Author Topic: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?  (Read 20201 times)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2006, 03:13:53 pm »
I think a large part of why this is The Ultimate Romance movie for me is Jack Twist as portrayed by Jake Gyllenhaal. His expressions of love and longing...and at the end, bitter disappointment and sadness is sometimes just too much to bear. It's pure, sweet and completely heartbreaking. Jake really brought to life a character of such innocent and romantic longing that it made me want to love like that (or at least find someone like that to love me!)

And the other half, Ennis Del Mar as portrayed by Heath Ledger, also adds to the romantic heartbreak by showing us a man who is capable of happiness and pure love in private....but not in public. Like the other posters here mentioned, this is about two regular everyday people who (IMHO) realistically fell in love. No effects. No overbearing John Williams soundtrack. No overacting emoting. Just plain fellas falling in love. A love that dares not speak its name. Now that's romantic tragedy at its best.

Also beautifully-said, RF.  To expand on this just a little, it's about Jack's outward yearning and Ennis' inward one.  What's so heartbreaking to me is how much Ennis always holds back from Jack.  We see him *pining* for him in all those scenes when he's without him.  Out on the highway, looking towards the mountains in the distance, in bed with Alma, trying with all his might to pretend she's him, waiting for his arrival and drinking 7 (or is it 8 ;)) beers and chain-smoking because he's so afraid he isn't gonna show/so excited at the anticipation of his actually showing.  And then all he can say to Jack's "What about you?" is "Me? Uh, I ... dunno..."  Or when Jack says "Truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it," and he can't even muster a single word, but we *know* his heart has been burning for him since the last time he saw him.  You're right, though - it's both of them.  Because as we've said many times before, you can't have one without the other.  And it's that constant push and pull between them that's so captivating.  As one of my acting heroes says, it's about the delicate cord that exists between two people who love each other.  Lee hones in on that delicacy - it's his particular talent.  And as I've said before, this film separates the men from the boys for me - the men being the ones who can see and appreciate that delicate cord for how very real it is, and the boys being the ones who need their love stories to be utterly contrived and overtly emotional in order for them to make any sense to them.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 03:16:53 pm by ednbarby »
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 08:09:12 pm »
Exactly!  Beautifully-stated, Amanda.  I hope you don't mind if I use this argument the next time one of my boneheaded ex-friends tries that lame-ass argument on me.

Awww, thanks Friend.  Of course, feel free to use that line of argument anytime.  ;)

Along with all the things people have mentioned... The pace and wistfulness of the filming goes a long way to producing a romantic atmosphere.  That and the intangible, indescribable chemistry between Jack and Ennis also contributes a great deal.  Jake and Heath just flat out have some chemistry going in real life too.  Even in their "real life" interviews there's an amazing chemistry (be it platonic and just friendship or not). 
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2006, 08:31:55 pm »
They absolutely have the chemistry, Amanda.  And that's something you either have with someone for real or you don't.  Laurence Olivier or Carrot Top - you cannot act pheromones.
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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2006, 09:31:43 pm »
Also beautifully-said, RF.  To expand on this just a little, it's about Jack's outward yearning and Ennis' inward one.  What's so heartbreaking to me is how much Ennis always holds back from Jack.  We see him *pining* for him in all those scenes when he's without him.  Out on the highway, looking towards the mountains in the distance, in bed with Alma, trying with all his might to pretend she's him, waiting for his arrival and drinking 7 (or is it 8 ;)) beers and chain-smoking because he's so afraid he isn't gonna show/so excited at the anticipation of his actually showing.  And then all he can say to Jack's "What about you?" is "Me? Uh, I ... dunno..."  Or when Jack says "Truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it," and he can't even muster a single word, but we *know* his heart has been burning for him since the last time he saw him.  You're right, though - it's both of them.  Because as we've said many times before, you can't have one without the other.  And it's that constant push and pull between them that's so captivating.  As one of my acting heroes says, it's about the delicate cord that exists between two people who love each other.  Lee hones in on that delicacy - it's his particular talent.  And as I've said before, this film separates the men from the boys for me - the men being the ones who can see and appreciate that delicate cord for how very real it is, and the boys being the ones who need their love stories to be utterly contrived and overtly emotional in order for them to make any sense to them.

Hey Barb, the "afterglow" scene in the hotel always makes me a little sad for Ennis.  Right there and there, lying in Jack's arms, he's so happy and in love.  You see him stroke Jacks arm when he confesses that he thought he's never see Jack again after "that punch".  And just when Jack talks about redlining it there and asks "how about you", Ennis runs back inside his shell, unable to say anything but reflect on his lot in life.  You just want to give him a good shake don't you?

But one thing that I've been thinking lately is Jack was all too willing to accept the situation and the limited amount of time Ennis was willing/able to give him.  The book talks about the first "fishing trip" as almost a consolation prize after Ennis rejects the cow-and-calf operation and "shoots Jack's plane out of the sky".  I'm not getting into a book/film comparison here, but I sometimes wonder why Jack did this.  In my thinking this makes him a co-conspirator, and makes him equally responsible for Ennis' reluctance as Ennis was.

So another reason the film is realistic and romantic, they each make mistakes and fail to do the obvious thing that would make them happy - again, just like real life!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 10:18:01 pm by Aussie Chris »
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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 10:10:23 pm »
Here in the USA, we call a hotel where you can park your "motor car" right outside of the front door a "motel." That's "motor hotel" shortened to one word. The place was called the "Motel Siesta."

In the book, after Jack and Ennis trade places, and Ennis actually gets to work while riding his horse with the sheep, Ennis begins to have a change in his own self-esteem.

Ennis felt that he had accomplished something when the first thing he told Jack when he came down from above to the camp platform was that he had killed a coyote at first light. Ennis' spirit is that of one who is a protector. After he shaves, Ennis strips off in front of the campfire (Jack notices that Ennis wears no underwear nor socks) and warshes everything he can reach while Jack is peeling potatoes. And after supper, Ennis opens up to Jack about his life before Brokeback. And, Jack shares his own experiences, too.

That evening together where Jack and Ennis respected each other's opinions moved Ennis' self-esteem up several notches. That's why he felt like he could paw the white out of the moon when he was riding back up to spend the night with the sheep.

It could have been love at first sight for Jack Twist; but, with Ennis, the friendship which developed over time turned into his being in love with Jack. I think that the "dozy embrace" flashback where a sexless hunger was satisfied took place during their developing friendship before the first night in the tent. I feel that Jack had a need of natural affection from another man as to fill a emptiness for companionship and that Ennis took care of doing that in his sorta mothering Jack by holding  him behind. I only use "mothering" here because Ennis apparently never got hugs and kisses or was even held by his own father before his father died.

While my situation with Ed Pursell was not quite like that of Jack and Ennis, I believe that Ed was in love with me from the beginning of our first night together. I moved in with him 10 days after that. I loved Ed as a friend and it felt like being with family in his presence. But, we were together for a while before I realized that I was in love with him and said to myself, "I want to spend the rest of my life with this man."

And, I had that thought one evening when Ed was fixing something to eat and I was standing in the kitchen talking to him. We had talks like I had with my mother in the kitchen at home.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2006, 11:53:17 pm »
Hey Barb, the "afterglow" scene in the hotel always makes me a little sad for Ennis.  Right there and there, lying in Jack's arms, he's so happy and in love.  You see him stroke Jacks arm when he confesses that he thought he's never see Jack again after "that punch".  And just when Jack talks about redlining it there and asks "how about you", Ennis runs back inside his shell, unable to say anything but reflect on his lot in life.  You just want to give him a good shake don't you?

Yes, there is a bit of frustration with Ennis's inability to articulate things here in the motel.  But, film-Ennis almost exclusively expresses his affection physically... after each of Jack's questions/ comments in the motel Ennis caresses his arm... and he does this especially forcefully when Jack says "Brokeback got us good."  But, Ennis does sort of laugh in agreement when Jack talks about redlining it and being so anxious to get there.  He also echos Jack's little "four years" comment in the very beginning of the scene.  The "I dunno" is pretty frustrating at the same time.  Jack doesn't seem concerned by this at this point.  I think he understands the part about reading Ennis's physical signals throughout.  If nothing else, Jack is very smart and careful about how he approaches Ennis, what he tells him, how he deals with all of Ennis's millions of insecurities... People of these threads have said that Ennis speaks and expresses himself in a sort of code since he's so closeted.  Jack becomes extremely good at interpreting all this, though yes Jack certainly makes some mistakes. 

It makes me sad that the beautiful mood at the beginning of the "prayer of thanks" scene is broken and made at least sad and worrisome just at the moment when Jack really takes a risk and puts himself out there with his cow and calf operation proposal.  It may have been too soon to suggest living together... almost the equivalent of a marriage proposal.  But, I guess we need to bear in mind that he doesn't yet know the full extent of Ennis's fear, internalized homophobia and background until the Earl story.  Talk about a super romantic scene filled with a million complexities.  It goes from sweet, peaceful and simple... to a moment filled with a bit of pressure through Jack's proposal (certainly romantic tension from Jack's perspective)... to Ennis's revelation of his deepest fears... and then to the beautifully sweet and loving resolution of Jack caressing Ennis's face.  I also think that this moment of conversation contains Ennis's biggest moment of verbal commitment to Jack (at least while he's alive).  When Jack asks how long they'll be together under Ennis's sad rule of only "once in a while"... Ennis replies "for as long as we can ride it".  I think this greatly eases the disappointment for Jack.  Ennis is essentially saying that he wants to be with Jack for as long as humanly possible.  The "there ain't no reigns on this one" comment is awfully romantic too.  It's like he's saying he's so in love with Jack that he can't control himself or societal reactions, but he'll try to make this work for as long as he can.

OK, so I'm going on and on... but I have one last comment here (for now  ::) ).
I think one of the reasons the movie is soooo romantic is that it's essentially about intimacy and loving someone way beyond anything to do directly with sex.  I think this is the point behind the flashback scene and even the way that Proulx writes that scene.  They want to be together and cling to one another.  The love making is a big part of it... but usually when we see them in moments of physical contact, they're hugging or cradling each other, or kissing rather gently.  I think it's very interesting that the motel scene does focus on the "afterglow," the embrace and the conversation and not on the actual "love scene" itself.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 01:12:23 am »
... When Jack asks how long they'll be together under Ennis's sad rule of only "once in a while"... Ennis replies "for as long as we can ride it".  I think this greatly eases the disappointment for Jack.  Ennis is essentially saying that he wants to be with Jack for as long as humanly possible.  The "there ain't no reigns on this one" comment is awfully romantic too.  It's like he's saying he's so in love with Jack that he can't control himself or societal reactions, but he'll try to make this work for as long as he can.

That's how I read that conversation, too, Amanda. What else could he mean by "if this thing takes hold of us at the wrong place, wrong time" -- what is the "thing"? It's love, or the passionate expression of it -- so powerful that Ennis worries they won't be able to resist showing it, wherever they are.

I know some people feel sad for Jack when Ennis doesn't answer the "how bout you?" question. But I tend to think that's more OUR frustration than Jack's -- we'd sure like to hear Ennis say something nice, but Jack barely seems to notice. In fact his "Brokeback got us good, didn't it" immediately afterward shows that he understands that Brokeback got Ennis good, too, whether he says so or not.

And that's the pattern throughout their relationship. Ennis has ways of expressing his love, they're just not verbal for the most part. But Jack knows how to read them. I never get the sense that Jack is longing for confirmation that Ennis loves him. What he's longing is for Ennis to make a commitment to that love.

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2006, 03:06:04 am »
That's how I read that conversation, too, Amanda. What else could he mean by "if this thing takes hold of us at the wrong place, wrong time" -- what is the "thing"? It's love, or the passionate expression of it -- so powerful that Ennis worries they won't be able to resist showing it, wherever they are.

Um, I don't think "love" is completely the right word in place of "thing" for me - "passion" suites better in my mind (sorry if that's just simantics).  I don't think I was necessarily "sad" at Ennis not saying something nice to Jack at this time, actually I think it's in keeping with his lack of thought on the issue, and his caresses of Jack arm speaks volumes anyway.  So I agree that this was enough for Jack (at least then).

It's interesting to me that I have very fond feelings towards Ennis when I think about him in this light.  Contrastingly though, if we were to have a detailed conversation about how Jack felt, my frustration would probably rule.  Makes me think I have an idea of what it might be like to be Libran or maybe I'm thinking Gemini - I get confused about who's supposed to be what... ;)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2006, 11:35:13 am »
Um, I don't think "love" is completely the right word in place of "thing" for me - "passion" suites better in my mind (sorry if that's just simantics).

Tell you what, Chris, you're right. And it's not just semantics, it's a valid distinction. I'll take that back. What he refers to as "this thing (that) grabs hold of us" is passion, not love.

However, I think he subtly expresses love throughout this scene, from the "prayer of thanks" to the lines Amanda mentioned about "long as we can ride it" and "ain't no reins."

Quote
I don't think I was necessarily "sad" at Ennis not saying something nice to Jack at this time, actually I think it's in keeping with his lack of thought on the issue, and his caresses of Jack arm speaks volumes anyway.  So I agree that this was enough for Jack (at least then).

There's just an ongoing division of opinions on this issue: did Ennis express his love to Jack? I'm in the school that says he did, unmistakably. Believe me, personally I would LOVE to see more endearments from Ennis, verbal or otherwise. They're my favorite parts! But I think limiting them helps define his character.

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It's interesting to me that I have very fond feelings towards Ennis when I think about him in this light.  Contrastingly though, if we were to have a detailed conversation about how Jack felt, my frustration would probably rule.

That tension is answer factor in what makes the movie so romantic, hunh?

Offline nic

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Re: What do you think makes this movie so romantic?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2006, 12:09:24 pm »
My take on this question is that it is because we see their relationship portrayed as the ultimate first love and lasting love.  It is probably both guys' first (& only) time properly in love, and they fall in love in an idyllic setting where it's just the two of them & nature.  The ideal place, making it all the more special even though first love is so special anyway.  You feel like there is just you & your lover & nothing else matters.  They had pretty much the realisation of that to start with. 

Most first loves are doomed to fail because of the circumstances - you're too young, you're on holiday, etc  With these two, their love does not abate with time as seen by the reunion kiss. Their love really is a force of nature, it overcomes them.  Then they continue to meet, and when they do, it's just them together back with nature. That they have to lie to get there, have limited time & live without each other for the rest of the time pales into comparison when they're together again - a recreation of Brokeback & all that was perfect about it.  That continues for the most part untainted by pressures & stresses building up, so it means they never loose that feeling of being so into each other.  Just like a long distance relationship for the most part.  Lust is very importantly involved too, in that it re-inforces feelings of falling/being in love.   

Their love never gets to the stage of having a large component of loving companionship brought about my sharing everyday experiences together.  That kind of love is a prvilege to have and when you have it, you still have moments of being in love but that heady feeling of being high on love can't last.  Biologically it would be impossible anyway  - our brains & nerves would fry from all those chemicals flying around!  But who doesn't yearn to feel that high?  There's nothing like it, nothing to beat it. 

And that's why I think I find BBM so romantic - I associate J & E with falling & being in love.  It evokes those feelings again & the passions that fortunately I have experienced in my life.  It's a credit to Heath & Jake that they were able to convey it so well, especially to a (mainly) straight woman like myself. 

nic
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