Am I the only person...

[serious crayons]

I've somewhat reluctantly had to give up assigning any significance to the "rehearsed" element in Lureen's conversation with Ennis. I've seen it pointed out that she is, after all, Jack's widow and undoubtedly has had to tell that tale many, many times, regardless of whether her story is the truth or a lie. Now here comes Ennis's phone call, presumably a couple of months after the fact, and she has to tell the story all over again.

Jeff, I could agree with this! Yay! It's so refreshing when we agree. (Actually, that's probably more or less what I meant -- not that she's deliberately telling a lie, necessarily, but that one way or another her speech has been delivered many times.)

I can see why your friend's email would be so discouraging. And I guess a lot depends on how important you feel it is to bring him over to our side. But it's really hard for me to believe that anyone (who's not homophobic) can't be blown away by the movie -- from a "literary" perspective, if nothing else -- once they see what it contains. One of my friends liked it OK but complained that it was "too slow," and that there were "no sparks" between Jack and Ennis prior to TS1. Well, to me those were both clear indications that she just wasn't noticing subtleties. She is a journalist, and journalists tend to look for meaning on the surface. But once I pointed out a few of the nuances (well, and mentioned that I'd seen it seven times and haunted the imdb message board), she started to get it.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I can see why your friend's email would be so discouraging. And I guess a lot depends on how important you feel it is to bring him over to our side. But it's really hard for me to believe that anyone (who's not homophobic) can't be blown away by the movie -- from a "literary" perspective, if nothing else -- once they see what it contains.

Katherine,

That pretty well puts the situation in a nutshell. What's so disheartening, and I guess, why, at bottom, I have not responded, is the sense that I have that if my old classmate, a middle-aged, urban, urbane, well-read gay male with two graduate degrees, doesn't "get" Brokeback Mountain, nothing I could possibly say to him is going to make a difference, so why spend my precious and valuable time beating my head against a wall? If he doesn't "get it," it's his loss. I suppose I could simply say something to the effect that I found the film richly complex, deeply nuanced, and heartbreakingly beautiful, and I'm sorry he doesn't see it that way.

Jeff

[serious crayons]

Katherine,

That pretty well puts the situation in a nutshell. What's so disheartening, and I guess, why, at bottom, I have not responded, is the sense that I have that if my old classmate, a middle-aged, urban, urbane, well-read gay male with two graduate degrees, doesn't "get" Brokeback Mountain, nothing I could possibly say to him is going to make a difference, so why spend my precious and valuable time beating my head against a wall? If he doesn't "get it," it's his loss. I suppose I could simply say something to the effect that I found the film richly complex, deeply nuanced, and heartbreakingly beautiful, and I'm sorry he doesn't see it that way.

Jeff

Give him specifics! Talk about the metaphors and subtleties and ambiguities! Tell him it is so complex and well-crafted that after all these months there are still people arguing over the meaning of individual lines!

Maybe it's just my usual optimism, but I can't see how anyone like the guy you describe, once presented with the fact that everything in the movie has some deeper meaning, from shirt colors to water to buckets to paper bags, could fail to appreciate it as a masterpiece at least in a literary sense. I don't analyze other movies to the extent I have this one, but doesn't that alone make Brokeback pretty unusual?

But you're right, it's his loss. And depending on the nature of your friendship, you might not want to take the time.

[ednbarby]

Hey Barb,

I'll give you ONE MILLION DOLLARS if you let me watch Brokeback Mountain with your husband.  Just one night.  Then everything goes back to the way it was before.... or does it?

Heh heh.

Sorry, Mr. Redford.  No sale. 

[starboardlight]

Give him specifics! Talk about the metaphors and subtleties and ambiguities! Tell him it is so complex and well-crafted that after all these months there are still people arguing over the meaning of individual lines!

Maybe it's just my usual optimism, but I can't see how anyone like the guy you describe, once presented with the fact that everything in the movie has some deeper meaning, from shirt colors to water to buckets to paper bags, could fail to appreciate it as a masterpiece at least in a literary sense. I don't analyze other movies to the extent I have this one, but doesn't that alone make Brokeback pretty unusual?

But you're right, it's his loss. And depending on the nature of your friendship, you might not want to take the time.

on one hand, i think talking in details about those nuances might sell someone over to the idea that this film is a masterpiece. but on the other, what was most impressive to me was that emotional devastation that I got from the film, even before I got around to analyzing all the details. that's something that if they didn't get from it, they never will, I suspect. so for me, I just don't bother trying to win them over. if people want to discuss, I'll tell them about all the things that I love, but I don't invest in trying to convince any one.

[serious crayons]

You're absolutely right, starboardlight. It's fairly easy to argue someone into an intellectual appreciation of the movie by pointing out the subtleties. I have been successful at it myself. I am baffled that anyone can not be emotionally overwhelmed by the movie, too, but if they don't get that on their own I doubt they could be persuaded by argument. And ultimately the emotional aspects are the most important.

[Jeff Wrangler]

on one hand, i think talking in details about those nuances might sell someone over to the idea that this film is a masterpiece. but on the other, what was most impressive to me was that emotional devastation that I got from the film, even before I got around to analyzing all the details. that's something that if they didn't get from it, they never will, I suspect. so for me, I just don't bother trying to win them over. if people want to discuss, I'll tell them about all the things that I love, but I don't invest in trying to convince any one.

Essentially, my position is the same as Starboardlight's. And you don't get a toaster for converting anyone to BBM. 

[serious crayons]

No toaster, but you do get the satisfaction of defending a film you love.

[Jeff Wrangler]

No toaster, but you do get the satisfaction of defending a film you love.

Absolutely. It's just that in this case I doubt it would do any good. (I spent 13 months in school with this guy. I know how he can get!  )

[opinionista]

...who gets really upset when other people assume things about this film? I'm asking this on the Tremblay section because I know you folks are quite rational and you are very dedicated to the film.

I have been fixated on this film for a long time now.  However, I get so angry when people assume things that can't possibly be real or realistic in regard to this film.  One recurring theme is when people assume to hear lines which aren't in the film and rationally wouldn't be there.  Secondly, they keep bringing up that Ennis wasn't gay (which some say is debatable, I say isn't).  Thirdly, they bring up numerous scenarios about how Jack died.

I am sick of it.  I'm tired of being angry and debating with people.  I wish I could quit by passion about this film but I can't.

I can't believe it get so irritated about these things.  Am I the only one?   

It used to bother me too, but then I realized this movie is way too realistic and some people just can't deal with some of the topics it conveys. So I came to the conclusion that they come up with those silly excuses to explain why they didn't like the movie because they don't know what else to say. BBM isn't for everyone.