescapable self-hatred and homophobia of Ennis himself.]
Balancing the opening of the film in which we see train tracks [and a train] traversing the screen frame diagonally, from foreground left to background centre, as Jack 'enters' the film in his wheezing truck is the only other set of train tracks which are visible in the film. And these occur in the 'scene' of 'Jack's murder', the action of which, in the establishing shot, is enclosed by a fence on the left and a set of train tracks traversing the frame symmetrically with the opening shot - ie. extending from background-centre down to foreground right.
Given it is absolutely the last time we catch sight of Jack AND given Ang Lee's astounding attention to detail throughout the film - especially with regard to both narrative and visual balance and symmetry - I don't doubt for an instant that Lee has thought the structure of the film out to this Nth degree. IE, that the entrance and 'exit' of Jack's character is linked, associated, balanced, and 'enclosed' within the visual element of the train tracks.
That's my thought - 'for what it's worth' - for the present. I'm sure some of the regulars, if they see this, will want to get into a discussion regarding it. And it's yet one more symmetry which naun, others, and myself can add to our growing list of symmetries and correspondences throughout the film. }}
I can't agree more of above concept.
One of the most touching scene upon second viewing the film was the truck drove in the darkness, when it stopped, stepped down a tall, sling young man - Ennis,who is stepping into the tragic love of his own. Contract to the driving home in the darkness after Ennis left Jack's parents. These two scenes were so enchanted and lost.
by - jack205 (Fri Apr 28 2006 10:37:12 )
Thanks everyone! There is just too much symbolism to get my head around!!
by - doelcm (Fri Apr 28 2006 10:47:54 )
There is just too much symbolism to get my head around!!
Too much for me to buy into. It seems the train is not the symbol. Just the tracks. The train meant nothing, or if it did, it meant Koyaanisqatsi, since there is no train at the end to even things up.
This whole movie was about Koyaanisqatsi. The timeline of this film ends around the time of the release of that other movie. And both films featured images of the full moon. That can't be a coincidence, can it?
by - lauragigs (Fri Apr 28 2006 11:28:06 )
There's another scene that parallels Ennis' vision of Jack's demise: the scene in which young Ennis is led to Earl's body. In it, there is a rough barbed-wire fence going along the right side of the screen. In the tire-iron scene, a similar fence goes along the left side.
(When I first saw the film it immediately struck me, because so much had been made of the fence to which Matthew Shepard was tied . . . it was featured very prominently in commemorative art work, etc.)
by - jack205 (Sun Apr 30 2006 08:09:05 )
Hi, thanks doelcm, what is Koyaanisqatsi?
by - jack205 (Mon May 1 2006 05:50:40 )
bump
I want to know
by - Rontrigger (Tue May 2 2006 16:44:36 )
Jack205, this is from Leonard Maltin's 2002 Movie & Video Guide:
KOYAANISQATSI (1983) C-87 m. **** D: Godfrey Reggio.
Spellbinding, senses-staggering nonnarrative film soars across the United States in search of vistas both natural and man-made. Much of the photography is slow-motion or time-lapse (the title is Hopi Indian for "life out of balance"), all of it set to a mesmerizing score by Philip Glass. So rich in beauty and detail that with each viewing it becomes a new and different film. Should be seen in a theatre for maximum impact. Followed by POWAQQATSI.
Well, I think I need to see this myself!
by - jack205 (Sun May 7 2006 01:26:06 )
So do I!!
