Where did it come from? Gay trivia!

[Ray]

I was having a conversation with some "New Generation Queers" last night and they commented that the symbol of the Pink Triangle was in need of a "modernised rework"  It drove home the idea that gay culture and politics are not being handed on to the new generations. So this thread is for anyone to input their knowledge of gay traditions and histories.

• The Pink Triangle was the symbol Tattooed onto male homosexuals by the Nazis when in concentration camps
• The Rainbow flag originally had eight colours. In 1978 Gilbert Baker designed a flag with eight stripes: pink, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. According to Baker, those colors represented, respectively: sexuality, life, healing, sun, nature, art, harmony, and spirit. Baker soon approached San Francisco's Paramount Flag Company about mass producing and selling his "gay flag". Unfortunately, Baker had hand-dyed all the colors, and since the color "hot pink" was not commercially available, mass production of his eight-striped version became impossible. The flag was thus reduced to seven stripes.
  
  In November 1978, San Francisco's gay community was stunned when the city's first openly gay supervisor, Harvey Milk, was assassinated, Wishing to demonstrate the gay community's strength and solidarity in the aftermath of this tragedy, the 1979 Pride Parade Committee decided to use Baker's flag. The committee eliminated the indigo stripe so they could divide the colors evenly along the parade route - three colors on one side of the street and three on the other. Soon the six colors were incorporated into a six-striped version that became popularized and that, today, is recognized by the International Congress of Flag Makers.
  
• Friends of Dorothy became an secret catch phrase for gay men in response to the Wizard of Oz and the gay icon Judy Garland, (a bisexual woman), to identify 'fellows'.  The death of Judy in June 1969 led to the Stonewall Riots when mourners revolted against a police raid of a gay bar.
• Gay Safe venues would paint their interiors Grey & Lavender to secretly welcome homosexual customers.

Anyone wish to contribute?

[isabelle]

Great thread Ray. (Wasn't the pink triangle sewn on the inmates' clothes?)

FAGGOTS: In the inquisition of Europe, witches and gay people were burnt. They were required to gather the very "bundles of sticks" (the real meaning of this word) with which they would be burnt. This word comes from the French language, and came to mean "gay man", but we can see why it's an insult!

LESBIAN: This word originally referred to an inhabitant of an island in ancient Greece. The term has come to have its current meaning due to the ancient Greek lyric poet Sappho, who lived on the island; some of her poems concerned love between women.

[TJ]

Several years ago, a gay friend of mine told me about going to a Christian bookstore here in Tulsa, Oklahoma and he noticed that they were selling FAGGOTS, too.

The manufacturer had taken tiny sticks and bundled them together and took two faggot bundles and bound them so that they would make a cross.

My friend had been a pastor of a Salvation Army "Church," before he left the closet. 

Lots of people in places like Tulsa and else where just believe that the Salvation Army is just a faith-based community service organization. But, it is actually a  Christian church denomination. I find it interestingly odd that a church has to go begging for money to fund its activities.

Oh, since we are talking about gay trivia here . . . , several years ago, there was a company in the San Francisco area that had (heterosexual) "Christians" owning it. They used "rainbow" in the name of the company and had a rainbow as a symbol in its company logo. Some smart-alecky "Christians" told them that they should change their name and use something besides a rainbow because a rainbow was a homosexual icon.

That was funny because according to the Bible, the God in whom the Christians believe created the rainbow and the Bible states in both the Hebrew and Christian scriptures there is a rainbow around the Throne in Heaven. The new testament book where that is also states that an angel in Heaven has a rainbow over his head. Does that make him a gay angel?   

[Ray]

I understand that the symbols were both sewn on clothing and Tattooed onto hands.  I will refresh my knowledge on this Belle.

TJ, if they's gay, they ain't no angels I imagine!

[delalluvia]

Great thread Ray. (Wasn't the pink triangle sewn on the inmates' clothes?)

FAGGOTS: In the inquisition of Europe, witches and gay people were burnt. They were required to gather the very "bundles of sticks" (the real meaning of this word) with which they would be burnt. This word comes from the French language, and came to mean "gay man", but we can see why it's an insult!

LESBIAN: This word originally referred to an inhabitant of an island in ancient Greece. The term has come to have its current meaning due to the ancient Greek lyric poet Sappho, who lived on the island; some of her poems concerned love between women.

Interestingly enough, 'fags' are still cigarettes in Europe.  And the female inhabitants of the island of Lesbos were infamous in the ancient days for their talents in oral sex.  Back then, if yoiu called a woman a 'lesbian' or 'woman of Lesbos' you were saying she gave great head.

[isabelle]

Interestingly enough, 'fags' are still cigarettes in Europe.  And the female inhabitants of the island of Lesbos were infamous in the ancient days for their talents in oral sex.  Back then, if yoiu called a woman a 'lesbian' or 'woman of Lesbos' you were saying she gave great head.

* About the word 'fag', I hadn't thought of the analogy - thanks. Is it not used for 'ciggies' in the US?

* About 'Lesbians' being women famous for giving head, was that to each other? Or is this expression only used in relation to men??

[delalluvia]

Interestingly enough, 'fags' are still cigarettes in Europe.  And the female inhabitants of the island of Lesbos were infamous in the ancient days for their talents in oral sex.  Back then, if yoiu called a woman a 'lesbian' or 'woman of Lesbos' you were saying she gave great head.

* About the word 'fag', I hadn't thought of the analogy - thanks. Is it not used for 'ciggies' in the US?

Nope.

About 'Lesbians' being women famous for giving head, was that to each other? Or is this expression only used in relation to men??

Men, apparently.  We only have writing from men for the most part from that era.  It was all about them.

[isabelle]

Men, apparently.  We only have writing from men for the most part from that era.  It was all about them.

Right enough!
And thanks for the vocab lesson, always like to get my vocab right .

[Ray]

Does that make me a lesbian then?

[delalluvia]

Does that make me a lesbian then?

 

[isabelle]

Yes Ray, it probably makes you a lesbian.

GAY: It has been claimed that this was derived as an acronym for "Good As You", but this is folk etymology. This adjective was already used in the 19th century in the same meaning, well before the gay and lesbian movement started.

[TJ]

When I was around Junior High School age, I went to see a class play at my uncle's high school. Bob was/is two years older than me. The play was Cornelia Otis Skinner's "Our Hearts Were Young and Gay." It was about two high school girls who had gone on a cruise ship to Europe and how, no matter what they did, something reminded them of their mothers back in the USA. The story had no connection with gays/homosexuals at all.

In regard to the word "queer," when I was growing up, my older sister sang solos in the Pentecostal churches we attended. I did sing with her sometimes and even with my younger sister. But, one song which stands out in my mind in regard to the word was titled "I Prayed Through." The opening lines of the song were:

"I remember when some queer folks came to town,
My pastor said, 'To that church, don't go down'."

The "queer folks" in the song were travelling evangelists who preached a salvation message and not a social gospel like the pastor of the song. And, they were also Pentecostal evangelists. And the "I" in the song "prayed through by repenting of his/her sins and accepted Jesus as a personal savior at an altar bench in the church were the revival was being held.

When I was in grade school, there were two interesting sayings. One was "Don't wear green and yellow on Thursdays because people will think you are queer." And the other one was to the girls, "Don't wear red and black on fridays because people will think you are pregnant." Most of the kids at that rural community school knew what pregnant meant; but, only a few of they knew what "queer" meant in the phrase. I am not sure that I knew either.

[ProwlAmongUs]

"Friends of Dorothy became an secret catch phrase for gay men in response to the Wizard of Oz and the gay icon Judy Garland, (a bisexual woman), to identify 'fellows'.  The death of Judy in June 1969 led to the Stonewall Riots when mourners revolted against a police raid of a gay bar."

Garland is also an icon for gays because her father was gay. Her parents divorced and her dad led a tortured life due to his orientation.

[delalluvia]

I also read that Oscar Wilde put a lot of subculture gay expressions in his plays.

'Being Earnest' was apparently slang for being gay.

[TJ]

The play, "The Importance of Being Earnest" was about a guy who was living a double life, pretending to be two different people.

It being referred to as a "Gay Play" fits in this forum quite well.

People like us who have left the closet have been accused of living a lie and/or a double life before we admitted our sexual orientation and became openly gay. 

But, since we have been lied to about what it was supposed to mean to be homosexual by the right-wing proof-texting Bible-Clobberers, it was like two lies made one truth (sorta like "double negatives make a statement a postive fact" in the American English Language). 

[TJ]

I have a rainbow striped baseball cap, a lapel pin cross with a rainbow on it and a set of "rooster"drop-style earrings with the feathers in the colors of the rainbow and I bought all of that at Christian Bookstore. 

It was related to a "De Colores" program to be used in certain Prostestant churches for use at the elementary school level to teach about accepting people from different ethnic backgrounds and people with different skin colors. I had gone in the bookstore just to see what they had to offer.

Lots of people thought the cap was a "gay" hat. One time I went with my friend, Bill, to a buffet-type Pizza place here in Tulsa and I was wearing the rainbow cap.

The drink refills were self-service all-you-can-drink and because I had to walk a ways around to get there from our table, on the way back to the table, I noticed two teenagers, a boy and a girl were following me. When I turned just before I sat down at the table with Bill, the girl said, "I will give you 5 dollars for that cap!"

I told her that it was not for sale and besides, I gave 12 dollars for it. I did tell them where they could find one just like it though.

[kudzudaddy]

As to the term "Gay"... before it attached to homosexuals, it referred to "loose" ladies... or "women of easy virtue."  i.e., gay ladies...  And since the most visible homosexuals in the early days... (I'm talking late-Victorian here.) were cross-dressers, I think there may have been a simple extrapolation.

As for "Importance of Being Earnest," it is rife with "gay" references.  The term "Bunburying" was code for "cruising"  One address mentioned in the play was the actual address of his pal  Robbie Ross ("the notorious "boy snatcher")...  it goes on and on...

BUT... at the same time... it is still one of the funniest plays in the English language.  It's success is and has been phenomenal.  And there is nothing else quite like it in all of dramatic.  Singular and sui generis.  It follows no rules of comedy but the ones Wilde invents and tosses aside as he goes. 

I'm besotted with Wilde, studied him intensely for 3 years, read every biography, every word he wrote, etc., etc., I tend to go off in a Pavlovian fashion when his name comes up so if I rattle on too much, just nudge me gently. 

On the other hand... if there's anything you'd like to know about him and his work, I'm your man.


--Kudz

[isabelle]

if I rattle on too much, just nudge me gently. 



--Kudz

Hi Kudz,

I had great pleasure reading your posts over on IMDb, and very glad to find you here, so welcome (I changed my handle from milena-covic, if that rings any bell) 

Back to the topic:

Homosexuality was struck off the list of mental illnesses by the World Health Organization only in 1990.

[DecaturTxCowboy]

Homosexuality was struck off the list of mental illnesses by the World Health Organization only in 1990.[/color]

And in 1973 by the American Psychiatric Association.

And in your dreams by the current administration.

[isabelle]

And in 1973 by the American Psychiatric Association.

1992 only, here (France)

As for your (American, I guess?) administration, when's your next election, if you're not ready for a revolution?

[kudzudaddy]

Isabelle,

great to see you again...

Thanks for your nice thoughts...

Love it here... so peaceful... lol


--Kudz

[DecaturTxCowboy]

Frank Harrell (Cowboy Frank) created a Gay Cowboy Hat Flag.

http://cowboyfrank.net/gifs/cwbyhtflg_1.gif

[DecaturTxCowboy]

This is a OSHA regulation sized warning placard I have in the back wndow of my truck.



On the back of my hard hat I wear out on oil rigs



Scanned image that I cleaned up and print various sizes out for my own stickers



Ain't skeered, no fear!

[TJ]

And in 1973 by the American Psychiatric Association.

And in your dreams by the current administration.

And in your dreams, by a whole lot of other people, too. I was talking to a neighbor lady who lives across the courtyard in the apartment complex and we were talking about American Flag wavers and those who don't even vote.

According to the US Code for the Display of the American Flag there is ONLY one way to have a flag on civilian vehicle; but, she has several things with flags on them on her car, plus two small flags attached to the doors of her cars which wave when she drives on the street or the wind is blowing.

If a US flag is used with one's personal vehicle, it must be on a staff attached to the right front fender.

We had a sales tax question of Tuesday's ballot and I asked her, I forget her name, if she voted and she said she did. And during our continued conversation, she brought up about what would happen in the USA if she didn't vote and that included homosexuals taking over the country. She tried to tell me that a now dead missionary pastor said one time that he could see "homosexual demons" in people. Well, I could have told her how senile that old man, Lester Sumrall, got before he died and still preached, but, I didn't.

I did say, "If Sumrall happened to see a demon spirit in a person who was homosexual, the demon would have been related to something else." Then I told her about what her Victory Christian Center (VCC) pastor, Billy Joe Daugherty, said one time on a live-TV church program (held on the Oral Roberts University campus in the Mabee Center). Billy Joe decided to tell the congregation and the viewing audience at the Sunday Morning 8:30 am service "how to recognize the spirit of homosexuality." He proceeded to go through a long laundry list of "symptoms" of said "spriit."

I had the TV on while I was getting ready for my ride to my own church later that morning. I stopped what I was doing to listen to what Billy Joe said. When he finished, I "spoke" to the TV as though he was in the room and said, "Billy Joe, if what you said was true, you would know that at least one of your cameramen this morning is definitely homosexual."

When I got to the Family of Faith Metropolitan Community Church for the 11:00 am service, the person whom I knew was a member of FOFMCC and VCC, too, was there with his boyfriend. Both of those guys were volunteer camera operators earlier that morning. David and I talked about what Billy Joe said and had a laugh. Because VCC is a Pentecostal/Charismatic church, many gay people can enjoy worship there as long as nothing is said about homosexuals.

I have known Billy Joe since 1972. He used to be Assembly of God and was a youth pastor when I met him.

Several years later, David and I talked with a visiting minister in another church about how people think they know homosexuals and can recognize them, too. But, the have no idea as to what they are talking about.

[Ray]

This is a OSHA regulation sized warning placard I have in the back wndow of my truck.



On the back of my hard hat I wear out on oil rigs



Scanned image that I cleaned up and print various sizes out for my own stickers



Ain't skeered, no fear!

BRILLIANT Kudzudaddy!  Brilliant.

[delalluvia]

Heh, I love the 'No Fear' sticker.  I had one on the back of my car for the longest time.

Proudest moment was when an ice storm roared into town and I struggled to get into work.

Later that night on the news, I watched a camera crew and reporter do a story on the miserable weather standing by the freeway, just to see my car going by in the background with that sticker on the back.

Yee haw!

I love the 'Ain't skeered' version, but alas, I'm not a redneck. 

[TJ]

BRILLIANT Kudzudaddy!  Brilliant.

Why did you quote what Justin, aka DecaturTxCowboy, posted and give credit to someone else?

[DecaturTxCowboy]

Why did you quote what Justin, aka DecaturTxCowboy, posted and give credit to someone else?

No biggie, he prolly got mixed up in the threads and replied to wrong post.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any post thru a buried water line is a wrong post...and a muddy mess to boot.

[TJ]

The original poster which I created actually had the triangle as plain pink. When I scanned it, it did not come out the same color.

The books stand for Education. The Rainbow Flag stand for the fact that it represents diversity and God who created the rainbow in the first place. The Eagle is a symbol for the USA. The Native American dancer stand for my own Cherokee heritage (that's a "grass-dancing" outfit). The building is a combination of school and a church. I have gone to church in country school houses, some no longer used for school.

[Ray]

Why did you quote what Justin, aka DecaturTxCowboy, posted and give credit to someone else?

No biggie, he prolly got mixed up in the threads and replied to wrong post.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any post thru a buried water line is a wrong post...and a muddy mess to boot.

Yes that's exactly what happened.  Sorry guys.  I think it's a great post none the less.

[TJ]

Yes that's exactly what happened.  Sorry guys.  I think it's a great post none the less.

DecaturTxCowboy has an injured hand which gives him a lot of problems right now. He started posting here because I invited him.

We cyber-know each other because we have been involved in Yahoo Groups discussing Brokeback Mountain.

[Ray]

Welcome DecaturTxCowboy.  Hope you love the place as much as we do.  It's a fun group of people with wonderful hearts.  Hope the hand is okay.

[DecaturTxCowboy]

DecaturTxCowboy has an injured hand which gives him a lot of problems right now. He started posting here because I invited him.

LOL...well, its really the tip of my little pinky finger. But after a $12,000 of surgery, it is still sore.

Scooter was taunting Willard over the food bowl and Willard said enough of this sh*t and snapped at Scooter, and yeah, I got into the middle of it and Scooter accidently bit my finger. Cleaned the wounds out, and closed them up with a safety pin (my doctor was NOT amused). Got infected (DUH!), took three hours of surgery for crushed bone, ripped muscles and torn ligaments - like I'm thinking, OK, this will be done with a local...but after the third morphine in my IV, I was down for the count. Was in the hospital four days. Been going back three times a week for cleaning so that I don't get scar tissue. Will be fine for the rodeo in OKC at end of month. Vidocin and orange juice - the breakfast of champions.

In April while chute dogging, I twisted my left thumb so far back my wrist swelled up to twice its size - had my thumb in a steer's mouth and he twisted his head while I was trying to flip him over on his back. Got the dog bite on right hand three weeks ago. Had horse bite my left hand again week before last.

Chute dogging -  You stand in the cattle chute next to the steer. The gate opens and depending how pissed off the steer is, he'll pull you out of the chute or you gotta pull him to the ten feet to the chalk line. Then you have to flip him over on his back - that's called dogging the steer.

Ya'll think I'm making this up???  It really IS a rodeo event!

http://telecomanddata.com/2006_FW-Rodeo_chute-dogging-event/  Picture of me at the bottom...smiling. Beer is good!

Two pics of me at the Sunday event.

[TJ]

DecaturTxCowboy has an injured hand which gives him a lot of problems right now. He started posting here because I invited him.

 

LOL...well, its really the tip of my little pinky finger. But after a $12,000 of surgery, it is still sore.

Scooter was taunting Willard over the food bowl and Willard said enough of this sh*t and snapped at Scooter, and yeah, I got into the middle of it and Scooter accidently bit my finger. Cleaned the wounds out, and closed them up with a safety pin (my doctor was NOT amused). Got infected (DUH!), took three hours of surgery for crushed bone, ripped muscles and torn ligaments - like I'm thinking, OK, this will be done with a local...but after the third morphine in my IV, I was down for the count. Was in the hospital four days. Been going back three times a week for cleaning so that I don't get scar tissue. Will be fine for the rodeo in OKC at end of month. Vidocin and orange juice - the breakfast of champions.

Well, even when there is damage to a little part of a finger, it is like the whole hand is injured; same way with a little toe injury, the whole foot hurts.

Oh, folks, when in an IM chat with Justin this week, I told him that I had to leave the computer because I had to take  strong combo pain killer, which contains butalbital, due the kind of headache I had. He told me to go take come orange juice with it. I thought that was funny for him to say. I only have to take plenty of water with the pill. Actually, I get it from the VA Pharmacy and it is sent to me by mail. It is the only 'script which I have to sign for from the VA. I am not addicted to it; I only know when I am not taking it. I have a permanent headache due to the head trauma; it is just that sometimes it is worse than others.

I told Justin that it felt like my cowboy hat size was too small. But, I was bare-headed.

Justin, Good Buddy, thanks for posting the info and the pics, too.

See folks, DecaturTxCowboy is a cowboy and he knows how to rodeo! But, maybe he had better get himself a 'nuther dog 'n' horse. 

[Ray]

Well, even when there is damage to a little part of a finger, it is like the whole hand is injured; same way with a little toe injury, the whole foot hurts.

Yes, it's amazing isn't it that the smallest of irritations can effect everything we do.  It so easilly undermines our general feeling of wellbeing.  We can be very vulnerable we humans.

[isabelle]

Screeching back to the topic:

In/until (at least) the 1990's in France, homophobia was the first cause of suicides and attempted suicides among male teenagers. (I'll try to get hold of the current figures).

[TJ]

In the USA, it has been documented that at least one third of all teenage suicides and attempted suicides has been related to sexual orientation.

[isabelle]

Homosexuality stopped being a CRIME in France in 1982 (1969 in West Germany).
color]

Even the death penalty was abolished before that here (1981)

[Ray]

In 1992, the Australian Defence Force changed its rules regarding homosexual members of the forces. Previously obliged to leave the services, homosexuals not only gained the right to be accepted and not to be dismissed on the basis of sexuality alone, but also gained access to certain of the benefits available to other ADF members although certainly not to all.

Gay soldiers, pilots and sailors in the Australian Defence Force are entitled to the same benefits as heterosexual couples. This means equal benefits in housing, moving stipends, education assistance and leave entitlements. The Australian Defence Force (ADF) will acknowledge personnel’s same-sex partnerships as "interdependent relationships." These benefits apply only to ADF members who are involved in interdependent relationships with a same-sex partner. To be recognised as interdependent, same-sex partners will have to show they have a "close personal relationship" that involves domestic and financial support.

[Ray]

States with Anti-Discrimination laws based on Sexual Orientation:

Austrailian Capital Territory Employment, education, access to premises, goods, services and facilities, accommodation, clubs, and requests for information.

Queensland Lawful sexual activity only. Work involving the care or instruction of minors is exempted.

New South Wales Employment, accommodation, education, the provision of goods, services, and club membership or benefits. Churches are exempted.

Northern Territory Inter alia employment, education, accomodation, goods, services, facilities and clubs. Work involving the care or instruction of minors is exempted.

South Australia Inter alia employment, associations, trades unions, education, land, goods, services, and accommodation. Exempts discrimination on the basis of dress, appearance and behaviour that is characteristic of a person's sexuality.

Tasmania Employment, also bans incitement of hatred and severe ridicule based on sexual orientation.

Victoria Lawful sexual activity, employment, education, provision of goods and services, disposal of land, accommodation, clubs and club members, sports, local government. Work involving the care or instruction of minors is exempted.

[TJ]

The only place in the USA or its federal institutions where homosexuality, aka sodomy, is still illegal is the US Military.

But, all over the USA we have vice cops following individual men who go in public restrooms in order to entrap them for being homosexuals.

I had two undercover Tulsa vice cops attempt to do that with me a few years ago. I was at the Tulsa River Parks near an overlook by a bridge over the Arkansas River and visiting with an openly gay friend. We had been sitting on the block wall above the overlook and was facing the drive into the parking lot.

I told my friend that I had to go pee and I would be right back. The public restroom building was behind the closed consession stand there. When I went around the building, standing near the door to the women's side was a man around 30 who was wearing regular eyeglasses. There was a utility room between the restrooms and I went into the men's side.

The room was set up so that along one wall was two lavatories, two urinals and then two toilet stalls with 3 1/3 foot high partitions. I went to the 1st urinal which had a little divider next to it.

A few moments later, a man whom I had never seen before came and stood at the other urinal. He acted like he wanted to see what I was doing. And, a very short time after that, the man whom I had seen outside came in and stood as though he might urinate at the last stall. When I am in a public restroom, I always pay attention to what is going on without trying to look obvious. The guy with the glasses appeared to be masturbating.

I actually was not even interested in them in the first place and I did my business and left as soon as I was finished and went back out to be with my friend. (I have his name written on an old calendar in the store room.)

Since it was getting hot in the sun, he and I decided to move down the way to the picnic tables by the parking lot. We were sitting on a table and the guy with the glasses and a man about 70 years old came down the paved path and stood at an empty parking space.

An older model red car pulled in and the driver got out. He was the other man whom I had seen in the toilet. Then the glasses dude sits in the driver's seat and when he reaches across to the glove box, it dawned on me, "These guys are cops!" The guy in the car was getting a citation book to write on so that he could arrest the older man and take him downtown. That they did.

A while later, my friend had left and a young man, probably not 21, drove up in the the empty space in front of the table where I was sitting and since I knew that he was definitely a restroom/T-room cruiser and gay, too, I felt that I had better warn him. But, before I could get to his car, he backed up so that his car would be parked on the opposite side of the lot and his license plate not that easy to read by a cop in a car.

So, I followed him as a backed up. And before I could say one word, the cop with the glasses quickly appeared and asked, "Did you tell him we were cops?"  I told the cop after he said he went to church, "Did you know that Jesus said entrapment was wrong?" His response was, "Well, he said homosexuality was wrong, too." I told him that Jesus never mentioned it.

After that day, if I just happened to be within a mile of that restroom and the vice cops who had been told whom I was, I woud be approached and told to leave the park, because they did not want me to interfere with "police business."

I knew an ACLU lawyer who was also the co-president of the local chapter of PFLAG. I told Bill that they told me to leave the park and he said that since I have not been seen breaking any law by them, they had no legal right to tell me to leave.

I have yet to hear in a TV news report or even read in the newspaper where local cops have actually arrested two men having sex in a public place. Each report that I know about was always an individual man and one or more vice cops.

[Impish]

In Chicago in the 70's and 80's (and I assume other cities did this also), small gay neighborhood pubs would hang their beer signs outside upside-down to signal it was a gay joint.  This was not done for the big discos such as The Bistro, but only for little corner bars that didn't even have a neon sign with their own name.

For all I know, this may still be going on... but I doubt it.   I saw it a lot when I lived on N. Halsted, in a neighborhood then called New Town (but is now known as Boy's Town).  When it was still New Town, it was not known as a gay neighborhood: it was the beginning of "guppies" ("gay urban professionals") moving there and revitalizing the neighborhood.  I was one of those guppies in 1974 and '75.

Now that it is "the" gay neighborhood in Chicago, I wonder if all those beer signs -- signs made by the breweries themselves, such as Miller's or Budweiser -- are still upside down.....?  Probably not.

An interesting side note about those days:  I worked at a major bank downtown, and took the 'L' to get there.  The shortest route for my walk to the 'L' took me through a block or two controlled by gangs, so I had been advised to go the long way around to avoid that area.

Instead, I went through it, and sure enough was surrounded by gang members the second or third time.  I just told them I lived on Halsted, worked downtown, and asked their permission to pass by twice a day.  As soon as I used the term "permission" they broke into smiles, and I never had a problem.  In fact, I believe they came to think  they were protecting me ... I would often get an escort or two through the neighborhood, and in the first few weeks I saw them spread the word about me, telling kids who hadn't met me yet "hands off," and "he gets a pass, tell X and Y."

We never mentioned it, but I now think they knew I was gay.  They knew everything going on in their neighborhood and must have been aware of the swelling number of guppies moving in.  It was never an issue, so far as I knew.

How strange:  I'm getting nostalgic and teary-eyed,  remembering these young hoodlums!  I hadn't thought of them in years.

[isabelle]

Wow, Impish, what a great story! Can you imagine, for a little Frenchie like me, reading a real-life story about gangs in Chicago... I thought it existed only in films!

Yesterday was "Fight Homophobia" day in France. Never knew it existed, it must be very recent. But if we feel the need to have one such day, it is because it is NEEDED. Oh, don't dream, it didn't make the headlines! No TV spoke about it, nothing. There were just 5 lines in the inside pages of a local, free newspaper.
It did say that although homophobia has been repressed by law over the past 10 years, the number of homophobic muggings (11% of all violent attacks on individuals) and general harassment is actually on the rise. The worst places for it are: the family circle, the work place, and school, for pupils.
Anyone still believes that 'Europe' as a whole is liberal on the issue of homosexuality? Count France out.
 But I wouldn't bet on France being the only one in Europe, nor the worst.

[Impish]

Yesterday was "Fight Homophobia" day in France. Never knew it existed, it must be very recent. But if we feel the need to have one such day, it is because it is NEEDED. Oh, don't dream, it didn't make the headlines! No TV spoke about it, nothing. There were just 5 lines in the inside pages of a local, free newspaper.
It did say that although homophobia has been repressed by law over the past 10 years, the number of homophobic muggings (11% of all violent attacks on individuals) and general harassment is actually on the rise. The worst places for it are: the family circle, the work place, and school, for pupils.
Anyone still believes that 'Europe' as a whole is liberal on the issue of homosexuality? Count France out.
 But I wouldn't bet on France being the only one in Europe, nor the worst.

Hi Isabelle! 

I lived in Paris for a year (Fall 1991-1992)... and it was the happiest year of my life.   I'll be in Nice in late July for a few days, and I can't wait...  I'm reading Le Petit Prince in French to freshen up my ability (je parle comme une vache).

In the U.S., we have a National Coming Out Day (October 11, I believe), but it's not recognized by the government.  When I was in University in the late 70's, October 11 was proclaimed "Wear-Blue-Jeans-If-You're-Gay" day by GLBT organizations, and it was a huge success.  Everyone had to decide if they were brave enough to wear their usual jeans.  Closeted gays wore slacks, and a few of my closer  straight friends wore jeans and discovered what it was like to be hated for a day.

Everyone was talking about it for days afterward, and I always wondered why the event was never repeated. 

Does anyone else remember this?

[isabelle]

Impish: I do believe that Paris is an exception. Many of my gay friends went to live there, so they could be themselves more easily. Far away from their families...
 2 years ago, there was an attempted murder on the Mayor of Paris, who is gay. The guy who stabbed him said he did it because he can't stand "poofs" ("fags"), but that was not insisted on in the news. All we heard was "a madman tried to kill the Mayor of Paris, out of hatred of politicians". Hunh?? That is because homosexuality, and homophobia, is an issue no one wants to talk about or acknowledge, here.
A shame Nice is so far away from me! I hope you have a lovely time there.
Tu dis que tu parles comme une vache, mais tu sais faire de l'humour en français, alors tu dois être plutôt doué!

[Kelda]

Found this thread when looking for another post which I knew was on bettermost - thought it was time to bump it. I had never seen it before and thought it was really interesting.

Also the post I was looking for was by brokeback_dev and i will quote here for ease.

OK so I'm a Christian, but I have nothing against two men loving each other or two woman loving each other.. I go to church and i have to ignore the preacher when he mentions anything against homosexuality. 

the bible clearly states:

* Leviticus 25:44 states it is fine to purchase slaves.  WTF??

* Exodus 21:7 claims you are allowed to sell your daughter into slavery.  OMFG!

* Leviticus 19:19 states that two crops should not be planted in the same field and that wearing garments of two different fabrics is sinful.  Several shirts i own are made of more than two fabrics like ramey and nylon!  Give me a break!

* Leviticus 24:10-16 states that anyone who curses or is blasphemous must be stoned to death by members of his/her community.  Guess we should all be stoned to death lol

* Exodus 35:2 very clearly states that if you work on Sunday, you should be put to death.

* Leviticus 10:10 states that eating shellfish is an "abomination." Religious groups often say the same thing about homosexuality. Red lobster, anybody?

* Leviticus 20:20 states that if you have any kind of defect in sight, you may not approach the altar of God.  Does that mean that when my cataracts develop i cant go to church?  Oh come on!

* Leviticus 19:27 says men should be put to death for trimming their hair around their temples.  Thats just ridiculous.

* Leviticus 11:6-8 says touching the skin of a dead pig is sinful. Think of American football.