The Pentecost scene, again..

[RouxB]

The movie, while pretty closely following the book, is not the same. Even using just the book, there is nothing to say the singing and the sexing didn't happen on the same night. The description of the singing does not have a time frame attached to it-only that it was an activity that they engaged in and the "but he favored a sad hymn, "Water-Walking Jesus," seems to imply that he sang it more than once.

[j.U.d.E.]

I know that Ennis being a virgin or not is hot topic and very much subject for discussion  but my point for this thread was rather, that there we have two young hot guys who don't do 'girl talk' at all. Something you would expect them to do. So, somewhere, subtly (is that a word?) they kind of hint to each other, that girls are not important to them. Even if they do it unconsciously, I think one 'gets' the other.. If you know what I mean..

~ j U d E

[serious crayons]

Jude, it's a great observation! I had noticed that Jack doesn't respond when Ennis his marriage plans, but I hadn't thought about how Ennis must have noticed it, too, and registered its meaning at some level. Same with other "girl talk." (In fact, the only time they discuss anything even remotely related to sex, it's about a coyote's testicles!)

This should be cataloged among the subtle signals that the tent scene doesn't just spring out of nowhere.

[Aussie Chris]

Ummm, could we have an explanation as to what "girl talk" is in this context?  I mean, are we talking REALLY subtle, so that I missed it?

[serious crayons]

Ummm, could we have an explanation as to what "girl talk" is in this context?  I mean, are we talking REALLY subtle, so that I missed it?

I guess I phrased that a bit confusingly. It's not that they DO engage in girl talk, it's that they DON'T. Actually, it's Jude's observation: he noted that they never talk about girls, as you might expect straight 19-year-old men to do, and he's saying they probably noticed this about each other and got a clue.

[Kd5000]

Yes, lack of girl talk does seem perplexing here... And yes, I do believe in the 1950's and 1960's, boys talked alot about girls, if they weren't losing their virginity at age 15 as they do now, they still (well some of 'em) had alot of hormone activity for the opposite esex.

Ennis doesn't know Jack's "situation." The queer thing would be so out there, especially given gay sterotypes of the early 1960's, I'm sure it wouldn't have crossed Ennis's mind that Jack might be gay. 

Of course, Ennis doesn't seem the prying type. If Jack want's to volunteer info, Ennis will listen, but that's about it.  They do discuss their plans to get each get their own place, but maybe that's to let off steam about having to work for their S.O.B. boss.   

I wouldn't expect Jack to ask Ennis to many"general girl questions," even if Jack was straight. It's just one of those things, after you find out a guy is engaged, you usually ask questions about "Alma" in this case. I noticed Jack wasn't too inquisitive about Alma.

I would, as a polite courtesy, "oh, she sounds nice, gotta a photo of her."  Of course, Jack might be in denial that he's falling for a guy whose getting married. Don't want to hear that.  Means their relationship can only go so far.

[serious crayons]

I'm sure it wouldn't have crossed Ennis's mind that Jack might be gay. 

It might not have crossed his mind consciously, but he must have registered the possibility on some level. For example, the night after the bear encounter, he notices that Jack's ministrations are exceptionally tender and caring. If Jack were straight, nervous about physical boundaries with another man, he might have just handed him the wet cloth in a gruff manner. As it is, Ennis gets self-conscious and annoyed that Jack crossed the line, snatches the cloth away. He probably doesn't go, "Hmm. Wonder if Jack is gay?" because he has trained himself never to think directly about that stuff. He probably doesn't think about the whole interaction for more than a second or two. But that doesn't mean he isn't absorbing the information.

And definitely under other circumstances, Jack would have politely responded to the Alma information. And Ennis might have discussed her more often. It's like when you're in a relationship but become interested in someone else, you may not lie about your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse, but you might not talk much about them, either.

[j.U.d.E.]

It might not have crossed his mind consciously, but he must have registered the possibility on some level. For example, the night after the bear encounter, he notices that Jack's ministrations are exceptionally tender and caring. If Jack were straight, nervous about physical boundaries with another man, he might have just handed him the wet cloth in a gruff manner. As it is, Ennis gets self-conscious and annoyed that Jack crossed the line, snatches the cloth away. He probably doesn't go, "Hmm. Wonder if Jack is gay?" because he has trained himself never to think directly about that stuff. He probably doesn't think about the whole interaction for more than a second or two. But that doesn't mean he isn't absorbing the information.

EXACTLY! Really! The bear incident (Ennis coming back to camp) is one very good point!

But that doesn't mean he isn't absorbing the information.

Perfectly said! I think so too.

Their silent curiosity in each other starts even much much earlier and is very obvious sometimes - it's a lot in the eyes (see thread about 'eye contact') and some of their behaviour/attitude/movements in the first 20/25 minutes of the film - very subtle 'checking out'/'finding out' moments..

~ j U d E
latjoreme - I'm a he with an 's'.. 

[Toast]

It is interesting that you missed the fact that Ennis knew the SALTY words to the Strawberry Roan.

Wouldn't we like to hear him ahum some of it?

How would that fit in with the discussion of the Pentecost and virginity?

see lyrics attached

[serious crayons]

latjoreme - I'm a he with an 's'.. 

Woops!!! Jude, I'm so sorry. I've been seeing your name since way, way back in the imdb days, and somehow all this time I have been picturing you as a guy. You were cute as a man, if it's any consolation! (Gotta start paying attention to those little symbols in the upper-left.)

It's funny how if you haven't seen people's photos, you somehow develop images of them anyway, which probably have no relation to reality.