Jack...not the swearing type?
by ScissorhandsRaineyluv (Sat Feb 17 2007 09:20:22 )
"Jack, I swear-" he said, though Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind.
Ok, last night I read Annie's short story again, and that line stuck out at me. For some reason in my mind I always added a 'he' in front of the himself, so I thought Annie was saying Jack never wanted him to swear, and Ennis wasn't the swearing type either. But last night I realized Annie was saying Jack wasn't the swearing kind, which struck me as odd. Doesn't Jack seem like he would be more of the swearing type, and not Ennis? I've always felt that out of the two of them, Jack would be the one who would want to hear/express verbal endearments, but Annie's saying he's not the type. I understand why Jack would never want Ennis to promise anything to him, out of fear he wouldn't commit to it. So could this be why he's not the swearing kind either? He was scared to make any type of promise/verbal endearment to Ennis, out of fear of rejection? Also, we never hear Ennis swear to anyone or anything throughout both the book and the movie, so can we take it as Ennis isn't the swearing type either, except for this one particular instance of making an oath to Jack? So what do you guys think?
"Should he tell her? Should he not tell her? He's torn, Georgie. This is drama." Ed Wood
Re: Jack...not the swearing type?
by BannerHill (Sat Feb 17 2007 09:42:58 )
Good point. I Always read that line as ENNIS not being the swearing kind, like you did.
Maybe it is a reference to the Code of the West, where a persons reputation is based on their actions, rather than what they talk about.
Maybe it is a further acknowledgement of the bond that existed betwen them; a bond that was real and tangible without the existance of documents and declarations.
Re: Jack...not the swearing type?
by balrog_ressurected_again (Sat Feb 17 2007 09:46:43 )
I thought book Jack was somewhat different than film Jack and this is one good example. Gyllanhaal's portrayal was sensitive, empathetic, and highly understanding of others.
I didn't get that from book Jack. He was more like Ennis in the book, stoic, more guarded, more hard edged.
Proulx's Jack would not be the type to expect anything from Ennis other than his company. While film Jack, although not demanding statements of commitment, would be the type to send out vibes saying "It would sure make me happy if you'd say these things"
Begone trolls...
Re: Jack...not the swearing type?
by ClancyPantsNasty (Sat Feb 17 2007 10:23:19 )
Hi!
Good discussion everyone.
Yes, balrog_ressurected_again is correct that story Jack has more of an edge than does film Jack. And I agree that the line from the short story is referring to Jack as not being the swearing type. But, I’d like to posit that while the short story paints Jack as “not the swearing type” with that particular phrase, the short story also paints Ennis as the swearing type because he, in fact, does say “Jack, I swear.”
This is part of the dichotomy not only between the film and the story, but between the characters themselves in the story. This makes each more multi-dimensional. Ennis is the one who could not commit to Jack to live together, yet, in the end, he swears to Jack. Jack wanted them to live together and Jack is the one who kept the hidden shirts for 20 years, yet, he was not the swearing kind. Ennis never stepped out with another man; Jack did. All of this just adds up to us understanding each man a little better, a little more fully, and some of it is good and some it… not so much so.
Re: Jack...not the swearing type?
by ScissorhandsRaineyluv (Mon Feb 19 2007 12:28:55 )
Sorry it took so long to reply back to my own thread!
Maybe it is a reference to the Code of the West, where a persons reputation is based on their actions, rather than what they talk about.
Maybe it is a further acknowledgement of the bond that existed betwen them; a bond that was real and tangible without the existance of documents and declarations.
Very good point BannerHill. Thanks.
Balrog, that’s a good point too. Actually, it’s hard to figure out Jack in the book, because Annie doesn’t spend too much time developing his character. Her focus is directly on Ennis, whereas the movie seems to give Jack (Jake) and Ennis (Heath)pretty much equal screentime. Gyllenhaal seemed to have added to book Jack’s descriptions by interpreting Jack as a bit of a softie, yet still maintaining a bit of an edge as well.
Clancy:
But, I’d like to posit that while the short story paints Jack as “not the swearing type” with that particular phrase, the short story also paints Ennis as the swearing type because he, in fact, does say “Jack, I swear.”
Well yes, that’s true. Actually, I meant to write to what extent is Ennis the swearing kind? In both the movie and the book Ennis hasn’t sworn anything to a person or to doing something, so I took it as the only time he swore anything was to Jack, after he passed away. So what I’m asking is, are we suppose to take it as Ennis in general swears, or is only the swearing type when it comes to Jack?
This is part of the dichotomy not only between the film and the story, but between the characters themselves in the story. This makes each more multi-dimensional. Ennis is the one who could not commit to Jack to live together, yet, in the end, he swears to Jack. Jack wanted them to live together and Jack is the one who kept the hidden shirts for 20 years, yet, he was not the swearing kind. Ennis never stepped out with another man; Jack did. All of this just adds up to us understanding each man a little better, a little more fully, and some of it is good and some it… not so much so.
Very nice points. It makes me connect so much more to each one, because they aren’t so simplistic…Ennis’s ability to swear/ Jack’s inability to swear contradicts their actions and needs, yet their contradictory /ambiguous behavior is what makes them human and not cookie cutter characters.
Thanks for the responses everyone! It put everything into perspective.
"Should he tell her? Should he not tell her? He's torn, Georgie. This is drama." Ed Wood
Re: Jack...not the swearing type?
by Clyde-B 2 days ago (Sat Mar 17 2007 14:18:55 )
Annie Proulx writes very tight condensed prose that leaves you with bare bones stories that have to be expanded by the reader's mind to be complete.
She may have intentionally written it this shorthand way to convey that neither was the "swearing kind".
