REPOST (many thanks to "TDE" for saving this thread
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Alma's Thanksgiving Spectacular --- by scott89119
by - scott89119 (Wed Apr 5 2006 11:45:10 )
I'm still torn about Alma's big scene after dinner washing dishes with Ennis. She brings up how he's not seeing anyone then mentions Jack. In a way it seemed to me like she was encouraging him to see Jack again. She's probably had enough time to come to terms with it, and they weren't married anymore so it probably wasn't as big a deal to her. Then she shifts and begins to get upset, probably because she started thinking about how he decieved her for years. Alma to me didn't seem disgusted with Ennis being gay but rather about his infidelity. Did anyone else think Alma was encouraging Ennis to get in touch with Jack again at the beginning of that scene?
by - lauragigs (Wed Apr 5 2006 11:53:17 )
Alma had been holding back for years and years on confronting Ennis about Jack. IMO, she brought up the subject so she could finally vent her frustrations and feelings of betrayal.
by - BannerHill (Wed Apr 5 2006 11:57:52 )
At the table you could see her getting angry when Ennis told the girls about his rodeo days.
Remember?
I think she was working herself up.
by - scott89119 (Wed Apr 5 2006 12:06:28 )
Good point. It was beautifully acted.
by - Rontrigger (Wed Apr 5 2006 12:54:13 )
The only thing I'm sure of after the "Jack Nasty" reference was that Alma was NOT encouraging Ennis to be with Jack.
I always have been puzzled by something, though: what was the point of everything that Alma said she'd done before that fishing trip--writing the note, tying it to the end of the line, then looking for it again after Ennis's return? For God's sake, she'd seen them kissing each other passionately the day Jack first visited! What more proof did she need that they were more than just good friends?
In short--why, at her Thanksgiving spectacular or at ANY time in the previous 10 years, did Alma not ever say, "Ennis, I saw you KISS him!"?
by - josh773 (Wed Apr 5 2006 13:18:46 )
IMO -- At dinner, Ennis says that he didn't have wings, which is a reference to fairies. He then looks uncomfortably at Alma who avoids his eyes.
In the kitchen, Alma says that Ennis should get re-married and Ennis says, "Well, once burned," implying that the divorce was Alma's fault. I think that Alma's outburst was more along the lines of "don't you dare blame me for the breakdown of our marriage." She then implies that Ennis and Jack's relationship was only sex. This sends Ennis over the top.
Interestingly, I never saw any evidence that she related her knowledge to anyone else. So, she was in someway protective of Ennis.
by - silencingseptember (Wed Apr 5 2006 13:23:15 )
"lookin all perky.."
by - anml-lvr (Wed Apr 5 2006 13:26:19 )
I think you are right BannerHill.
I believe she was both disgusted by Ennis's attraction for Jack and the fact he cheated on her for so many years.
She did say, "Jack Nasty", as if it was Jack who was to blame.
by - gtaylor0 (Wed Apr 19 2006 17:44:23 )
And yet she wants to get to know this guy better - remember her asking Ennis about Jack coming in for coffee, before a later trip to Brokeback. Not a bad gal, really.
by - jshane2002 (Wed Apr 19 2006 18:14:18 )
About protecting the girls :
Alma would not want the "nasty" truth to get around for her own and for her daughter's sakes. But the girls must have asked questions about Jack all those years and Alma must answered them saying Jack was no good in some vague way. I think Alma Jr. in particular must have wondered. Her mom might have been vague about Jack or said he was a drinker or bad seed or something along those lines.
It's kind of interesting that Alma Jr. really seemed to want to live with her dad - like she wanted to look out for him. Ennis was getting mixed up with Cassie and her dad also got into a pretty bad fight after the Thanksgiving dinner.
About confronting Ennis directly :
When she says Jack "nasty" she's implying she knows Ennis' nasty secret that she can't even confront Ennis about directly but has to put him on the spot with vaguely incriminating evidence that she has come to know all those things. The real truth is too nasty for the light of day - it just doesn't get spoken about -even alluding to it brings up incredible reactions in both Alma and Ennis - they are both going nuts and it almost gets much worse before Ennis has the sense to get out of the house.
It was cathartic for Alma just to say as much as she did. It was clear Ennis understood what Alma was accusing him of even if she didn't come out and say it.
by - drewla (Wed Apr 19 2006 23:23:47 )
UPDATED Wed Apr 19 2006 23:35:42
I think when Ennis' daughter asks about his rodeo days, it reminds Alma of Jack and upsets her (this is registered in her akward facial expression). Remember, one of the few things Alma knows about Jack is that he was into rodeo (something Ennis told her when he got the first postcard). Later at the sink they are alone, Jack is still on Alma's mind and brings it up to Ennis. So I don't think she brought it up out of the blue. It was partly provoked from the discussion earlier.
Great title for your thread btw.
by - jshane2002 (Wed Apr 19 2006 23:35:36 )
UPDATED Wed Apr 19 2006 23:46:00
Poor Alma, she had it so rough, in fact many times it's the scenes with Alma when she discovers Jack and Ennis kissing that I find hardest to watch. She was so lonely plus, unknown to Ennis or Jack, she knew what the lie about fishing was and was painfully aware of the deception Ennis was pulling on her.
Ennis can't wait to get out the door to go to the motel with Jack and he doesn't realize that his wife understands now why he waited by the window for Jack and those lies about how he might not get back until late because when he and Jack get to drinking and talking and all. Ennis isn't even a big talker.
Even Jack's last name Twist is like a knife in Alam's heart that get twisted inside her.
by - terryhall2 (Fri May 12 2006 10:12:55 )
Alma had plenty of time to bring this up about Jack. I think she was just digging at Ennis..seeing how the girls loved their daddy and wanted to hear his stories 'narked' her (as we say in England) so she chose something that has been bothering her all these years to hit him with. She wasn't really interested in hearing any explanation he might have had either. She could have said " I saw what you and JACK were doing when you met."..instead she wanted to see if she was mistaken by setting up a device (the note on the rod)
Really, that's just as spiteful a way of doing things as Ennis' actions appear to her. The games we play with each other, ho-hum!
by - lauragigs (Fri May 12 2006 10:25:23 )
The movie had me rooting for Ennis and all, but after all the devastation Alma had been through, I think she deserved to vent, finally.
by - tcxl (Fri May 12 2006 11:03:47 )
Alma is one character in the film that I find myself 100% sympathetic towards. As much as I empathize with Jack and Ennis' struggle with being gay in 1960's Wyoming (and trust me when I say that I do), Alma ended up being the unwitting victim in all of this. That poor girl just never had a chance. And to her credit, she kept silent about Jack for all those years. She could easily have made Ennis' life a living hell in that town, or worse... gotten him killed.
After watching the scene a number of times now, I do feel that it was Ennis who started the argument in the kitchen. I think that Alma was sincere when she said that she and the girls were worried about him and hoped he would marry again. I do believe that she trully loved him, even then. His comeback with "once burned" was kinda cruel. I think that was what pushed her over the edge and she just had to vent at that point. I know I would.
As always, my posts express only my own interpretation of the film, so it's neither right nor wrong.
