REPOST (many thanks to "TDE" for saving this thread an making it available again)
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Ennis was so DEPRESSING!!! --- by BryeHernandez
by - BryeHernandez (Thu Jul 20 2006 20:52:13 )
Despite having to struggle with his homosexuality, he had all kinds of other issues that the other characters didn't have. His life was always miserable and he was always poor and, unlike Jack and Alma who married other people and were less poverty-stricken (though Jack was living a lie and probably miserable, he still had a job and money was somewhat happier than he had been before), Ennis was forever destitute. And he was alwyas getting mad and beating people up. Wow. I'd hate to be him. I almost cried watching him.
Yes, I know this post was sort of a pointless, but it's an observation.
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Thu Jul 20 2006 22:06:04 )
Thats why Ennis is my favorite,we see so much of him, him and his sorrows. He is like everyother person on Earth, destined to lose everything in the end. Jack had a depressing story too. He was struggling with his homosexuality too, he had a slow boy, a man that he loved deeply that wouldn't satisfy his most important needs, a a$$hole father-in-law, and of course, he dies in the end. So sad, both of these guy's stories
by - Santinos_Bridesmade (Thu Jul 20 2006 22:33:50 )
UPDATED Thu Jul 20 2006 22:36:12
Neither one of them can ever catch a break. I can't decide who was the more tragic character. Both of them put themselves through loveless marriages and years of deprivation. Yes, it's Jack who dies without ever receiving the love he deserved, but it's Ennis who has to go on and live with his regret at having never taken that chance with Jack. Until he dies there's always going to be that void in his life that he can never fill. The reason he always beat up on people because he felt as if the world were out to get him and wanted to nip it in the bud. He did it out of fear. Jack could never get through to him while he was alive - it look a major loss to get Ennis to re-examine and improve on himself, which is evident in his conversation with his daughter at the end. So many layers of emotions within those two characters within 2 hours, 15 minutes, more than enough time to experience full soul catharsis and I'm rambling now and I'll stop here. You get it. Whew. Once I start I can never stop.
by - ailuro (Thu Jul 20 2006 22:44:06 )
Depressing, yep.
Another reason why BbM is a breath of fresh air, character-wise.
In film after film, we see characters resolve lifelong emotional issues in just 2 hours. Not so with our Ennis. It will take him a bit longer then that.
by - kthstewart (Thu Jul 20 2006 23:34:53 )
They say that most people live lives of quiet desperation. Ennis and Jack just lived their lives a little more desperately than most people. Society wants everyone to conform to the rules which is always set in stone. The mores that they go by was handed down by the prior generation and nearly always involves religion, greed, and tradition. Anyone who breaks the rules will be damned by society.
by - littlewing1957 (Fri Jul 21 2006 08:37:42 )
I think Ennis was clinically depressed, which could explain his lack of ambition (that'll do attitude) his anger, even low sex drive.
by - lauragigs (Fri Jul 21 2006 09:02:55 )
Brye, read the 1st post of this thread if you haven't already:
Story's Authenticity from Maelakest
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/38148755 Really interesting stuff on Ennis' character.
by - stephen-mellor (Fri Jul 21 2006 10:44:08 )
Hmmm. Ennis was a sad, depressed, abused, person.
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Fri Jul 21 2006 11:08:08 )
I love Ennis, i think he had the more sorrow-filled life, he was not a bad person. He loved his kids, he loved his man, but he couldn't commit himself to Alma (because he wasn't attracted to her) or Jack (because of his fear) that doesn't make him a bad person. He doesn't go around making fun of people, he doesn't talk much, he is a sleeping giant that was sterred when he met JACK!
by - Santinos_Bridesmade (Fri Jul 21 2006 11:23:44 )
There is some good insight there, lauragigs. I remember on the DVD special features, the filmmakers explained how both Jack and Ennis were both products of their environment. Cowboys are expected to be hard-core people with no emotional vulnerablity. Until now, that's how cinema portrayed them. Yet anothe reason why BBM is a landmark film.
Ennis lived his life being ignored/cast aside and unloved, so when he found love with Jack, he didn't know what to do. No one treated him right, so he didn't know how to treat Jack, Alma, or Cassie right. He hurts the ones he loves most because he doesn't know how not to hurt them. I feel that he's at his prime when he's with his daughters - he seems to express himself best around them, even more so than with Jack. Jack lived a similar life but dealt with it differently - while Jack strived for happiness, Ennis shied away from it, feeling that he didn't deserve it, that it was too delicate a thing for him to possess.
by - toycoon (Fri Jul 21 2006 19:26:29 )
It bears another look.
by - BryeHernandez (Fri Jul 21 2006 23:02:21 )
Thanks, guys,for all your replies!
Can't exactly understand the little red riding hood thing, but sure.
I just finished Reservoir Dogs
by - honeybellashley (Fri Jul 21 2006 23:39:45 )
It made me sad i wanted him to be happy!!!
The whole movie i was saying someone love him he's so lonely
he just doesnt know how to express his feelings and he appears to be very shy.
by - toycoon (Sat Jul 22 2006 08:00:49 )
Ennis is most at ease with his children and animals. Jack seeks approval from those around him and companionship from a man to complete his life.
by - lauragigs (Sat Jul 22 2006 08:21:48 )
You summed it up perfectly, Toycoon.
by - meanderingtrevor (Sat Jul 22 2006 09:03:58 )
Ennis was emotionally stunted because of society. He wanted to be with Jack and couldn't make a relationship with a woman work. After all the debate of his being gay or bi I am coming to the conclusion he was gay but couldn't come to terms with it.
by - Santinos_Bridesmade (Sat Jul 22 2006 20:53:19 )
It's more likely that he had social anxiety disorder (I have it myself) than clinical depression. He has plenty of symptoms - the mumbling, talking with his head down, intense fear of scrutinization, ocassional vocal blockage (I have plenty of those), ocassional shaky voice, angry outbursts, etc. That's a prime reason why he's at ease out in the vast openess of Brokeback with no one but Jack at his side. This psychoanalysis of his character just adds to my awe of Heath's sheer brilliance. Wow.
by - BryeHernandez (Sun Jul 23 2006 00:28:02 )
Probably
by - kthstewart (Sun Jul 23 2006 02:19:05 )
I too think Ennis was gay but just as you said he couldn't come to terms with the fact that he was gay. Even the worst boogyman that Ennis'father could conjure up for him as a nine year old couldn't change his true nature but did scar him for life and made him paranoid and reclusive.
by - merlinsam13 (Sun Jul 23 2006 16:37:27 )
My thoughts on first seeing this movie (and they haven't really substantially changed) is that Ennis has the personality he has because of all of the hurt in his life - losing his parents, essentially losing his brother and sister when they got married - and I think that as a gay man, he was very affected as a child by his dad taking him to see the gay cowboy in their town who had been killed. I think that would have convinced any 9-year-old that there is nothing ok with being gay. How do you really get over something like that?
I think that Jack, who hadn't suffered the same sort of loss that Ennis had, was one of those lucky people who was always able to maintain his faith in love and in the basic decency of humanity, as well as a very clear feeling that there is nothing wrong with being gay.
That being said, the heartbreak in this movie is what makes it one of the most relateable movies to come out of Hollywood in years. I think this is my favorite movie ever...
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Sun Jul 23 2006 16:48:14 )
Ennis is gay, I'm still alittle skeptical about his sexuality before he met Jack, though.
by - BryeHernandez (Sun Jul 23 2006 20:22:33 )
Before? Um...
by - blu_eyes_88 (Sun Jul 23 2006 20:36:10 )
"Ennis is gay, I'm still a little skeptical about his sexuality before he met Jack, though."
What? If Ennis is gay, then before he met Jack, Ennis is gay.
by - Santinos_Bridesmade (Sun Jul 23 2006 22:16:32 )
What? If Ennis is gay, then before he met Jack, Ennis is gay.
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's really not that difficult of a concept....
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Mon Jul 24 2006 11:17:04 )
I have mixed feelings about him, i believe someone could turn gay. I'm not saying you have to be born gay to be gay, this world of ours is a place of change, i think Ennis was gay after he fell in love with Jack, and beforehand I'm not sure about it. He was a virgin so who knows if he found other men attractive, I think its possible to be one way than end up another.
by - BryeHernandez (Mon Jul 24 2006 11:55:12 )
<i think Ennis was gay after he fell in love with Jack>
That doesn't make any sense. How could he have fallen in love with a man if he wasn't gay?
by - blu_eyes_88 (Mon Jul 24 2006 12:29:52 )
Even if he was a virgin, I believe you are born gay. I don't think it just happens later in life. Maybe you discover it later after many mishaps and failed relationships, but I think it is with you from the beginning.
by - vaporize (Mon Jul 24 2006 13:15:34 )
I completely agree. If heterosexuals are born heterosexual, I don't see what is so hard to grasp about homsosexuals being born homosexual.
by - BryeHernandez (Mon Jul 24 2006 13:22:57 )
Some people are born bi and assume they're just gay or straight, then realize later that they're bi. However, I don't think this was the case with Ennis. I think he was just gay.
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Mon Jul 24 2006 13:30:24 )
I think thats what I meant. That he wasn't gay,because Ennis to himself didn't/doesn't consider himself gay, but when he meets Jack he seems to open it up a bit, and rrecognize things about him that he didn't know beforehand (though he still does kinda ignore that factor of his sexuality)
by - daphne7661 (Mon Jul 24 2006 13:44:03 )
For what it's worth..., .
Ennis is gay. He has always been gay. Based upon his childhood memory of what his Dad forced him to see, Ennis buried all that he felt and all that he had the capacity to feel, way deep down inside, probably never to see the light of day, until Jack is so beautifully and refreshingly thrust into his life. I, for one, am happy in this story in that, even though Ennis never managed to face or accept his homosexuality, even with Jack in his life, in the end, at least, he realized, perhaps, that he had been given a great gift - the gift of true and deep love of and with another person.
I don't believe Ennis "turned gay". One doesn't "turn" gay.
It's really no wonder Ennis was depressed from all this inner conflict... So sad.
by - Santinos_Bridesmade (Mon Jul 24 2006 14:21:12 )
That's lovely, Daphne. Very well-said. How sad that it took losing Jack to get him to appreciate Jack.....every time I watch it, I wish for a different ending, that he reaches this revelation sooner.....but that's not to be. What it is, what could have been.....soooo sad. It's....just....so.....tragic.
by - littlewing1957 (Mon Jul 24 2006 16:01:16 )
Social anxiety disorder? This makes a lot of sense, especially in light of how he was raised, the turmoil of his formative years.
You're right, Heath gave the performance of the decade. He is a startingly gifted actor!
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Mon Jul 24 2006 16:22:45 )
The ending is too sad and perfect, i wouldn't change it. When I get depressed about it, i just read the awesome fanfictions on fanfiction.net some are really well written
by - littlewing1957 (Mon Jul 24 2006 16:35:04 )
<<When I get depressed about it, i just read the awesome fanfictions on fanfiction.net some are really well written>>
So do I! It really helps to get caught up in a steamy AU piece where Jack lives and the boys are at least trying to build a life together!
by - dragonstoneswrestling (Mon Jul 24 2006 19:01:40 )
Yeah some of those are good, i prefer the ones that are unique, but not too ridiculous. "The Words would not come" is a very good one about a horrific accident that befalls on Ennis, he gets drunk drives to Jack's and is allowed to stay in his guest room, much to the dismay of Laureen and LD. Ennis doesn't talk more than 5 sentences in the story, its good writing though, nice sex scenes.LOL Or the Nightfall one where Ennis and Jack are Germans in Berlin, 1933. So far its really hot. Jack's a actor, Ennis's a painter. So hott!!!
