What do you think of Spanking?

[dot-matrix]

There are a lot of parents here, I've  had some interesting talks  with  a few of you about parenting.  There are also a lot of us who have never had children.   BUT, we've all been children who have been disciplined.   SO....

What's you opinion on corporal punishment. Tell us your thoughts both pro and con.  If you're con what alternatives do you suggest, what works for you?   If you're pro tell us; How you determine what constitutes a spanking offense?   If you've been on the receiving end of spanking, how did it make you feel?  Did you learn anything positive from the esperience? Or did you feel humilated and degraded.... I'd like to know.

I was a child that spanking did nothing for except to embarass me and make me angry.  I personally don't feel it ever taught me anything except to be more circumspect in my actions...in other words it made me sneakier.

[David In Indy]

I answered "parental choice" believe it or not.

Personally I do not believe in spanking or other physcal punishment, but I'm also not a parent, so I really don't have any sense of the different challenges facing parents; especially in today's world.

My parents strongly believed in physical punishment. This was not unusual in middle America during the 1960's and 70's. Most parents back then physically punished their children. Both my mother and father believed in spanking. Mom would simply turn us over her knee and swat us with her hand. Dad would normally make us go out back and cut a switch off one of the bushes back there. If we came back in with an unacceptable switch (too small), Dad would go out there himself and find a suitable one. You didn't want him doing this either. His switches were ALWAYS big and they hurt... BAD!! Sometimes he would use his belt. The switch was better in my opinion because those metal belt buckles would leave a nasty welt. And how many swats? It just depended on what we did. If memory serves me, it was never less than 5 though.

If we were caught cussing or lying, Mom made us suck on soap. A bar of soap was inserted into our mouths and we sucked on it, without a drink of water, until mom was satisfied. In the early 70's they developed liquid soap and there was a liquid soap dispenser in each bathroom as well as in the kitchen. Mom would place some liquid soap on her index finger and then rub it thoroughly on the roof of my mouth so I couldn't get it out. No drinks of water were allowed and no spitting either. I would sit there for 15 or 20 minutes and taste the soap. I've always said it didn't do me any good either, because I still cuss and swear like nobody's business. 

When my sister and I were toddlers, Mom kept us on leashes when out in public. I had a blue leash and my sister had a pink one. We wore a harness around our chests, and the leash attached to the harness. I remember that even at such a young age, I felt embarrassed when I wore the leash. I can't really blame Mom for using it though. My sister and I had a tendency to run off and explore things when she wasn't looking.

I don't know Dottie. I'm not sure if these corporal punishments work or not. I don't think they really did me any good in the long run. But I sure do remember them! Sometimes I think parents hit and swat their children simply because it makes THEM (the parent) feel better. They are frustrated and hitting the source of the frustration feels good. I hate to think like this, but I have a feeling I'm probably correct. 

I really do believe it is the natural instinct of a child to try and please his or her parents. When a parent voices displeasure to the child, I think in most cases this is probably enough of a punishment, although a time out in the corner or canning them to their bedrooms may also be necessary in certain situations. But never hitting, or other forms of punishment such as sucking on soap. 

Good question Dottie! Thanks for posting it! 

[souxi]

I don't know Dottie. I'm not sure if these corporal punishments work or not. I don't think they really did me any good in the long run. But I sure do remember them! Sometimes I think parents hit and swat their children simply because it makes THEM (the parent) feel better. They are frustrated and hitting the source of the frustration feels good. I hate to think like this, but I have a feeling I'm probably correct. 

Your quite right David. The thing is, most parents hit in anger as a last resort. The angrier they get, the harder they get. The more the child screams, the harder they hit them to shut them up, and so it goes on. I also think parents hitting their children makes them nothing more than a big bully. It just sends them a message that says: "I,m bigger than you and if you don,t do what I tell you, I,ll hit you and make you do it". I also honestly think that there are people in the world who only have children so they can have something to yell at. My neighbours are a prime example of this. They are always screaming at their children, and they have no qualms atall about regularly telling them both to fuck off. The kids are about 7 and 5. They also shut them in their rooms and leave them to scream. If they keep on too long, the mother, (for want of a better word) thunders up the stairs and smacks the pair of them hard.
I remember last year, in the summer. The little girl was at school and the little boy, who was at the time too young for school was playing out in the garden by himself. I have no idea what he did,  but all of a sudden, his dad decided he had dome something wrong. He went flying outside, dragged him upstairs and smacked him. Now he must have hit him really hard because that child screamed and screamed and screamed. It made my blood run cold. I don,t have to hit my children to discipline them. They know by the tone of my voice to do as they are told. I simply take away a treat etc if they misbehave. There is nothing worse than being out somewhere and seeing some parent smack their child and watch the poor little mite screaming, with tears running down it,s face and seeing a big hand print on the backs of it,s legs. I think it,s cruel and should be against the law, punishable by prison and a heafty fine, and possibly having the children taken away from you.

[Penthesilea]

I voted "It's child abuse."

Spanking, hitting, slapping, beating children is wrong. Period.

Every person has the right of physical inviolability and to be treated with respect. I think most people will agree on that. But many forget this guideline when it comes to (their own) children.

Is it acceptable to hit other adults when they truly annoy you? - No
Is it acceptable when a man hits on his wife? - No.
Why should it be acceptable to hit children?


Voting "child abuse" I have things in my mind like Dottie and David recieved. Planned and concious actions by parents who think they have the right to corporal punish their children. That's child abuse in my mind. It is now and it was then, but to cut their and other parents some slack, I know times were different and it wasn't seen as child abuse then. It was more normal.

I wouldn't use the term "child abuse" when it happens not regularly, when the corporal punishment is not too strong (a slap, not half a knock-out beat) and when it is not done with "premeditaion". When a parent just loses it and slaps the child once or twice on the hand or butt - it's still wrong but I wouldn't call it child abuse.
In the end, we're all just human and we all make mistakes. And parenting can be a very hard business. I have three children and I know the feeling of helplessness and utter despair when NOTHING seems to work (at some days). And I know the feeling when you want to hit your children, when you think there's no other way now.

And yes, I'm guilty, too. In the earlier years, it happened twice that I put my oldest daughter over my knee and hit on her butt three or four times. I was simply overstrained, desperate and it just happened. I never ever would have thought this is possible because I feel really strong about not spanking children.
Afterwards I felt so guilty and so mean. It was a horrible experience for both of us (but more for my daughter of course) and I can't take it back. But what I can do is to never let it happen again. And although I've been very, very tempted many times I managed to survive the last nine years without corporal punishment against my children and without getting completely nuts. And yes, some days it was just surviving. But it get's better as they get older.

[dot-matrix]

I don't want to give anyone the impression that my brother and I were beat for misbehaving.  We were NOT, we had loving and supportive parents.  But there were rules to live by and responsiblities to be shouldered.   I only have one memory of my Mother ever raising her hand to me and it was on a occassion when I was mouthing off something terrible and I called her a rude name.  Nothing foul, but something said in the school yard alll the time but certainly not anything you'd ever say to your Mother.  She slapped me across the mouth so fast I was shocked.  The shock of that slap alone was enough that I can honestly say I never spoke back to my Mom again.  It is also the only corporal punishment I ever received from her and the only that, in hindsight, I think I richly deserved.

Ordinarily my Mother punished by withholding priviledges or long wished for things.  When that failed then spankings were my Father's area.  He would sit us down and talk to us about what we had done, how disappointed he was in us (which hurt me more than anything else and would have had the desired effect if left at that while I stewed in my room) and the he explained how this was going to hurt him more than it hurt us....my unvoiced thoughts were always "yeah right!"... but I know I was never struck hard enough to bruise or leave a mark and never more than 3 times and always on the buttocks only.  It was humiliating, degrading and as I said it really pissed me off.  But it never hurt me and it never caused me to think for one minute that my parents didn't love me....Oh I got mad at them and conjured up  "they be sorry one day" scenarios in my mind but it was all just so much childish brouhaha.

I don't know what I would do if I had an unruly child to deal with along with all the dangers, temptations and stresses of modern life.  I grew up in a much simplier time, when it was safe to walk to school.  Teddy and I would take off in the morning after chores and not see home again until dinner time and my Mother never had to worry,  Kids can't have that kind of freedom today.  That lack of freedom combined with parental pressures I think is making both parents and kids a little crazy today.  I agree with David about there seeming to be more out of control kids around with ineffectual parents just shusshing them.  I don't know what the answer is, I don't believe it lies in corporal punishment but at the same time I don't know what it is.  That's why I'm interested what everyone thinks.

[ifyoucantfixit]

  

Well I dont like to pull the age and experience thing here, but some children demand more than simple time outs, and revoking of priviledges.  They get out of hand, as the terminology goes.  There is lots and lots of gang and other types of behavior being vented on others and society, primarily from children that have never been taught the perimeters of behavior, and acceptance. 
 
I have raised four of my own, and ten grandchildren, and helped friends and relatives with countless others.  I have meted out very very little corporal punishment in my time.  I have slapped the mouth as Dottie mentioned, and that is very effective also for an upstart mouth that only gets worse as time goes by, if left unabaited.  I have spanked, (not beaten) on rare occasion, when the threats no longer held the hoped for effect.

But i am more than well aware there are some kids that need a spanking from time to time, or those that have never had one that society in general would have benefitted from them having.  Its a narrow street to walk, but a necessary one I feel...I dont believe its child abuse.  I think  to allow a child to be a terror is just as much an abuse.  lots of kids never need it at all.  Others however do...IMHO

[delalluvia]

I voted "for" spanking.    Too many kids today are out of control.        Part of the beauty of the spanking is just the threat of one.     My Mom would say :" You'd better behave or your father will spank you when he gets home".    That was usually enough of a threat t oget us to behave.    LOL

And I have no memory of ever being spanked!   

Ditto.  I agree it should be a parental option.  It has its drawbacks like any technique (e.g. as a loner child, timeouts would have meant nothing to me.  Sit in my room?  Sure, I'll read, color, write stories.  Where's the punishment?).  Spankings work on some kids and not on others.  It sure worked on me.  I have memories of being spanked, but it was never in anger and only happened 3 times. 

I was a fast learner. 

Like nut, after that, it was just the threat that kept us in line.

[dot-matrix]

WOW we've had 136 views of this poll but only 11 votes.  Interesting.  Well I thought y'all might like to see the results of the same poll, held on another website.  This one had 5038 respondents and like ours invited both parents and non parents to vote.


Child abuse, plain and simple:         0.7%   36 votes
Not abuse but should be outlawed by the government:        0.4%   20 votes
A parental choice with benefits and drawbacks:    70.1%       3532 votes
A good strategy for instilling discipline:    28.5%       1435 votes
No opinion         0.3%        15  votes

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Total Votes:  5038

In another seperate Poll on the same site, this one labled just for parents,  it finds that 43% of parents responding find spanking an effective and acceptable form of punishment.

[ifyoucantfixit]

      That Dottie seems to be the norm around here.  Like selling a house.  Lots of lookers, and no

buyers.. I had over 160 people look at my campaign issues poll..only seven people voted...I dont know if

some people dont care about the heavy issues, or if they dont want others to know their opinion for

whatever reason...

[injest]

Well the problem is that spanking is not black or white. I mean...there are graduations....for example, your toddler is trying to pull something over on top of himself so you say "NO!" and pop that diaper enough to startle him....teaches him that "NO!" means stop and look at mom. Taking a board and leaving bruises...that is child abuse. Spanking a small child with your hand or switch in the privacy of your home is vastly different than slamming a preteen to the floor of a public store and slapping him, yelling "Who the Hell do you think you are?" until he cries out "Nothing! I am nothing! I am nobody".

I believe popping a diaper with an open hand is ok. I think spanking in private is ok.

other than that no. I don't.

and I don't want anyone else spanking my child. I remember a teacher in fifth grade that would assign twenty questions a night as homework. She would paddle you for every question you got wrong. I only got that paddle once...but I still remember her rubbing that paddle over my behind and the utter humiliation I felt. One boy couldn't take it and jumped up and ran away one day. We never saw him again. I think she did it because of some sick enjoyment...not to help us.