Author Topic: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind  (Read 90178 times)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2006, 08:00:34 am »
And speaking of that postcard scene -- this may not be the thread for it, but what the hell -- I'm always amazed at how well Ennis keeps his composure when Alma says that. Just calmly finishes washing his hands, finally says "Maybe ... why?" Is he afraid to reveal anything untoward? Afraid to get his hopes up? At the very least, I think it's interesting that when telling Alma about his summer on Brokeback he obviously not only didn't give details but never even mentioned the name of the guy he worked with. What are your thoughts?

That struck me, too.  And I have a thought on why that is based on my own experience.  That "true" love I've mentioned on the PT board ultimately married someone else, too.  The first time I met her was when he brought her to my house (surprisingly, actually) for a party I was having after I was married.  At this point, they were just dating seriously.  She couldn't have been nicer and I couldn't help but like her.  The next time I came across them at a mutual friends' party, she was as cold as ice.  And he was, too.  I thought, "What the hell?  Did I say or do something to offend them last time?"  I couldn't for the life of me think of what that could have been - they left my house that night giving me a very warm good-bye and seemed to have had a really nice time.  I noticed over the next few months that they had broken up for a little while.  Came to find out from a mutual friend of hers that the reason for all that was that he had neglected to mention to her that he and I had ever dated, and we dated for about a year quite exclusively only about two years prior to his starting to see her.  The first time he had ever mentioned my name to her was when I had that party.  I guess a little while after that, that mutual friend said something to her like, "I'm surprised you guys went to that party - what with their history and all."  And all hell broke loose.

So Ennis didn't ever mention his name because - yeah - I think he thought that in doing that, he'd betray something in himself and Alma would realize there was more there than met the eye.  Not consciously.  And I think there's an element, too, of not wanting to share that time with him on the mountain with anyone else - of just sliding it a panel forward at a time to stoke his days.

Funny thing with my story - I did tell Ed about his and my history.  Not first thing, but once we were comfortably in our own groove and sharing everything.  They had been a couple for several months before this debacle transpired.  I've also come to find out that he tells everyone I broke up with him, when that couldn't be further from the truth in my mind.  Does he really see it that way?

Sigh.  Look at you all, see the love there that's sleeping... 
No more beans!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #91 on: July 09, 2006, 12:44:46 pm »
Let's see, earth related things would be found in Jack's domain. One that I can think of off the top of my head is the big tractor that is used for earth moving, and other farm equipment that are the four-wheeled versions of four-footed animals. Others? I'm sure they are there!!
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2006, 03:48:23 pm »
Okay, two other Ennis-related things that are in Jack's domain... in the hallway where Jack seems to spend half his time there is a drawing or photo of a horse. Also prominently featured are closets, which seem to take up half the room.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2006, 03:56:16 pm »
Lee these are really good observations!  I really like the tractor idea.  It's interesting that Jack becomes a relatively wealthy man due to his skill at selling machines that move the earth (as you say).  Lureen says that he's the best and only combine salesman they have.   So, Jack has some skills when it comes to dealing with the earth, ie. Ennis.
 ;)

I'll have to think more about other examples of Ennis's symbols in Jack's "domain" (other than white hats).  It's definitely a good idea to flip the situation around here a bit.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2006, 07:06:07 pm »
'Nother thing. In the corner of Jack and Lureen's room is a clothespole, and Ennis was described as "lean as a clothespole."
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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2006, 05:02:18 pm »
The concept of things related to Jack being in Ennis's domain and vice versa begins earlier while they were on the mountain. For instance there is a scene where Ennis is standing in a rushing stream washing a coffeepot. He looks up and sees Jack on the mountainside, so small he looks like an insect (according to the story). Cut to a scene of Jack overlooking the herd of sheep who are moving screen right, just the opposite of the water in the previous screen. Jack crouches down to aim and shoot at a coyote, which he misses. Both the sheep and the coyote are four-footed animals associated with Ennis, and perhaps the gun is too, being a volatile weapon, although some have theorized that the gun stands for their relationship. In a similar way, the coffeepot is associated with Jack, even though he supposedly is from Texas, and does not drink coffee, which is one of the inside jokes of the movie.
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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2006, 05:17:47 pm »
'nother example. Remember the scene where in the foreground we see Jack peeling potatoes and Ennis with a bucket of water, washing himself. Potatoes grow in the earth, so are associated with Ennis. What's more, Ennis has just "peeled" himself!   ;)
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2006, 10:21:40 pm »
Hey there Friend!
Thanks for reviving this old thread!  My favorite of all BetterMost metaphors... the wind idea.

Anyway, I like the potato idea.  And, I've never thought to notice the direction of the sheep movement vs. the flow of the stream.  That's very good.  It's interesting that Jack is unable to shoot a coyote just as Ennis feels unable to eat a sheep.  These are both earth-animals and furthermore the sheep (at least in my own funny little reading of BBM) are equated with Jack (and to a certain extent gay men in general).  Ennis is able to kill a coyote though.  He tells Jack that he killed that one coyote and then we see another dead coyote all strung up by the herd after TS1 and before the boys' chat on the hillside.  So, why is Ennis able to kill a coyote and not Jack?
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2006, 12:38:58 am »
So, why is Ennis able to kill a coyote and not Jack?

For one thing, I think it's because Ennis is supposed to be the more skilled cowboy. For another, it may symbolize whose decisions prevail in their relationship. Jack misses the coyote, gets thrown by his horse, never gets Ennis to settle down with him.


Offline fernly

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Re: "I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2006, 02:21:26 am »
Quote
For one thing, I think it's because Ennis is supposed to be the more skilled cowboy. For another, it may symbolize whose decisions prevail in their relationship. Jack misses the coyote, gets thrown by his horse, never gets Ennis to settle down with him.

I wonder a little about Ennis being the more skilled. Ennis gets thrown off his horse, too. And gets injured. When Jack gets thrown he never mentions it until days(?) later and then only says his harmonica got flattened, nothing about any hurt to himself. (though I have wondered too if the slow and careful way Jake sits down at the beginning of their 'rodeo cowboy' scene could have been his way of showing that Jack had fallen shortly before that).

Years later, Ennis tells Jenny that he only stayed on that saddle bronc for three seconds, while Jack had ridden bulls (an even more demanding and dangerous event), and, regardless of what those two customers said, he had done more than tried to ride them. Jack wouldn't have earned the two or three thousand dollars (film or story amounts) without having some success at it.

Clearly, though, Ennis is a better shot than Jack. Symbolically, what could that imply? Maybe one interpretation, least as far the coyotes are concerned, could tie back to the sign on Aguirre's trailer that trespassers will be shot, and survivors will be shot again.
The coyotes are certainly trespassers far as sheepherders are concerned, so Ennis shoots 'em, including the one that survived Jack's attempt.
Then there's Ennis' wedding, where we hear, not "dearly beloved", or (fantasy scene material - "if anyone can show cause why..."), no, we hear part of the Lord's prayer - "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."
So who's the trespasser here, according to Ennis? (Since that voice-over starts while Ennis is kneeling in the alley, I think we can safely read that concern over trespass as being at least somewhat reflective of his thoughts.)

With good reason, Ennis sees a lot of dangers in the world and tries his best to protect those he feels responsible for and loves, and also himself, from those dangers.
If the trespasser(danger) is a coyote, that's comparatively easy for Ennis to deal with. If it's something you can't shoot, though, like awful fathers, or a condemning society, Jack, who can't shoot coyotes, proves himself more versatile (pun absolutely intended from the the name of the combine Jack is driving with Bobby) at dealing with those threats that "trespass against us."

But why can't Jack shoot coyotes? Maybe to show that he can't deal with the dangers to them in a way that would make Ennis feel safe.
on the mountain flying in the euphoric, bitter air