Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - Danyelle-Dillon (Sun Feb 26 2006 14:56:53 ) Ang is brilliant. It appears he used wind to represent Jack's presence throughout the film. For example, in the beginning, when Jack arrives, there is the sound of rustling wind as his pick-up enters the scene. Also, when he and Ennis come down from the mountain, the sound of wind is quite heavy.
Ang has also used the wind to show us when Ennis is thinking of Jack, and this particular scene is almost heartbreaking when you hear the wind sound. Here goes:
It's the scene where Alma and Ennis are in the bedroom, and Alma starts rubbing on Ennis and trying to convince him to move to town. She tells him it won't be so lonely. "You don't want it to be so lonely, do you?" she asks. Ennis stops moving for a second, as if he thinking about what she said, then we hear the rustle of the wind; he closes his eyes (HE'S THINKING ABOUT JACK!). The next thing you know he's flipping Alma over and giving it to here like he gave it to Jack that fateful night. Brilliant.
Now, if only I can find out what representation Ang uses for Ennis!
Jake Gyllenhaal is NOT Toothy Tile until HE says so!
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - stitchbuffymoulinfan (Sun Feb 26 2006 15:06:57 ) I had heard about this metaphor too and frankly, it's probably one of the best and most beautiful in this movie (which means it's one of the best and most beautiful of all-time).
Listen for the wind in another pivotal scene you didn't mention... But you probably already know what it is.
This is such a touching metaphor. And this may sound even sadder but every time I feel wind, I think of Jack and this movie.
www.jlodown.com www.petitionspot.com/petitions/jlodownRe: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - J_Pickering (Sun Feb 26 2006 15:37:58 ) http://www.avid.com/profiles/051219_brokeback_filmcomposer.aspRe: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - NewHorizons37 (Sun Feb 26 2006 15:38:59 ) Other uses/mention of wind that people have noticed:
When Jack goes back to Aguirre the next summer to get a job, Aguirre says, "Look what the wind blew in."
I commented on another thread that when Alma goes down the stairs to head to work and Ennis is arguing with her, hot air is coming out of one of the laudromat vents. I was just noticing the authenticity, that it appears to be a real working laudromat not just a set (and based on threads about locations in Alberta where BBM was filmed, turns out it was real). But someone else commented on wind again -- that Jack has a presence in that scene. Could be: that scene shows the tension in the marriage and certainly Jack played a big part in that, even when not physically present.
Certainly the wind is prominent in the very final shot of the fields framed by the window.
Trying to remember others. . .
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - starboardlight (Sun Feb 26 2006 16:01:44 ) Another brilliant symbolic presence of Jack is in his room in Lightning Flat. Ennis opens the window and sits by it. The camera point of view changes to look at Ennis from inside Jack's closet. At this point we hear a rush of wind (Jack's spirit is here) and Ennis suddenly looks over in the direction of the closet as if he heard someone calling him. It's Jack calling him to come find the shirts.
There have also been discussions that Ennis is associated with the element of Earth. Alma with water, and Lureen with fire. I wish I could dig up some of those threads for you.
Not only in symbolic representation, but in personality as well. Jack as the air, is a dreamer, head in the clouds as it were. He shifts and change, like the wind, to deal with his situations. Notice he wears blue and black (colors of the sky) while up on the mountain. Ennis as the earth is a realist. His emotions are kept down, and only occasionally erupt violently. He withstands and endures his hardships, like the mountain always does. Like the earth, he is rarely movable. His color association while up on the mountain are always earth toned colors.
Thinking of Jack as air and Ennis is earth make the images on the postcards all the more significant. They were always images of a mountain against the sky. It's a metaphor of the two of them, earth and air, together, creating a beautiful image of paradise.
Really?
by - tryagain-5 (Sun Feb 26 2006 16:19:47 ) OK, you guys. Sometimes I read threads like this and think "wow!" I never noticed or thought about the symbolism. Then other times I think, ok, did Ang Lee really do this, or are people just finding symbolism that was really just coincidence. Was this wind thing really planned, or did they just say, hey, how about some wind here. Or it was actually a windy day when they shot the scene. The blue and the brown--Jack had a brown jacket that first summer on the mountain. He wasn't all blue. Know what I mean? How much is planned, how much are we just reading into things?
More Jack and the wind
by - balrog20-ressurected (Sun Feb 26 2006 16:36:09 ) In the second scene in Aguirre's trailor. Notice the ventilator fan over and behind Jack's head. It spins from the wind when the camera focuses on Jack.
ANd is that wind ever blowing violently while Ennis is sick in the alley? Sheesh!
I always wondered how come you never brought any trouts home...
Really?
by - starboardlight (Sun Feb 26 2006 16:40:41 ) UPDATED Sun Feb 26 2006 16:41:50
Ang Lee is too meticulous for all this to be coincidental. and i was talking about the color of their shirts in particular. I won't go to too much detail about that, since there have been quite a few threads about this in particular. The association with the elemental are really there. At one particular Q&A, Michelle Williams talked explicitly about trying to evoke the quality of water in her scenes with Alma. In most of her scenes, we can see water in it's many forms around her. She's washing clothes or dishes. The steam coming out of the laudromat vent, as she and Ennis argues. A blizzard snow outside as she confronts Ennis at Thanksgiving.
Really?
by - balrog20-ressurected (Sun Feb 26 2006 16:57:27 ) ANd don't forget the snow when she is playfully wrestling with Ennis after fallin off the sleds.
But how about the tremendous wind when she's hanging clothes? Ennis appears in the distance in his truck and we get a shot of Alma hanging clothes and nearly being blown away.
Is this supposed to be some kind of struggle between Ennis's wife and his bud as represented by wind? Which does he really want and which will he choose?
I always wondered how come you never brought any trouts home...
Really?
by - Danyelle-Dillon (Sun Feb 26 2006 17:02:21 ) UPDATED Sun Feb 26 2006 17:02:49
And of course, the beautiful rustling of wind in the ending scene!
You know, the other night was my fourth viewing and I had rough time holding it together at the end, when I heard the wind rustling before Ennis opens the closet. The first time, I cried and sat still listening to the music of the credits. The second time, I looked for more nuances and the ending was less emotional for me. Third time, I cried a little. But this time, I let it all out. The pain in Ennis' face at his lost love was just too much.
God, I love this film!
Jake Gyllenhaal is NOT Toothy Tile until HE says so!
Really?
by - balrog20-ressurected (Sun Feb 26 2006 17:05:01 ) "The blue and the brown--Jack had a brown jacket that first summer on the mountain. He wasn't all blue."
I think he actually had a green plaid sherpa jacket, not brown. I've never seen one that length either.
ANd in the reunion as I recall he wore a red shirt and tan vest with a light colored hat, may have been the same hat worn at the divorce meeting with the girls.
So no he didn't always wear blue.
I always wondered how come you never brought any trouts home...
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - fernly (Thu Mar 2 2006 18:34:42 ) UPDATED Thu Mar 2 2006 22:03:18
starboardlight,
<<Thinking of Jack as air and Ennis is earth make the images on the postcards all the more significant. They were always images of a mountain against the sky. It's a metaphor of the two of them, earth and air, together, creating a beautiful image of paradise.>>
Amazing insight, thanks!
I'd noticed the mountains of course, but never thought that, of course, the sky is always there too.
This tying together of Ennis' and Jack's elements, and the postcards, is so perfect.
It further explains the impact of the postcards, and also the power of the simple paintings of mountains against the sky that Ennis had in his various residences.
Ennis would have the two of them together, always, the best he could, hidden in plain sight.
"on the mountain, flying in the euphoric, bitter air"
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - valerie_lp (Thu Mar 2 2006 21:37:24 ) Jack's mental representation of Ennis might be music (sorry if anyone's said that). Jack and Ennis sing together on Brokeback, Jack's clearly thinking of Ennis as he dances with Lureen (and the country-western song drowns out their chitchat), and he has the radio on & is singing on his way to meet with Ennis after the divorce. Also in Mexico, as he picks out his Ennis lookalike, the Spanish song playing in the background translates to something about knowing you love me, but not being with me, etc.
Really?
by - starboardlight (Fri Mar 3 2006 00:10:59 ) I think he actually had a green plaid sherpa jacket, not brown. I've never seen one that length either.
ANd in the reunion as I recall he wore a red shirt and tan vest with a light colored hat, may have been the same hat worn at the divorce meeting with the girls.
So no he didn't always wear blue.
The color of the shirts are discussed quite thoroughly in CaseyCornelius's Classical Allusion thread. I didn't want to get into it too much as the OP is about Jack's wind element, but since there are questions, I'll give a quick summary.
The significance is focused on the shirts at first, not jackets. Hats have different symbolism altogether as well. We eventually see the focus on the shirts in the final scenes with Ennis' discovery of their two shirts hung together. Up on the mountain Jack's shirts were blue and black, the color of the sky. Ennis's two shirts are white with earth tone stripes and brown patterned. These are their only two shirts, setting the colors of the sky for Jack and the earth for Ennis. When Jack finally made contact after four years, Ennis excitedly mails back "You bet." In this scene his shirt is a blue and brown pattern that weave in and out of each other, a not too subtle hint (once you realize the symbolism) of what Ennis has on his mind.
After they leave the mountain, their shirt colors change. Ennis takes up more blues in his clothing to remind himself of Jack. Often times, he'll wear a blue shirt but buttons up his jackets over them to symbolically hide the fact that he's always thinking about Jack. Jack however take up crimson (not quite ever bright red) and purple. CaseyCornelius suggests that they are the color of dried blood, Jack's souvenir from their fight that resulted from the lasso rough housing just before leaving the mountain. Crimson is the color of dried blood. Purple is the color of blood on blue (Ennis's blood on Jack's blue denim shirt). We first see Jack in crimson when he returns to Aguirre's office. We see that color on him when he's reunited with Ennis.
Those two color scheme are general trends and is not always consistent, but they appear too often to deny that those are the symbolism.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - wang_jude (Fri Mar 3 2006 01:56:58 ) I thought I was just bumping, but then I couldn't resist reading this thread..
OK, you guys. Sometimes I read threads like this and think "wow!" I never noticed or thought about the symbolism. Then other times I think, ok, did Ang Lee really do this, or are people just finding symbolism that was really just coincidence. Was this wind thing really planned, or did they just say, hey, how about some wind here. Or it was actually a windy day when they shot the scene. The blue and the brown--Jack had a brown jacket that first summer on the mountain. He wasn't all blue. Know what I mean? How much is planned, how much are we just reading into things?
I'm completely agree here tryagain! At times I'm just like you "WOW! So glad this board exists!! Never would I have 'seen', 'understood' certain scenes (and their symbolism) had I not read some of the threads here. But like you, I am wondering if we don't read too much into every little scene.
Still, reading the answers on this thread, made me go "WOW!" again! Awesome, the symbolism of all four characters. Never noticed the wind, but I did notice the water/snow with Michelle's character. I am going to see BBM again tomorrow night and I will try to see it all too. Though, focusing on all these details at each viewing .. .. makes me lose out on the 'bigger picture' so to speak.. Anyway, there will be plenty of occasions to watch BBM again, without having to 'detect' all these little important things..
Jack's mental representation of Ennis might be music (sorry if anyone's said that). Jack and Ennis sing together on Brokeback, Jack's clearly thinking of Ennis as he dances with Lureen (and the country-western song drowns out their chitchat), and he has the radio on & is singing on his way to meet with Ennis after the divorce. Also in Mexico, as he picks out his Ennis lookalike, the Spanish song playing in the background translates to something about knowing you love me, but not being with me, etc.
Valerie, although I like the idea of earth being connected to Ennis' character, I was thinking about this too! I think you nailed it! Music has certainly its importance in this film!
Gosh, I love this board! Thank you everyone!
"..it would be a sweet life.." - [J. Twist - BBM]
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - wang_jude (Fri Mar 3 2006 02:05:17 ) Oh and this is completely off-topic (off-thread rather) and has probably been discussed before - but with all the 'relgion-related' threads going on again, what's the significance of the discussion between Jack and Ennis when Ennis asks Jack what "Pentecost" is and Jack doesn't know. Saying that his mother did not explain it to him. And that it probably means they will all go to hell (I don't remember the exact dialogue) and when it ends with Ennis saying he hadn't had the chance to be 'a sinner' yet (I think it's all in one dialogue, isn't it?). Is the "Pentecost" thing just a reason to lead the discussion into Ennis' admitting he is a virgin?
I don't dare starting a new thread on it, because I'm sure it has been discussed before. But this board being SO HUGE, I don't have the courage to start looking for it. If someone knows and can bump the thread. Tx.
"..it would be a sweet life.." - [J. Twist - BBM]
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - Front-Ranger (Fri Mar 3 2006 06:56:22 ) Though I can see the association of Alma with water, it is pretty closely associated with Jack as well. Thus, he sang "Water Walking Jesus" to Ennis, washed his clothes in the stream, and provided the hot water to wash with and bathe his wounds. There is a big hint towards the beginning when Jack and Ennis set up camp: Jack brings buckets of water, while Ennis builds the fire (more on Ennis and fire another time). The sounds of the wind are well done in the film, but also the sound of water. Listen carefully, you can hear it distinctly in the scene where Ennis wakes up in the tent after the first night.
If you think these things are incidental, watch some of Lee's other movies. You'll see the same motifs repeated over and over. He is incredibly detailed.
Pentacost
by - tryagain-5 (Fri Mar 3 2006 07:06:38 ) I've wondered about that scene too. Maybe it is just showing that Ennis is a virgin (that's how I took that line anyway) or maybe it shows how much their friendship is developing--that they talk about so many different things. I doubt Ennis has discussed religion with Alma or anyone else in his life.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - Front-Ranger (Wed Mar 22 2006 13:57:40 ) We've all established that blue stands for Jack and brown for Ennis. Did you notice that at the very beginning there was a beat-up old pickup truck between Ennis and Jack, that was half-blue and half rusty bron color? Also, when the two herds of sheep get mixed up, the paint brands of one herd were blue and the other herd reddish brown.
Front-Ranger
"There ain't no reins on this one."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - RukiaCromwell (Wed Mar 22 2006 14:25:37 ) I must save this thread. It's absolutely brilliant!!!
"Humans are cowards in the face of happiness. You need courage to hold on to happiness."-KG
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder (Wed Mar 22 2006 19:01:35 ) What a fantastic thread! The connection between Jack and the wind sends shivers up and down my spine. Absolutely beautiful idea.
It allows Jack to turn into something of a ghostly presence (I mean this metaphorically) in the scenes following his death. I love the detail of the fan in Ennis's trailer at the end. I think it's obvious Ennis's memories of their love, and all the time he lost by constantly rebuking Jack's offer to stay, will haunt Ennis for the rest of his long life. He's only 40, after all, when Jack dies. Jack remains a permanent ephemeral presence to Ennis.
Also, in response to someone above who noted the sound of the wind in Ennis's bedroom scene with Alma (after their talk about moving to the laundromat)... I think it's really significant that as soon as they begin to have sex there's an immediate cut to Jack riding in the rodeo. The wind plus that cut creates a pretty clear picture of what Ennis is still thinking about.
I don't think it's too far-fetched to think that Ang Lee thought these symbols through carefully. I think it's what makes him an amazingly nuanced director.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - afhickman (Wed Mar 22 2006 19:18:22 ) If Jack is wind, then Ennis is fire. He is several times associated with fire, as when he falls asleep by the campfire and it goes out. He is most vulnerable at that moment, and that's when Jack calls him into the tent. When he is waiting for Jack, he expresses his impatience by smoking cigarettes and playing with his lighter. He has a volatile, fire-y personality, and is easily angered. He flies into rages and starts fights. Somehow I think the fire goes out for Ennis following Jack's death. He's a changed man, almost reflective. Perhaps he's beaten, but I think it's more that he's come to terms with himself.
"The Mountain Has Wings"
Article about the editing of Brokeback!
by - J_Pickering (Wed Mar 22 2006 20:15:35 ) Here is an article about the editing of Brokeback Mountain.
From Heartbreak to Triumph on Brokeback Mountain!
http://www.avid.com/profiles/051219_brokeback_filmcomposer.asp?featureID=945&marketID=Not a bad read on film editing
by - balrog20-ressurected (Wed Mar 22 2006 20:26:52 ) Good read into some of the people behind the film. It does seem like a commercial for the Avid Editing Envoirment though.
due to this film I've learned so much about film production. Like what is editing, cinematography, sound editing,and now I've learned about the Avid software.
Ain't nobody's business but ours.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - SuperBatMan (Wed Mar 22 2006 20:30:57 ) Yeah I got that same feeling about the bedroom scene with Alma and Ennis.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - fenway42 (Wed Mar 22 2006 20:41:30 ) <<Saying that his mother did not explain it to him. And that it probably means they will all go to hell (I don't remember the exact dialogue) and when it ends with Ennis saying he hadn't had the chance to be 'a sinner' yet (I think it's all in one dialogue, isn't it?). Is the "Pentecost" thing just a reason to lead the discussion into Ennis' admitting he is a virgin? >>
OK, now I'm embarrassed, I've seen this movie 3 times and cannot recall what Ennis said that indicates that he is a virgin.
Can someone refresh my memory? Thanks.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - naun (Wed Mar 22 2006 21:13:06 ) A tiny detail I just noticed. Remember how Jack and Ennis first get to know each other in a bar? Well, there's a bar opposite the Riverton post office where Ennis collects his mail. And in the window of the bar is a sign, "DRAFT". Draft as in beer ... or as in wind. (Or, indeed, as in a military callup, such as Jack potentially faces at one point.)
Next door to the bar is a cafe. Coffee has a set of associations of its own in this movie, but that's a subject for another thread.
Re:' Love Is a Force of Nature'
by - amandazehnder (Wed Mar 22 2006 21:34:11 ) I like the symbolism of Jack= Wind (and maybe Water too) and Ennis= Earth (and maybe Fire too) especially when you think about the movie's tag line. "Love is a force of nature." These symbols begin to seem more consciously deliberate.
It's fun to think of the ways that the idea of wind and earth/fire really do relate to the characters and their circumstances. For example, Jack always driving(blowing?) back and forth across the plains and mountains from Texas to Wyoming (and often not minding this much at all, even enjoying it). He's constantly in motion (also wanting their lives to move forward, to be flexible...etc.). The idea that the wind is invisible and ephemeral is immensely sad/romantic to me. By the end in his death, he becomes the disembodied symbol of love and the wind is a ghostly reminder of Jack's continued presence in Ennis's head. I like what others have written about the colors of their clothes, and the interweaving of these symbols in key places.
The movie becomes like a big long poem.
ps. During the religion talk Ennis says that Jack "might be a sinner" but that he himself hasn't had the "opportunity yet." Others have noted that Ennis looks Jack dead in they eye when he mentions the word opportunity. This is often used in arguments about the idea that Ennis actually fell in love with Jack first.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - CaseyCornelius (Wed Mar 22 2006 22:12:10 ) wang jude:
I had posted a thread back in December regarding the Water Walking Jesus and the Pentecost discussion, long since deleted.
The gist of it was that Jack is singing a favorite song taught to him by his mother which is symmetrically balanced with the song which Ennis sings to Jack as he holds him from behind in the dozy embrace flashback.
On the surface, I believe Jack is singing or serenading Ennis with this song not only to provide convivial evening entertainment, but also as a way of 'courting' Ennis. At a deeper level, the narrative and theological content of the song [which we hear only a portion of in the film and not at all in the story] would have to have dealt with the Biblical story of the disciples witnessing the miracle of Jesus walking on the water and his calling to the beloved disciple Peter to allay his fears, encouraging Peter to step out of the boat and join him on the water. It's a wonderful presaging of the relationship that Jack and Ennis are about to intiate. At an unconscious level the Biblical story comforted Jack in his childhood and he is using it to create a relationship of trust with Ennis.
But, Jack's mother apparently taught him nothing of the Pentecost even though he states that she believed in it. It is the moment in the history of the early Christian church when the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, descended upon the disciples.
And here's 'the kicker' which no one else seems to have stated and which makes it keenly applicable to this thread -- the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples with a rush of wind:
From Acts 2:1-2 [New American Standard version]
"And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - RukiaCromwell (Thu Mar 23 2006 03:41:20 ) This story and movie just keeps on elevating with all it's parallels, metaphors, and symbolisms.
"Humans are cowards in the face of happiness. You need courage to hold on to happiness."-KG
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - Front-Ranger (Thu Mar 23 2006 08:46:32 ) I'm looking forward to the coffee thread, Naun. And, "if you don't I will."
Another reference to the wind, so I'm not completely OT: When Jack shows up for the third summer at the foreman's trailer he says, "Well look what the wind blew in."
Front-Ranger
"There ain't no reins on this one."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder (Thu Mar 23 2006 17:15:14 ) UPDATED Sat Mar 25 2006 11:14:13
If Jack is the wind/ air and Ennis is the earth then maybe this is a new way to think about the title of the movie and the importance of the mountain idea. It seems safe to say that a mountain is where the earth meets or touches the sky (wind, air, etc...). Again, the Love is a Force of Nature tag line seems really important as sort of a "thesis" for the film.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - Front-Ranger (Sat Mar 25 2006 11:50:24 ) Yes, and many cultures have identified four Forces in nature: earth, fire, wind, and water. The interplay of these forces is what makes life interesting, but on the other hand, it makes life dangerous and not fair. In ancient Chinese thought, this is represented by the yin/yang or the Tao sign of the Tao te Ching body of thought. Tao te Ching roughly means the book of the Way of Nature.
Front-Ranger
"There ain't no reins on this one."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder (Tue Mar 28 2006 17:38:01 ) more for symbol lovers
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - sn093111 (Tue Mar 28 2006 17:59:47 ) love the ideas, bump!
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder (Tue Mar 28 2006 18:33:17 ) More thoughts...
In response to the observation above-
-"But how about the tremendous wind when she's hanging clothes? Ennis appears in the distance in his truck and we get a shot of Alma hanging clothes and nearly being blown away. Is this supposed to be some kind of struggle between Ennis's wife and his bud as represented by wind?"
Good idea. I think there are lots of parallels/ symbolic clashes between Jack and Alma as rivals of sorts. The sense of competition is most explicit from Jack's side when he says "You and Alma? That's a life?" During the "prayer of thanks" campfire scene. Alma's sense of competition - and of giving up to a rival - is obvious from the reunion scene onwards.
Jack with his blue color symbol is also somewhat symbolized by water (as is Alma, per Michelle's comments). Bathing in the stream while doing laundry after the first tent scene, rain outside of the tent when Ennis is carving the horse, etc. I think there's a thematic link between Jack doing his and Ennis's laundry in the stream and the scene where we see Alma washing clothes while the kids cry in the background. It shows us that Jack has already done these things for Ennis. Jack made his connection with Ennis first even though Ennis may have been engaged to Alma before meeting Jack. Jack even made love to Ennis first (made clear through the "I haven't yet had the opportunity" conversation).
Water is less dominant for Jack than wind. But wind and water are similar since both move, both are willing to change, are fluid and flexible, etc. The wind brings storms and lightning (the lightning that killed the sheep during Jack's first summer alone on Brokeback, Lightning Flat, the hail storm, etc.). When water from storms freezes it turns into snow, which both cuts short the ideal first summer on Brokeback, but also is associated with the one moment of happiness we see between Ennis and Alma.
People like to link Ennis to both earth and fire. Which makes great sense to me. But, I think it's more specifically a volcano than fire for Ennis. The erupting fireworks, the erupting emotions, etc. This is fire that comes from the earth...
I don't know quite where to go with all this. But, it's all fun food for thought.
And, yes, I do think this suggestiveness is all deliberate. Both Lee AND Proulx are so careful in the way they craft details that I am sure that we're meant to wonder about these things.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - lucasginn (Tue Mar 28 2006 19:25:17 ) The use of wind to signify Jack is a brilliant observation. The short story opens with Ennis awakening from a dream about Jack. The wind shakes the trailor, comes in through the cracks and gently rustles the shirts. The first paragraph of the story ends with the following:
"The wind strikes the trailor like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies, leaves a temporary silence."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder (Tue Mar 28 2006 19:55:34 ) Awesome, lucasginn.
"Ennis, riding against the WIND back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - latjoremekeed (Tue Apr 4 2006 08:18:50 ) >>When water from storms freezes it turns into snow, which both cuts short the ideal first summer on Brokeback, but also is associated with the one moment of happiness we see between Ennis and Alma.
Good one, Amanda! I hadn't thought of that.
I think Jack is wind and Ennis is earth, but water is their relationship. In the beginning, they cross a stream to get up the mountain. Ennis is standing in the river when he looks up, worried, at Jack riding on the mountain, and Jack is washing Ennis' shirt in the river after the first tent scene. When they go camping the day after their reunion, the first thing they do when they get there is jump joyfully into the water. When they get together over the years they are always near water. When they argue over Ennis moving to Texas, Jack walks away from the river while the current makes Ennis lose his grip on the pan. Someone mentioned a while back that the water gets progressively more still as the relationship goes on -- in their last meeting, it's a lake.
Note that Alma is washing clothes in water (and on Thanksgiving, dishes!) but it's INSIDE tap water, not a river or lake. Fitting, because almost everything between Alma and Ennis takes place indoors.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder (Wed Apr 5 2006 08:59:43 ) Hi there,
I really like that explanation of water. I haven't quite been able to pinpoint how it exactly fits in with Jack and Ennis. I like the idea that it represents part of their relationship (the skinny dipping scene is a great moment to point out). I think it might be a counterpoint to fire, which also seems to be an element in their relationship... or maybe Ennis's perception of their relationship. Someone somewhere (I think probably in the lost "Symbols" thread) noted that water might be the passage of time. I guess it's a shifting metaphor (not too surprising).
"Jack saw Ennis as night fire."
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - bryan_17 6 days ago (Fri Apr 7 2006 13:27:26 ) my favorite thread - bump
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - bryan_17 6 days ago (Fri Apr 7 2006 16:54:41 ) Anyone else notice how since Lureen is fire and Jack is the wind, the wind brings the flame down to nothing. And her wardrobe goes from bright red to dark red to little red to white..like a flame burning out
When Alma confronts Ennis its snowing outside. She is like water and turns to ice, hardens up, unable to deal with what shes seen and what her life is. When I think of Alma I think of characters from Requiem for a Dream, crueling up, sad, alone, confused.
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder 6 days ago (Fri Apr 7 2006 19:36:29 ) Ooooooo! Good ones bryan17!
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - WindySong 5 days ago (Sat Apr 8 2006 04:45:23 ) I hadn't thought of this with the music... nor had I read it. But now that I think about it, it makes total sense! Great post!
Love, Bre <3 <3
Re: Jack and the Wind (Spoiler-ish)
by - amandazehnder 2 days ago (Tue Apr 11 2006 06:10:43 ) Another interesting instance of the wind...
As Ennis waits for Jack to arrive prior to the reunion kiss he keeps getting up to look out the window. We see that things are quiet and peaceful outside with no wind (the stillness probably adds to the sense of frustration in waiting). But, when Jack arrives, gets out of his truck and looks up at Ennis on the balcony the filmmakers go out of their way to indicate that the wind has kicked up. Two little pieces of debris blow by Jack on the ground behind him. Also as Ennis is sitting inside and hears Jack's truck roll into the parking lot... the sound of the wheels on the gravel sounds a bit like a wind sound effect.
It's interesting how a lot of these wind moments are pretty subtle in the film. In the book the wind metaphor almost hits you over the head Proulx seems so deliberate with it.
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - Chaplin_fan 2 days ago (Tue Apr 11 2006 06:50:51 ) I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this (at least in this thread) about the Jack-as-wind theme, but did you not notice this: in the scene toward the end when Ennis was in Jack's childhood bedroom, when the camera looked to Ennis by the window, from the closet where the shirts were, that the wind was moving the sleeves outward? One could easily interpret that as if Jack were in there, calling to Ennis, at which point he entered the closet, found the shirts, and embraced them. Beautiful.
Good lord, just talking about it gets me choked up all over again, and I've seen the movie seven times.
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - bhall-25 2 days ago (Tue Apr 11 2006 07:47:59 )
I was just reading something that said that wind is a symbol of "God's breath" and often associated with the soul. That's cool when thinking about Jack as Ennis' 'soul' mate!
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - amandazehnder 1 day ago (Wed Apr 12 2006 18:12:43 ) Wow, I just thought of this... If Ennis had been able to scatter Jack's ashes on Brokeback, Jack literally would have been incorporated into the wind! This is assuming that he wouldn't have scattered them in water (which, admittedly is a possibility).
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - starboardlight 1 day ago (Wed Apr 12 2006 19:16:54 ) Wow, I just thought of this... If Ennis had been able to scatter Jack's ashes on Brokeback, Jack literally would have been incorporated into the wind! This is assuming that he wouldn't have scattered them in water (which, admittedly is a possibility).
or he would have spread them over the grounds up in the mountain, and jack would be incorporated into the Earth/Ennis.
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - afhickman 1 day ago (Wed Apr 12 2006 19:51:01 ) Or perhaps his failure to retrieve the ashes represents his transcendence of fire, which I believe to be his element. He finally conquers this flaw in his character when he erects the shrine to Jack. The ashes represent a fire that has been put out.
"The Mountain Has Wings"
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - amandazehnder 11 hours ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 08:36:52 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Ooooooo, you people are all so smart! Very excellent ideas.
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - starboardlight 10 hours ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 10:09:27 ) Or perhaps his failure to retrieve the ashes represents his transcendence of fire, which I believe to be his element. He finally conquers this flaw in his character when he erects the shrine to Jack. The ashes represent a fire that has been put out.
wow. please do start a thread exploring the idea of Ennis as Fire. For me, it's so well established in my mind that Ennis is Earth and Lureen is Fire, but I'd love to read your thoughts on this.
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - edd_joey 9 hours ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 10:32:31 ) i don't know if i'm right but in the very last scene after Ennis says "Jack i swear" and we see trough the window, in the field the wind is blowing (jack's presence)
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN: UNCROWNED CHAMPION!!!
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - amandazehnder 9 hours ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 10:44:19 ) Well if you think about the circumstances of cremation... this involves fire/heat turning a body into ash/dust/earth.
Also, since we know Jack was buried in Texas and up in his family's plot... he literally has been incorporated into Earth/ Ennis.
The wind in the grass at the end just knocks me out. Absolutely beautiful and haunting. It makes that relatively simple shot remarkable.
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - afhickman 9 hours ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 11:15:01 ) UPDATED Thu Apr 13 2006 11:21:38
I have posted elsewhere that I think the four principals roughly correspond to the four humours, as they are understood in literature:
Blood, like air (or wind, in the case of Jack), was hot and moist (sanguine)
Yellow bile, like fire (Ennis), was hot and dry (choleric)
phlegm, like water (Alma), was cold and moist (phlegmatic)
Black bile, like earth (Lureen), was cold and dry (melancholic)
sanguine = beneficent, joyful, amorous
choleric = easily angered, impatient, obstinate, vengeful
phlegmatic = dull, pale, cowardly
melancholic = gluttonous, backward, thoughtful, sentimental, affected
Obviously, it's not an exact linkup, but it's pretty close!
The four humours, then, roughly correspond to the four elements. An imbalance of the humours was said to lead to disease or mental instability. I believe that Ennis is the one character in the story who attains balance when he finally puts himself in a right relation to the people in his life that he loves.
"The Mountain Has Wings"
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - cd_amadeus 48 minutes ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 19:41:05 ) Interesting!
If it hasn't been mentioned, then I'm mentioning it now. During the scene where Ennis is talking to Alma Jr. at the end of the movie, there's a blue fan next to Alma Jr. Another Jack is wind/blue/black symbolism?
"I wish I knew how to quit you!"-Jack Twist, Brokeback Mountain
Re: Jack and the Wind; SPOILER
by - amandazehnder 38 minutes ago (Thu Apr 13 2006 19:50:52 ) Yeah, that fan really dominates the space. It's almost like Ennis is sitting there looking at Alma Jr. and Jack. There are electric fans and vents all over the place in the movie at key times. I do think they're extensions of Jack's wind association.
Other examples of electric fans/vents (many of these have been mentioned in other posts above, but this is sort of a summary):
-the vent fan behind Aguirre's desk that twirls when Jack enters the trailer (the "Look what the wind blew in" scene... the clearest example of all of this.
-the rather obvious vent over the stove top in Ennis's kitchen when he receives Jack's first postcard
-the laundromat vent that lets off steam near the girls' swing set during Ennis's argument with Jack (a man in a black hat also walks by in the background of this scene as Alma walks away)
-the huge fan in Ennis's trailer at the end
Has anyone else noticed other examples?
