Author Topic: If you were Alma............  (Read 21810 times)

TJ

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2006, 11:22:22 pm »
Here's what is in the book in relation to the thankgiving scene.

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Ennis went back to ranch work, hired on here and there, not getting much ahead but glad enough to be around stock again, free to drop things, quit if he had to, and go into the mountains at short notice. He had no serious hard feelings, just a vague sense of getting shortchanged, and showed it was all right by taking Thanksgiving dinner with Alma and her grocer and the kids, sitting between his girls and talking horses to them, telling jokes, trying not to be a sad daddy.

Annie Proulx's Ennis was not exactly happy when he had that dinner at Alma's and the grocer's.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2006, 09:18:04 am »
I know this is straying OT on a thread about Alma, but I've never been really sure I understood what Annie Proulx means by "Ennis went back to ranch work"--emphasis on the "went back."

Does this mean he wasn't doing ranch work--except part time on weekends in order to keep his horses--until after Alma divorced him, and he felt free to go back to the kind of work he loved? (And I've always believed that Ennis genuinely did love ranch work.)

In describing the divorce, I seem to remember that AP also says one of the things Alma objects to is Ennis's "yearning" for low-paid ranch work.

So what was he doing all those years after they moved into that apartment in Riverton? Was he on the county road crew--and didn't go back to cowboying until after Alma dumped him? Or was he doing ranch work? Does "Ennis went back to ranch work" mean he just "went back" to doing what he had been doing?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

TJ

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2006, 07:40:55 pm »
In the movie, Ennis worked for the state highway department BEFORE they all moved to Riverton.

But, it was not that way in the book.

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When the Hi-Top folded they moved to a small apartment in Riverton up over a laundry. Ennis got on the highway crew, tolerating it but working weekends at the Rafter B in exchange for keeping his horses out there. The second girl was born and Alma wanted to stay in town near the clinic because the child had an asthmatic wheeze.
   "Ennis, please, no more damn lonesome ranches for us," she said, sitting on his lap, wrapping her thin, freckled arms around him. "Let's get a place here in town?"
   "I guess," said Ennis, slipping his hand up her blouse sleeve and stirring the silky armpit hair, then easing her down, fingers moving up her ribs to the jelly breast, over the round belly and knee and up into the wet gap all the way to the north pole or the equator depending which way you thought you were sailing, working at it until she shuddered and bucked against his hand and he rolled her over, did quickly what she hated. They stayed in the little apartment which he favored because it could be left at any time.


Ennis' (layman's version) psychological profile does fit that of a person who has a self-esteem problem which can be related to a learning disability (he was "farsighted enough to dislike reading anything except Hamley's saddle catalog") and even one's sexual orientation.

He did actually like to work with horses on a ranch and that his why he owned more than one horse to use for work and pleasure.

While Ennis did work hard and he was not lazy, he was not a stable person at all. It also might have had to do with the fact that he really was not a people person and did not like to be around very many people at one time. His uneasiness around other people could have been related to the traumatic experience in seeing the body of Earl when he was around 9 years old.

Offline kirkmusic

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2006, 04:16:51 am »
"Once burned" is only one example of Ennis trying to blame somebody else for his shortcomings.  He does it in the coffee shop scene with Cassie.  "Looks like I got the message, in any case."  I think there was one more example somewhere but I can't recall at the moment.  It's something he needs to work on if he doesn't want people reading him the riot act now and then as a result.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2006, 09:28:26 am »
It's something he needs to work on if he doesn't want people reading him the riot act now and then as a result.

LOL, Kirk. It's hard to imagine Ennis "working on" anything like that. However, rude as "once burned" might have been, I don't think the divorce is entirely the result of Ennis' shortcomings. He is completely to blame in the relationship with Cassie, though, especially for breaking it off so insensitively. You know, I've never thought that line made total sense. "Looks like I got the message" -- and yet it's Cassie who has taken action and is dating someone else.

One more thing in regard to an earlier question. I do think it's the "Jack Nasty" remark that really sets Ennis off -- his face changes and becomes much more enraged at that very moment. However, it's impossible to tell whether it's because of the insult or because of the implications or both.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2006, 10:43:54 am »
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You know, I've never thought that line made total sense. "Looks like I got the message" -- and yet it's Cassie who has taken action and is dating someone else.

Hey, Katherine, I'm not sure I see why that line doesn't make sense to you. Cassie has just told Ennis that she's left all these messages for him--which he's plainly ignored--and now he sees her with another guy. That's the message--she's dating someone else. It does seem to be an example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own actions, or inactions, as the case may be.

I'm beginning to realize I've never really paid enough attention to this scene--in particular, the implication that Ennis has been ignoring Cassie after his confrontation with Jack. Next time I make/find the time to watch the DVD, I really need to study Heath's face before Cassie runs out and Carl follows her. The stage directions in the screenplay read as follows:

[Cassie] Starts crying as she rushes off to CARL, who waits by the door. CARL looks back at ENNIS; ENNIS shoots CARL a murderous look.

Hunh? Does he? And why? It's just been made abundantly clear that he doesn't want Cassie, so why should he resent Carl?

Anyway, I think the most spectacular example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own shortcomings is in the confrontation with Jack:

"It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothin'. I'm nowhere."

Well, excuse me, but Ennis has made life choices. He has chosen to stick to low-paying work that he can quit at short notice to go off with Jack, but it's terribly unfair to blame that on Jack.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2006, 12:27:17 pm »
One more thing in regard to an earlier question. I do think it's the "Jack Nasty" remark that really sets Ennis off -- his face changes and becomes much more enraged at that very moment. However, it's impossible to tell whether it's because of the insult or because of the implications or both.

Agree Kat.  Ennis is upset, but he's keeping his temper and keeping to his lame cover story.  He only explodes when Alma bad-mouths Jack.  It's as if Alma is blaming Jack.  He's the nasty one.  And Ennis doesn't take kindly to people bad mouthing those he cares about, even Alma ("Now you shut up about Alma, this ain't her fault.").

Offline serious crayons

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2006, 06:59:09 pm »
Hey, Katherine, I'm not sure I see why that line doesn't make sense to you. Cassie has just told Ennis that she's left all these messages for him--which he's plainly ignored--and now he sees her with another guy. That's the message--she's dating someone else. It does seem to be an example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own actions, or inactions, as the case may be.

I'm beginning to realize I've never really paid enough attention to this scene--in particular, the implication that Ennis has been ignoring Cassie after his confrontation with Jack. Next time I make/find the time to watch the DVD, I really need to study Heath's face before Cassie runs out and Carl follows her. The stage directions in the screenplay read as follows:

[Cassie] Starts crying as she rushes off to CARL, who waits by the door. CARL looks back at ENNIS; ENNIS shoots CARL a murderous look.

Hunh? Does he? And why? It's just been made abundantly clear that he doesn't want Cassie, so why should he resent Carl?

Anyway, I think the most spectacular example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own shortcomings is in the confrontation with Jack:

"It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothin'. I'm nowhere."

Well, excuse me, but Ennis has made life choices. He has chosen to stick to low-paying work that he can quit at short notice to go off with Jack, but it's terribly unfair to blame that on Jack.


Jeff, in answer to your first question, the line seems to stop one step short of logical -- he got the message, she took the action. What he should say is "Looks like I got the message and that, in return, you got my message (which was implied by my lack of reponse) (and so are now dating Carl)." But that would be kind of an awkward line, I guess.

I've recently come to realize that the Cassie scene is big. NOT because Ennis shoots Carl a murderous glance. He doesn't. What he does do, right after she says "Girls don't fall in love with fun," is suddenly look up, stop chewing pie and stare into space for several long moments, as though deep in thought. During that time Cassie flees, which he pays little attention to. He's indifferent to Carl; he only said that because, as you said, he was lashing out angrily to deflect blame, as he is prone to do. My interpretation that upon hearing the word "love" he realizes something.

Speaking of which, you're right that the lake scene line is a classic example. He undoubtedly knows he is more to blame for the unsatisfactory situation. But Ennis' lines are much better this way than if he admitted his guilt. Especially following "Why don't you then? Why don't you just let me be?" the implication is that even though Ennis knows they're both miserable and that it's his fault, he is helpless to take any action himself, either to live with Jack (which he's made clear he won't do) OR to break things off, which he can't do because he loves Jack. Though, I now suspect, he may not have thought of it as love before hearing Cassie use the word. So you may have been right about that.

Jeff, just as you encouraged me to buy StS, I would encourage you to take 134 minutes and watch the DVD. I hadn't watched it myself since it was in theaters, so about two months, until last week, when I rented it and watched it twice. I knew all the lines, but found I had remembered a lot of the visual stuff -- especially facial expressions -- differently. Also, I felt more observant, more aware of details and subtexts, after all this time discussing.



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2006, 09:06:17 pm »
Jeff, in answer to your first question, the line seems to stop one step short of logical -- he got the message, she took the action. What he should say is "Looks like I got the message and that, in return, you got my message (which was implied by my lack of reponse) (and so are now dating Carl)." But that would be kind of an awkward line, I guess.

Thanks. Wouldn't that also imply that Ennis was consciously sending Cassie a message? Oh, sure enough, he was sending her one by not responding to her messages, but was this a conscious plan of action? I'm not sure. I'm not defending him here. I've just seen guys do this sort of thing--lie to themselves that they're procrastinating when they really just don't have the balls to break up with someone.

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I've recently come to realize that the Cassie scene is big. NOT because Ennis shoots Carl a murderous glance. He doesn't. What he does do, right after she says "Girls don't fall in love with fun," is suddenly look up, stop chewing pie and stare into space for several long moments, as though deep in thought. During that time Cassie flees, which he pays little attention to. He's indifferent to Carl; he only said that because, as you said, he was lashing out angrily to deflect blame, as he is prone to do. My interpretation that upon hearing the word "love" he realizes something.

I'm coming to realize that, too. Heretofore, when I've thought of it all, I just regarded is as a necessary wrapping up of the Cassie subplot. But there's clearly more than just that going on here.

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Speaking of which, you're right that the lake scene line is a classic example. He undoubtedly knows he is more to blame for the unsatisfactory situation. But Ennis' lines are much better this way than if he admitted his guilt. Especially following "Why don't you then? Why don't you just let me be?" the implication is that even though Ennis knows they're both miserable and that it's his fault, he is helpless to take any action himself, either to live with Jack (which he's made clear he won't do) OR to break things off, which he can't do because he loves Jack. Though, I now suspect, he may not have thought of it as love before hearing Cassie use the word. So you may have been right about that.

Jeff, just as you encouraged me to buy StS, I would encourage you to take 134 minutes and watch the DVD. I hadn't watched it myself since it was in theaters, so about two months, until last week, when I rented it and watched it twice. I knew all the lines, but found I had remembered a lot of the visual stuff -- especially facial expressions -- differently. Also, I felt more observant, more aware of details and subtexts, after all this time discussing.

Oh, not to worry, I have the DVD. I bought it on the release day, and I did my gay civic duty and paid more than I would have had to pay elsewhere by buying it at our local independent GLBT bookstore. And I made a real, if private, event out of watching it for the first time. I just haven't been able to make myself a block of two and a half hours to watch it again since (I hate watching movies on video in "chunks"). I could be watching it now, but here I am. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

TJ

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Re: If you were Alma............
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2006, 09:13:34 pm »
"Once burned" is only one example of Ennis trying to blame somebody else for his shortcomings.  He does it in the coffee shop scene with Cassie.  "Looks like I got the message, in any case."  I think there was one more example somewhere but I can't recall at the moment.  It's something he needs to work on if he doesn't want people reading him the riot act now and then as a result.

I would ask why the screenplay writers even had to create that scene in the first place. They took one sentence found in the original story and made several chapters out of it.

And they did the same thing with Jack, too, in regard creating a chapter dedicated to another woman, whom they named LaShawn.