Author Topic: Black Hats, White Hats  (Read 61028 times)

Offline mouk

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2007, 04:50:54 pm »
Quote
I agree with much of what you've said, but in one thing I disagree: Jack proposing a move to Texas was not a slip. The topic may have come from Ennis' side, not initiated by Jack. But he saw the chance and was determined to use it. Look at his face and his tone, the casual manner was only pretended (when he shrugs while mentioning it). And Ennis knows it. That's (one of the reasons) why he blows up right the next second.
It may have been spontanously, but notwithstanding deliberate.
Missed chance, I'd say. May have been better to take Ennis' concerns more serious instead of using them for his (absolutely legitimate) goal. Jack was trying to take advantage of Ennis' revelation.

Yep, Pentesilea, on second thoughts, I totally agree with you  :)

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #101 on: January 18, 2007, 02:23:33 am »
Jack would want to have a clean shirt on for Ennis, as well as Ennis for  Jack. Remember Ennis checking his shirts as he packed them for that very same trip?

I always get the sense that Ennis is checking to see that the shirts are not actually clean, but merely clean enough by his standards.

These two are hot for each other's sweet, salty stink.  I don't think Tide is their preferred scent.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #102 on: January 18, 2007, 08:08:49 pm »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Cameron

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #103 on: January 18, 2007, 09:03:58 pm »
Penthesilea, Latjoreme, hi! Thanks for the welcome, I am enjoing this thread.

The bus station - like you I always found it strange that he was in a bus station of all places. Especially considering that he seemed to have his favourite bar in town. It was the mention of  men with black and white hats buying tickets (I have not spotted them yet, look forward to yet another detail to take in) that gave me this idea, as, like you, I have always been of the opinion that by that time Ennis was ready for some change. Probably going somewhere metaphorically rather than geographically for the time being (eg giving more of his time to Jack), but who knows, perhaps he was finally starting to give more consideration to that cow and calf operation?

Hi,

I just wanted to jump back in to the bus station discussion.  That was something that I wondered about.  To me it was one of the most heartbreaking images, to see Ennis sitting all alone in the bus station with no other people at the tables at all.  I first thought how incredibly sad, that this is what his life is now reduced to.  But then I decided that he chose to be in a place like that, he could have gone to the bar that he was in before, but he chose to be there all alone.  In my viewpoint the breakdown at the lake left him so depressed and in such despair that he didn't want to be in a place where he could have met other people.  I think that at the lake finally admitted to himself that he couldn't live without Jack, but maybe he felt like Jack left him alreadly.. (I wish we knew what they said after Ennis was crying in Jacks arms.)   I think he chose to be in a place where he was totally alone because he was so broken and depressed at that point.

I believe thatthe conversation with Cassie changed him, when she said "I don't get you ...."  I think that made him realize what he was doing to people and then he decided to change, and mailed the postcard to Jack.

 :-X :-X :-X



Offline serious crayons

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2007, 02:16:59 am »
I always get the sense that Ennis is checking to see that the shirts are not actually clean, but merely clean enough by his standards.

Yes, you don't really need to sniff a clean shirt -- it's hanging in the closet all fresh and washed. You sniff the ones you pick up off the floor or dig out from the dirty clothes pile. Don't ask how I know that.  ;D

  I think that at the lake finally admitted to himself that he couldn't live without Jack,

This is how I see it, marlb42.  :-\

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2007, 12:56:46 am »
I think that at the lake finally admitted to himself that he couldn't live without Jack, but maybe he felt like Jack left him alreadly.. (I wish we knew what they said after Ennis was crying in Jacks arms.)   I think he chose to be in a place where he was totally alone because he was so broken and depressed at that point.

I believe thatthe conversation with Cassie changed him, when she said "I don't get you ...."  I think that made him realize what he was doing to people and then he decided to change, and mailed the postcard to Jack.

 :-X :-X :-X


I really like your post marlb42.  I feel like the bus stop scene is the first scene were we see what Ennis's life will be like for the rest of his life (presumably).  Since by this scene Jack is gone from his life permanently.  You're so right about wondering *how* the boys left things after that intense hug after the lake-scene fight.  It's one of the most brilliant aspects of the flashback.  Besides the flashback being breathtaking in its own right... the timing of when it's placed in the film is critical!  It's because of the flashback that we don't hear the end of their argument/ conversation.  And, the look on Jack's face is so hard to read once the flashback is over, that it leaves tons of room for varying interpretations of what passed between them.  Did Jack actually quit Ennis?  Did they kiss and make up? Etc.  Because of the flashback we won't really ever know the extent of the kind of guilt/ regreat that Ennis is now left to deal with by the time the bus stop scene happens.   It's a nice filmic way to suggest the idea of the "open space between what he knew and tried to believe."  In this case though, the open space indicates the ambiguity in what the viewer knows and tries to believe.

I've never heard the suggestion that the look on Ennis's face at the end of his discussion with Cassie might mean that this is the moment that he decides to send the last postcard.  That's a great interpretation!  I've tended to see it as the moment that he clearly articulates (in his own head) the idea that he and Jack were in love.  I think deep down Ennis has known this for a long time... just not articulated/ admitted it to himself so clearly.  Of course, I think this is spurred by Cassie's open use of the word "love' here.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2007, 03:08:13 am »

The bus station - like you I always found it strange that he was in a bus station of all places. Especially considering that he seemed to have his favourite bar in town. It was the mention of  men with black and white hats buying tickets (I have not spotted them yet, look forward to yet another detail to take in) that gave me this idea, as, like you, I have always been of the opinion that by that time Ennis was ready for some change. Probably going somewhere metaphorically rather than geographically for the time being (eg giving more of his time to Jack), but who knows, perhaps he was finally starting to give more consideration to that cow and calf operation?



I'd never heard or thought of the idea that Ennis' bus station visit being a sign of him wanting to go further -- either literally or figuratively -- in his relationship with Jack. We've talked about the two guys standing at the counter, one in a white hat and one in a black hat, as representing a hypothetical Ennis and Jack going off on a life together. But maybe there's even more going on. Come to think of it, why is Ennis in the bus station? Is Riverton that devoid of cheery coffee shops or cafes that you'd have to go to such a bleak place for a piece of pie? Or is that a sign that Ennis is ready to "make a move"? I've always leaned toward thinking that Ennis wanted to improve their relationship when they met in November, so I'm partial to this theory. Thanks, mouk!


This is a great thread! I never thought about the meaning of Ennis being in a bus station at this point in the movie, but your explanations make a lot of sense. Thanks!
Here's the picture of the two cowboys (black hat - white hat) buying the tickets. I wonder what Ennis thought when he saw them, if he saw them at all, of course. He did seem to be totally caught up in his own world...  :-\

'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2007, 08:58:24 am »
Here's the picture of the two cowboys (black hat - white hat) buying the tickets. I wonder what Ennis thought when he saw them, if he saw them at all, of course. He did seem to be totally caught up in his own world...  :-\

The white-hatted cowboy is wearing a light-colored plaid, Ennislike shirt, and the black-hatted one is wearing a blue shirt and has black hair! I hadn't noticed that before.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #108 on: March 22, 2007, 09:25:47 am »
Yeah, posting these still images is certainly helpful in being able to pick out some of the subtle aspects of these details.  I hadn't really thought about shirt color/ hair color, etc. regarding those background cowboys before either.

What do we think about the person (who seems to have a black hat) that walks passed the window of the bus stop (I think quite early in the bus stop scene)?  I've always seen that figure as very ominous.  Like the first visual cue that Jack is no longer with us.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2007, 12:01:11 pm »

What do we think about the person (who seems to have a black hat) that walks passed the window of the bus stop (I think quite early in the bus stop scene)?  I've always seen that figure as very ominous.  Like the first visual cue that Jack is no longer with us.

I haven't yet found a picture of that guy. But i did find this 'Jack' passing Ennis by, right after the big fight with Alma about her taking an extra shift at the store. Poor Ennis, as if he needed any more reminding about why his life was so miserable at that time.

'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'