Reassurance or Balance? -- by littlewing1957

[TOoP/Bruce]

REPOST
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Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 15:43:52 )   

Okay, bear with me here, but can you stand another one of my questions? I noticed after Ennis punches Jack (after the lasso incident) he puts a hand on Jack's back (or side) before he straightens up and moves away from him. I think Ennis touches Jack this way to reassure him, rather than get his balance. I can imagine Ennis' thinking, "sorry bud, I really shouldn't have hit you like that. Hope I didn't hurt you any." Of course, Ennis would not say these things to Jack, but we have seen Ennis use touch to communicate. Any one know what I mean? Any one else notice Ennis touching Jack in this way after he hit him?

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - the_protector 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 15:46:41 )   

Totally noticed!
Having been in a situation similiar to this as a kid, I do see it as a gesture of reassurance and apology.

If you feel embarrassed, I'll be your pride.
If you need direction, I'll be your guide.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 15:57:59 )   

UPDATED Fri May 12 2006 15:58:25
Yes, this hits me every time I see it. Ennis can't very well tell Jack he is sorry, but he can reassure him with a touch.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - the_protector 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:02:03 )   

But I really dislike the scene afterwards when Jack spits in Ennis' path. It's such a disgusting gesture, even though I understand that Jack is angry and hurt...

If you feel embarrassed, I'll be your pride.
If you need direction, I'll be your guide.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:06:36 )   

UPDATED Fri May 12 2006 16:09:59
You think his spitting is in response to Ennis' punch? I never thought of that. I just thought he had something in his lungs that he wanted to get rid of. People spit in this movie all the time, and I just thought it was because most of them are smokers. Interesting!

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - Mystical_lonewolf 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:13:40 )   
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i would agree. After all, they're smokers. And i can tell jack was hurt indeed, but he wouldn't spit at Ennis' path for that reason. I would be hurt more likely if my soul mate strikes me. I would wonder why. However soulmates should always reassure each other that everything is alright.



It's jenova's friggin head!
S.I.E.F and D.I.D.F!

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:21:08 )   

Yes, Jack didn't seem angry that Ennis hit him. He understood (at least I think he did) that it was done in the heat of the moment, and somehow, I think Jack realized how disappointed Ennis was that they were being cut out of a month's pay. Jack knew that Ennis didn't really mean to hurt him.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - the_protector 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:21:42 )   

UPDATED Fri May 12 2006 16:22:59
Yeh when he first spits, I was just like "Oh, he spat...whatever."
THEN the camera pans and lingers on Ennis who stops and stares at the area Jack spat at.

I just can't see that scene not having a deeper meaning.

And as far as spitting in the movie. Have you noticed that most of the time, the spitting is done as an accent to the mood of the scene?

--when they leave Aguirre's trailer, Jack spits to show is frustration with Aguirre's 'rules'

--Ennis spits after punching Jack.

--Ennis spits when after the argument with Alma.

--Ennis spits after the post-divorce rejection.

--Ennis spits after the "What I don't know..." line.

--Jack's Father spitting.


If you feel embarrassed, I'll be your pride.
If you need direction, I'll be your guide.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:28:06 )   

<<THEN the camera pans and lingers on Ennis who stops and stares at the area Jack spat at.>>

I'll have to check this out the next time I watch the movie. I never noticed this.

You are right, of course, about the other spitting incidents. I just never associated them with anger, and I don't know why not. Takes some of us older people longer, LOL!


Reassurance or Balance?   
by - prettyboy_c 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:36:37 )   
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dang, I didn't know there was so much spittin going on in this movie...maybe I subconsciously avoid it as I hate seeing people spit

(<>..<>)

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:39:37 )   
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I know, and no one in the movie made a big deal out of it - like spitting was the most natural thing in the world, not hateful or disgusting.
Reassurance or Balance?   
by - Mystical_lonewolf 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 16:44:17 )   

i see people spit quite a lot everywhere i go. when i work and so forth. kinda think that it was more rude. i don't know why i think that, but i think it was rude to spit.



It's jenova's friggin head!
S.I.E.F and D.I.D.F!

[TOoP/Bruce]

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - clancypants 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 20:31:36 )   

I understand the point you're getting at by saying Ennis' touching of Jack immediately after the fight was more of a "Sorry, bud, I had to do it..." than a balance maneuver; but, I’ve re-watched the scene several times now in real time and on slo-mo and I have to disagree. It definitely looks to me like a balance and get up maneuver.

On the spitting, protector is correct. All of the spitting in the movie happens as a sort of exclamation point to what has just happened or been said.

littlewing1957 --

You said: "I think Jack realized how disappointed Ennis was that they were being cut out of a month's pay."

I have to disagree with this. Ennis used the month's pay thing as a cover to hide his true feelings. (As he often does in the film.) He's really upset that his idyllic time on the mountain with Jack, being open and loving, free, unencumbered by a wife and kids, is coming to an end. But it's not just coming to its natural end. This ending was dumped on the boys by Aguirre telling them to being the sheep down early. Ennis thought he had more time on the mountain with Jack and he was in no frame of mind to contemplate the end of this time. Suddenly the end is thrust upon both of them. Ennis wasn’t ready for this. And he saw Jack dutifully taking down the tent and packing the camp. Ennis felt that Jack didn’t care. What Ennis didn’t realize is that Jack was nonchalant about leaving the mountain because he probably felt the relationship was going to continue. I think that after the two months of carefree living the boys enjoyed on the mountain, Jack was expecting that the relationship would not end... that Ennis would not go off and get married...

When the fight happened, it was Ennis reacting emotionally to a situation he could not understand and did not accept. He felt Jack was o.k. with the end, so he lashed out at Jack -- for leaving him -- just like in the final lake scene.

Jack, on the other hand, was totally surprised by the fight -- when it first started, Jack was giggling, as if this was just another playful tumble. The fight confused Jack a lot and suddenly Jack didn’t know how their relationship would turn out after they left the mountain. Jack thought Ennis was mad at Jack. Thus, the spit. Thus, the very awkward parting at the parking lot. Neither of them said anything about their feelings about what they had just spent several months going through together, because each was afraid of what the other might say.

I dunno.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - the_protector 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 21:54:51 )   

"Neither of them said anything about their feelings ...because each was afraid of what the other might say. "

So true. I know firsthand how frustrating that situation is...


If you feel embarrassed, I'll be your pride.
If you need direction, I'll be your guide.

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - Mystical_lonewolf 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 22:18:48 )   

that is undeniable the best post there. anyone who wishes to know something like this must read this post. I couldn't agree more with that.

It's jenova's friggin head!
S.I.E.F and D.I.D.F!

Reassurance or Balance?   
by - littlewing1957 2 days ago (Fri May 12 2006 22:20:16 )   

You know, I always felt that Ennis was upset about leaving Jack, but I also feel that he was more worried about money. However, I like your interpretation! It describes a more vulnerable, loving side to Ennis that I never noticed before!