Author Topic: BBM and the sin of Sodom  (Read 14088 times)

Offline Impish

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2006, 10:26:57 am »
I admit that I do hold a certain amount of resentment towards Christians (this is experiential), and there may be some tarring with the same brush in how I express it from time to time.  For that I do apologise.  You talked in another thread somewhere about the difference between spirituality and religion, and on that point I whole-heartedly agree.  For me, connecting completely with spirit, and internalising the messages of compassion and forgiveness, supersedes any text or sermon.  In a way, I find evangelism to be a step in the wrong direction for humanity, although I acknowledge that you would feel differently.

I hope this post better states my thoughts and feelings with less derision?

Chris, I agree with you and admire your ability to write so calmly about it.  I see Christianity as a negative force in the world, and what makes it so insidious is that it's followers are largely good, well-meaning people.  They don't see the repercussions of a religion that teaches them that at their core of their being -- their very essence -- is "original sin." 

Christian leaders think they have a monopoly on morality and goodness, and therefore they can't see the harm that Christianity has done and continues to do.  It breaks my heart.
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TJ

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2006, 10:33:09 am »
The only reason that Lot, his wife and his two still-at-home never-dated-before daughters were saved from the destruction of Sodom was that Abraham was Lot's Uncle and had raised him.

Lot was not very righteous in the fact that the reputation of Sodom was well known before Lot even decided to leave the country of Cannan and move to the Plain of Jordan.

There was a raiding party of the Cities of the Plain and Lot and family were kidnapped with his good stolen. Uncle Abraham was asked by the kings of those cities to help them get their stuff back. Since Abraham was rich, he apparently had enough men for his own army.

When Abraham rescued Lot, who had been living in his encampment near Sodom, Lot did not stay outside of town. He moved to a house inside Sodom itself. Lot decided to move to Sin City instead.

One of the New Testament Epistle writers claims that Lot was righteous; but, the author of Genesis doesn't exactly portray him that way at all.

TJ

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2006, 10:50:48 am »
Speaking as a somewhat formally educated theologian here, the religion of Christianity, aka "Christian Orthodoxy" as it is know formally by "Orthodox theologians" or "Orthodox Christianity" by common folks, was started in 325 AD by the Emperor Constantine. Constantine convened the first of the Seven Church Councils and he presided over the first one in Nicea in 325 AD.

That was the beginning of government being involved in the control of church leaders who had believed in Jesus the Christ. It was Constantine's idea that his selected group of "early church fathers" create a creed which supposedly summarized their doctrinal beliefs. According to some sources, which I don't have current documentation on, the early church in the 1st 3 centuries did not think a creed was necessary; they believed faith alone was enough.

It was also his idea that they compile an anthology of books which were supposed to have been in the Pre-Jesus Period and also written during the first Century AD by the followers of Jesus the Christ. It took around 60 years or so before those "fathers" could even finally decide on what should be in that which we call a "Bible." Some of the accepted, aka canonized, works quote for sources which they rejected. In the short Epistle of Jude, the archangel Michael is disputing with the Devil over the body of Moses. The source of that was apparently from a work which was Jude's source called "The Assumption of Moses."


TJ

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2006, 09:45:58 pm »
I subscribe by snail mail to the Wittenburg Door magazine. It is actually a Christain version of Mad Magazine and the National Lampoon combined and the church group which publishes it is actually Pentecostal. I first found out about the magazine way back in the 1970s when I was a graduate theology student at Oral Roberts University. One of the students brought the magazine to the class and even the professor thought it was quite funny. Unlike Oral Roberts who was an undergraduate seminary college drop-out, all of my professors had doctorates and the lower ranking faculty who taught my other courses all had at least a master's degree. I even had two degrees in Education from a state college before I attended.


http://www.wittenburgdoor.com/

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Offline kirkmusic

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2006, 03:26:41 am »
As interesting as the original post sounds, I know how these conversations usually go on TOB and can't bring myself to check it out.  This thread however has been most informative.  Thanks all.

TJ

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2006, 04:26:03 pm »
As interesting as the original post sounds, I know how these conversations usually go on TOB and can't bring myself to check it out.  This thread however has been most informative.  Thanks all.

You are welcome, kirkmusic.

While I know to which BbM discussion board the initials "TOB," refer and that I am even registered over on it; I never really got involved in much discussion there. I don't remember being very involved, even if at all, with a discussion about Sodom and BbM.

I know as much as I do about Sodom in the Bible because of my own study and formal theological educational background. I don't always agree with the educated with Doctorates theologians who are openly gay either.

Offline Impish

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2006, 07:25:41 pm »
Does TOB mean "that other board?"

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slayers_creek_oth

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2006, 07:27:45 pm »
Does TOB mean "that other board?"

Other or old....

Offline kudzudaddy

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2006, 08:11:11 pm »
This is from TOB/IMDb - I thought it was pretty intersting.  I've copied the OP.  Check out the link if you want to see the rest.


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/42206750

BBM and the sin of Sodom   
 
 by - pastorfred 1 day ago (Sun Apr 30 2006 08:15:36 )  Ignore this User | Report Abuse 

 Great, Yaad...  this is one of my favorite threads from Imdb...  Pastorfred is a wonderful man and I try never to miss a post of his.

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The Biblical theme of the sin of Sodom figures largely through the movie, but it's not what you think, and its meaning to the story is surprising.

The Bible story is told in the 19th chapter of Genesis, and it is widely misinterpreted as a condemnation of anal sex. Even the word, "sodomy," is used to signify anal sex. That interpretation is totally wrong, however, as told in Ezekiel 16:49: "Neither did she (Sodom) strengthen the hand of the poor and the needy." The sin of Sodom was a lack of hospitality, the victimization of the vulnerable. It was a capital crime in ancient Sodom to give aid to the needy or the stranger. The men of Sodom thought they could do as they pleased to God's messengers (angels) because they were outsiders.

In Brokeback Mountain, the sin of Sodom was committed by the murderers of the rancher, Earl, and by Ennis's father in laughing about it and insisting that his sons see the tortured and murdered body. The consequence of that dreadful sin was the tragic flaw in Ennis, his own internalized homophobia and his inability to integrate his love for Jack into the rest of his life.

One of my pet peeves is the misuse of the story of Sodom to mislead people into believing that homosexual acts are particularly offensive to God, that He destroyed ancient Sodom because of them. The offense, explicitly spelled out in Ezekiel 16:49, was not sexual. Scripture interprets scripture, and I feel that it is past high time to set the record straight. Maybe Brokeback Mountain can help.
 


moremojo

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Re: BBM and the sin of Sodom
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2006, 10:06:01 pm »
  I see Christianity as a negative force in the world, and what makes it so insidious is that it's followers are largely good, well-meaning people.  They don't see the repercussions of a religion that teaches them that at their core of their being -- their very essence -- is "original sin." 
Hi, Bill,

This lies at the very heart of my inability to accept Christianity as my path in life. I simply cannot accept the notion of original sin which lies at the very foundation of the faith. This naturally leads to my inability to accept Jesus as the sacrifice for this sin, because I reject the belief in the sin in the first place. I find Jesus admirable as a teacher and an example of moral living, but I can't make that further leap into believing on him as the one incarnation of the Divine, born of a virgin, come into the world as the blood-sacrifice for Adam's transgression. I actually have much less problem with the aspect of bodily resurrection, but interpret that in a different light from historical, orthodox Christianity.

I do not find any of the three major monotheistic religions of the West, all professing allegiance to the God of Abraham, appealing in their orthodox theology. I find some of the mystical strains in these faiths attractive, and there is no dearth of individual examples of faith lived in all three traditions that are inspiring and rejuvenating. But in seeking paths that address my heart's deepest yearning and hope, I have found it useful to look East.

Scott