This is a REPOST. Clancy co-opts the title of an offensive troll post and post his own ideas.
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Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by ClancyPantsDelMar (Tue Nov 7 2006 17:51:16 )
UPDATED Wed Nov 8 2006 01:00:32
Sometimes I wonder about fearful Ennis greeting Jake with such physical enthusiasm ignoring the real risk of his curious wife looking through a window and catching him at it. It certainly demonstrates the power of love. A Force of Nature. But I needn’t have said this as anyone with a heart and an understanding of what love is would certainly understand. "Contrived REUNION phony baloney?" I think not.
As I look back over my 70-odd years, I am suffused with a sense of pleasure because I know I have loved and been loved. I know that there was once a pretty little girl who stole my heart and made me do uncharacteristically impulsive and romantic things. Love expresses itself in many ways -- uncharacteristically impulsive and romantic actions, are but a few.
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by shortfic (Tue Nov 7 2006 18:14:00 )
Another fine post.
One thing: in the movie, it's clear that they didn't know Alma saw them kissing. But in the story that scene seems more ambiguous; it describes Alma letting the door close after she sees them "and still" they kiss; and when Ennis comes inside, he says he hasn't seen Jack in four years "as if it were a reason."
What do you think? In the story, does Ennis know that Alma saw them?
"Say thank you, Gilbert. Say thank you."
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by jackie-77 (Tue Nov 7 2006 18:16:19 )
Hi, ClancyPants. Now that the subject has been raised in a non-troll thread, this seems like a good spot to repost most of what I wrote in a thread I'm not sorry was deleted, but was disappointed my post had to come down with it.
With minor edits, partly since I'm replying to someone civilized this time, partly to refine details after additional viewings, here goes...
It demonstrates how spellbound Ennis is. He was so caught up in his soulmate, he didn't even notice the sound of the screen door squeaking open and then closed or the sound of the apartment door closing.
Why would he kiss Jack in the stairwell? Because even as fearful as he is, he was lucky to contain himself long enough not to kiss him in the yard.
Why would he go to a motel with him? Because even as fearful as he is, he was barely able to restrain himself long enough to get to the motel.
He did look around nervously before and after the kiss, he did try to behave with propriety in the conscious presence of his wife, but he was knocked completely off his guard despite knowing all day that Jack was on his way there. (Not to mention, he and Jack knocked each other nearly off their feet slamming each other into the wall with their kiss.)
He was the most outside himself he had been in four years, or should I say, beside himself with joy. His guard was down, and stayed down until he put his hat back on at the campfire to tell Jack "no way" about ranching together.
Granted, his all-consuming need of Jack gave Alma a hurtful shock. Granted, his all-consuming exuberance while packing for the "fishing" trip revealed him again and hurt her some more. (I guess what-all got consumed right then was Alma's heart.) Granted, he ought to have noticed that she was obviously upset while he was packing and obviously upset when he brought Jack in for introductions. (Jack had no way to know then that she wasn't just incredibly shy with new people or as excruciatingly taciturn as her husband.)
Ennis was delirious with joy and love, oblivious to everything except Jack.
Yeah, he screws up on his intent of not hurting Alma, Jack, or himself. Not at all contrived. Very human. Very real and true.
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by ClancyPantsDelMar (Tue Nov 7 2006 19:23:04 )
Hi shortfic –
“What do you think? In the story, does Ennis know that Alma saw them?”
I think he does. After the kissin’, it says: “The door opened again a few inches and Alma stood in the narrow light. What could he say? “Alma, this is Jack Twist. Jack, my wife, Alma.” His chest was heaving. He could smell Jack—the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat, and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain. “Alma,” he said, “Jack and me ain’t seen each other in four years.” As if it were a reason. He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her.”
This makes it sound to me as if he knew they were seen. Especially the “if it were a reason” part. It seems as if he’s trying to reason for Alma why they were just kissing.
But, his notice of the dim light could be taken as a sign that he didn’t know or wasn't sure.
But, he then didn’t turn from her.
So… who knows? But, I, personally, think he knew that he’d been seen.
Hi jackie-77 –
“With minor edits, partly since I'm replying to someone civilized this time, partly to refine details after additional viewings, here goes...”
And isn’t this the way it should always be? Why some just don’t get it, I’ll never know. “They were respectful of each other’s opinions…”
“It demonstrates how spellbound Ennis is. He was so caught up in his soulmate, he didn't even notice the sound of the screen door squeaking open and then closed or the sound of the apartment door closing.”
Absolutely!
“Why would he kiss Jack in the stairwell? Because even as fearful as he is, he was lucky to contain himself long enough not to kiss him in the yard.”
Very good point!
“Why would he go to a motel with him? Because even as fearful as he is, he was barely able to restrain himself long enough to get to the motel.”
Another very good point!
“He was the most outside himself he had been in four years…”
In a sense, he was at his most true self here. He was just too afraid of it to let it continue.
“Granted, his all-consuming need of Jack gave Alma a hurtful shock. Granted, his all-consuming exuberance while packing for the "fishing" trip revealed him again and hurt her some more. (I guess what-all got consumed right then was Alma's heart.) Granted, he ought to have noticed that she was obviously upset while he was packing and obviously upset when he brought Jack in for introductions. (Jack had no way to know then that she wasn't just incredibly shy with new people or as excruciatingly taciturn as her husband.)”
All very true. And unfortunately, this is just simply the way it is in life too often. In real life, instead of attacking the person, I’d rather try to understand and then help heal.
“Yeah, he screws up on his intent of not hurting Alma, Jack, or himself. Not at all contrived. Very human. Very real and true.”
Exactly! The film NEVER says Ennis was right for how he acted. It just shows us HOW he acted. Now, it’s up to us to decide how to react -- with hatred and venom or compassion and conciliation.
Re: Reunion
by jackie-77 (Tue Nov 7 2006 20:55:50 )
"'He was the most outside himself he had been in four years…'
In a sense, he was at his most true self here."
Exactly. I meant, temporarily outside his inhibitions. He couldn't pull down that wall, but seeing Jack after four years of longing yanked him outside it for a sweet moment. That exuberant, sweet, tender, playful, adoring boy is, I agree, his most true self, the self that started to emerge before they suddenly had to leave the mountain.
The pain on his face when he snaps back to "reality" is so painful to watch. If Alma had also witnessed his anguished struggle to make himself push Jack away and to pry himself away from Jack, I suppose really it would have made her sense of rejection worse, but if by some miracle she had seen the element of loyalty to her and their girls, what then?
Re: Reunion
by stephen-mellor (Tue Nov 7 2006 21:11:50 )
Jackie wrote nicely about Ennis as he became before he left the mountain, and the Ennis who loves his daughters.
As this thread started through some troll trying to stir up hatred (not CPDM, I hasten to add, but the VentilatingOne), it reminded me of some of the weirder ones we've seen.
My fave was a "review" written by a "christian" soon after the film came out who claimed that Ennis "mocked Jesus in front of his wife and children!" presumably in response to the Saturday night Ennis preferred to sit in front of the TV. How do these people think this stuff up?
A common one is the canard that Ennis "ruined his children's lives." In what way exactly? He loved them, it's obvious. He never hurt them (or Alma), though he like many people did lose his temper, shout, swear, and once even threaten to hurt Alma physically. *She* divorced him, not the other way around, and while I think we can argue she certainly had cause, it was her decision to inflict any pain on her daughters resulting from the divorce, not his.
No, as usual, the _real_ reason is that these trolls are, truly, homo-haters, and they look for any excuse--including fabrication of one--to justify their hatred.
Re: Reunion
by Shasta254 (Wed Nov 8 2006 03:30:59 )
You know--I love that scene. It creates in me a longing. Wouldn't we all LOVE to be greeted so enthusiastically by a lover? How thrilling. During my marriage I was usually greeted with a hug when I returned from somewhere, but never anything like the way Ennis greeted Jack. Even when Jack came up post-divorce, the hug seemed to be very heartfelt. If the girls had not been there, I think it would have been the 4th of July. Anyway, it was ALMOST worth being away from each other for 4 years to get a reception like that!! And if you do have that---be thankful for it. You are among the fortunate few.
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by jackie-77 (Wed Nov 22 2006 15:26:22 )
UPDATED Wed Nov 22 2006 15:27:55
As I said when I bumped the companion to this thread (paraphrased):
bump even though I don't like the thread title (although I do like the idea of co-opting the trolls' thread title)
maybe in a couple weeks someone should repost this discussion with a new title and we should let this thead fall off the board?
or can an OP alter the thread title after the fact?? "naturalistic REUNION realness and believability" or something?
Thanks, ClancyPants and stephen-mellor, for the compliments (and to everyone who's encouraged me on other threads these past couple weeks). Nov. 7 was only my 5th day coming to this board, and was only a week into my initiation into this life-altering world-shattering piece of art.
This is a wonderful "fannish" community, and one that I don't have to get a ride all over the San Francisco Bay Area to spend time with (which in the past couple of years has nearly removed me from that community) or muster plane fare back home to New York (which in the past couple of years has removed me utterly from that community).
Jackie
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by littlewing1957 (Wed Nov 22 2006 15:40:50 )
<<This is a wonderful "fannish" community, and one that I don't have to get a ride all over the San Francisco Bay Area to spend time with (which in the past couple of years has nearly removed me from that community) or muster plane fare back home to New York (which in the past couple of years has removed me utterly from that community).>>
Jackie, I believe We're neighbors. I live in Oakland.
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by jackie-77 (Wed Nov 22 2006 16:59:45 )
OMG, I'm in Hayward!!! (Across the street from my school, Cal State Identity Crisis. (For non-locals: "Cal State East Bay," or "the college formerly known as Cal State Hayward.")) And I visit San Leandro regularly. Howdy neighbor!
Jackie
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by BannerHill (Mon Nov 27 2006 13:26:59 )
<<Love expresses itself in many ways -- uncharacteristically impulsive and romantic actions, are but a few.>>
Nicely put!
Re: Contrived REUNION phony baloney
by Dancing_Bear (Wed Nov 29 2006 12:46:47 )
Oh this brought something to mind, when I go to my friend's house her dog leaps up excitedly to kiss me and lick my face, dogbutt waggling like crazy, panting and oblivious to any shouts of "Down!! Down!!" I remember remarking that people love dogs for this very reason, their uninhibited delight in seeing you. I think one of the reasons why people love this scene between Ennis and Jack is because it brings warm fuzzy feelings of experiencing that sort of ecstatic greeting, or wish they could experience it at some time in their life. Even better if it's your lover!
