Author Topic: Black Hats, White Hats  (Read 61501 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #120 on: January 11, 2008, 02:12:00 am »
all this time and I never realised they were buying tickets, heading towards the sweet life!!!!!!!!!

that is very very good

LOL, I'd never noticed the candy before.  So, it really is just amazing how many new details there are to discover all the time.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline ednbarby

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,586
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #121 on: January 11, 2008, 10:40:30 pm »
Here's a new detail that just came to me the other night as I lay awake in bed, not having seen the movie in months...

Did you ever notice that throughout the movie, Jack is always on the right side of the screen when he and Ennis are intimate?

Think about it:  TS1 (while he's sleeping, anyway), TS2, post-TS2 romp, Reunion, Motel Siesta... Jack is on the right, or on Ennis' left.

But in the final Tent Scene, Jack is sleeping on the left side of the screen (on Ennis' right).

Coincidence?  I think not.  ;)

No more beans!

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2008, 07:57:57 am »
BARB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D
So great to see you here. Missin ya, girl  :-*


Here's a new detail that just came to me the other night as I lay awake in bed, not having seen the movie in months...

Did you ever notice that throughout the movie, Jack is always on the right side of the screen when he and Ennis are intimate?

Think about it:  TS1 (while he's sleeping, anyway), TS2, post-TS2 romp, Reunion, Motel Siesta... Jack is on the right, or on Ennis' left.

But in the final Tent Scene, Jack is sleeping on the left side of the screen (on Ennis' right).

Coincidence?  I think not.  ;)




That's a great obversation, albeit their positions are not continous in those scenes. For example, in TS2 first Ennis the one on the right; and during the Reunion the camera angle switches repeated times, so that sometimes Ennis is on the right, sometimes Jack.











But I think this doesn't take away from your observation; we had other examples where Ang Lee mostly stuck to one pattern (with symbols or whatever) - but not always. Maybe it would be too easy otherwise  :).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 09:55:16 am by Penthesilea »

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2008, 02:13:42 pm »

we had other examples where Ang Lee mostly stuck to one pattern (with symbols or whatever) - but not always. Maybe it would be too easy otherwise  :).

I think it's definitely very fair to say that Lee and the cinematographer (Rodrigo I guess) established visual patterns pretty early in the film.

One of the big examples of straying from a pattern (back on the hat topic) is Jack's hat colors.  It always bugs me that his hat color fluctuates.  I mean, I think we all think of Jack as the black hat cowboy... but sometimes (and in important scenes too) he wears tan.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Gabreya

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #124 on: April 27, 2008, 01:04:03 am »
I always thought that the black hat and white hat are the symbolisms of Ennis and Jack's differences, despite they do in fact attract. Black and white colors will always go well with eachother. Plus, black hats isn't always worn by the bad guys. Lol!

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #125 on: April 28, 2008, 03:33:22 pm »
I always thought that the black hat and white hat are the symbolisms of Ennis and Jack's differences, despite they do in fact attract. Black and white colors will always go well with eachother. Plus, black hats isn't always worn by the bad guys. Lol!

This is a very interesting point about the black and white hats...  we may have touched on it in the past, but I don't recall a huge discussion about the traditional cowboy symbolism of "black hat = bad guy" and "white hat = good guy."

I wonder if there's something to be analyzed there?  Why would Jack be in the "bad guy" hat?  I've always seen the black hat as a metaphor for being a "black sheep"... or a rebel/ outsider.  But, that's not exactly the same thing as a "bad guy."

And, as for the white hat... it makes sense to me that Ennis would wear the white hat, because to me it signifies "protagonist" as well as the traditional "good guy" idea.

Maybe as far as the '63 summer goes, this has to do with experience.  Maybe Ennis is in "virginal" white (he's still a little naive and of course literally loses his virginity with Jack).  And, maybe we really are supposed to see Jack as more experienced (even sexually) and thus the black hat.  Jack is also a form of temptation for Ennis, which may factor into this to a degree.

It's hard to think very literally in terms of "good" and "bad" when it comes to Ennis and Jack though.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

retropian

  • Guest
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #126 on: December 24, 2008, 09:27:41 pm »
I've been reviewing threads on this board that I've missed. I don't know how I missed this one because the subject is one of my favorites. I haven't finished reading thru all the posts but there are lots of great ideas.

My own idea of what Jacks black and Ennis's white hat I posted long long ago on IMDB. In the Western film genre the good guy, the hero frequently wore a white hat and the bad guy a black hat. So much so that it became a cinematic trope, the audience would know who the hero was and who the villain was instantly, especially in a silent film. In later westerns of the 50's and 60's the good guy is usually just trying to make an honest life for himself as a rancher, or farmer, or just trying to keep the peace in his little community as the sheriff. The black hat is the one who starts the plot moving. He's the one who instigates the action. The white hat is threatened in some way and must respond in an effort to return things to the way they where before the black hat showed up. And usually the white hat would get the girl too in the end, so he'd have it all. The white hat would also come to a greater understanding of himself and those around him; the woman he loves the other inhabitants of his community and even of the black hat.
In BBM Jack being the black hat instigates the action which drives the film forward. He is the 1st to put out his hand to Ennis and introduce himself, he leads the way to the bar, he draws Ennis out of his shell, he instigates the sex, he instigates the reunion, he suggests the cow and calf operation. Ennis in contrast as the white hat is simply trying to live his life as best he can and to him that means conforming to what western society claims as a proper life: Married with kids, a hard worker competent at what he does. Heterosexual.  He needs to be the stoic cowboy. Jack throws a wrench into all of that and Ennis must reject him, at least at the end of the summer of '63. Later Jack reappears and Ennis engages with him, again he rejects him, but only partially and tries to have it both ways. In the end Ennis wind's up where he started; alone and still poor. But he does have his daughter's. He's also learned something about himself and Jack along the way.

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #127 on: December 25, 2008, 11:38:56 am »
Keep of the good work, mining these old threads, Ian.  This is one of my classic favorites!
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

retropian

  • Guest
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #128 on: December 31, 2008, 04:22:50 am »
Keep of the good work, mining these old threads, Ian.  This is one of my classic favorites!

Yeah, from time to time I like to go back and read thru old threads such as the IMDB rewind threads. It's fun to get reacquainted with old posts from when BBM was still in release. I'm always surprised and happy to encounter ideas people had presented that are either new to me, or that I've forgotten.

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Black Hats, White Hats
« Reply #129 on: January 14, 2014, 03:52:00 pm »
I can't believe the last post in this classic old thread was in 2008!!  :o Wow, it's amazing how well-established the Brokie community is at this point.

Well, I'm reviving this thread because I had a genuine question come up about the tradition of cowboy hats in movies.  In a completely different type of discussion with non-Brokies over on facebook, it was mentioned that there is a long tradition in western movies of the "good guy" rarely losing his hat or having his hat knocked off even in action sequences. 

I don't know if this is accurate, I don't really know enough about a wide variety of westerns to know.  So, I was wondering if anyone else had ever heard this?  And, I also wonder if it is the case... if it could have some interesting ramifications for BBM?  I'll have to go back and watch the movie to see if and when various characters lose their hats (or keep their hats in improbable moments).

Also, I apologize if this has come up before.  I haven't re-read this entire thread before posting this question.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie