TOTW 05/07: Should Ang Lee have showed more affection between Ennis and Jack?

[Penthesilea]

Mornin, folks and happy new week 

This week we have another first: we don't discuss within the movie/story, but try to step back and have a look from the outside.
We have been profundly moved by Ang Lee's movie, by the love between two characters, which shows so clearly to us. But yet, others didn't see the love so clearly, and with all the restraint Lee put into his work he left us with the feeling of "never enough".

Should Ang Lee have showed more affection between Ennis and Jack?

What would have been the effects if he had? Isn't this "never enough" feeling part of the fascination? Would it have been marred, had Lee shown more affection? How about non-Brokies? People who saw the movie, but weren't hit by it like a ton of bricks?

Tell us what you think  .

[SFEnnisSF]

All I ever wanted, and hoped for, was a brief 5-10 second clip of them being affectionate up on the mountain the first summer.  Show them sharing a cigarette.  Showed Jack cuddled up behind Ennis with Ennis arms around Jack around the campfire.  Hell, even 3 seconds would've been enough.

Lots of folks said "they were just friends" or "they didn't see the love".  This left a lot of folks "not getting the movie".  I do feel that Ang was a little reserved in this here.  I swear, I think a 3, 5, or 10 second clip as I mentioned above would have made a world of difference to those who didn't "see" the love and to those of us who "wanted more"!

[Brown Eyes]

I perceived tons of chemistry between them from the beginning... I think they have boat loads of chemistry.  I even think Jake and Heath have lots of chemistry in real life (in interviews, etc... like on Oprah). 

And, yes, I've always thought Ang Lee should have shown more affection... at least a moment or two of affection... during the later camping trips after the reunion.

I've always thought that after the reunion the film focused *too* much on the lives of the wives, children, Cassie, etc.  That aspect of the film is just so different from the story where the attention is always on Jack and Ennis.

[ifyoucantfixit]

          I agree with Amanda, in that I could have had less focus on the family, but it would have then been more difficult to sell to the general public..They needed to see the devastation they were causing by their illicit behaviors.
          I agree with Eric partially too.  I would have liked to see the affection and love that kept them returning again and again to each other after the reunion.  I felt that they only showed the negativity of the relationship, after the first time, when Jack stroked Ennis's neck when he was showing such sorrow.
          But as to showing the affection and not sex part only for a few seconds,, I thought that the scene that Aguirre watched was entirely that.  Horseplay, fun and affection all rolled into one..But I will have to say I thought it was cut way too short...I would have liked to see a few more seconds of that. " Never enough time never enough."

[Brown Eyes]

I think the sense that editing out some moments of affection might have been done to appeal to a "general audience" is one of the more annoying implications of this issue (of the lack of affection in the second half of the film and the over-emphasis on the families). 

The one aspect of it that I think works artistically, is it gives the relationship between Jack and Ennis a sense of privacy.  It makes it feel like after the reunion, we're not invited to watch them anymore and that their interactions are purely for them.  Some of the edits are so striking... as in the camping trip after Jack finds his blue parka and is cooking corn waiting for Ennis.  The camera cuts just as the two of them make contact.  And after that all the later camping scenes show us the bare-minimum for us to understand that their relationship was progressing.  I appreciate the idea that their relationship is given space and is not sensationalized in the later parts of the film.  Somehow, I also think it sets the dozy embrace flashback up for being extra-romantic since it's the first really romantic physical contact that we've seen since the reunion (the very brief and somewhat ominous TS3 moment aside).

So, I can argue both pros and cons for the lack of affection in the later part of the film.  I do find it irritating if the decision was done for a marketing reason.

The contrast between the first and second halves of the film is definitely striking though.

[Brown Eyes]

The dozy embrace was that perfect moment of affection that made the tears start flowing.

I agree completely.  The dozy embrace (still after about a million viewings) makes me cry almost every time. 


And, well, I guess perceiving chemistry is just subjective.  There's no right or wrong way to read it.  For me I felt the chemistry starting in the bar after the initial meeting in Aguirre's trailer.  I LOVE the opening of the movie.  In the earliest moments, before Aguirre arrives and asks them to come into his trailer... I don't so much feel chemistry as a sense of wonder or curiosity.  By the time of the bar and Ennis borrowing Jack's lighter, I definitely feel chemistry.  I suppose in terms of acting I feel this most in the way Jake/ Jack looks at Ennis and the tone of voice.  It still feels much more subtle with Heath/ Ennis, but this is right to me since Ennis is a little slower to catch-up to Jack in terms of sexual awareness.  I still contend that some of this really probably does come from Jake and Heath's camaraderie that seems pretty comfortable even in real life.

[Oregondoggie]

Ang Lee's sense of reticence annoys me every time I see the movie. 

Jack could have still peeled that damn potato and been sneaking a furtive look at Ennis' bawd (as Annie wrote it).   And, after the Second Night In The Tent, a couple of warm loving scenes BEFORE Aguirre sees them horsing around would have been nice.  The scene in the motel could have panned up from more of Ennis' torso. 

Hope I live long enough to see the remake in 30 years or so.  (With actors who aren't physical godlets, by the way!)

[Katie77]

At my first viewing of the movie, I thought they could have left the first tent scene out, or rather, could have just let us know what happened in a more subtle way...

Even though i felt that way, the movie still had a hold of me and affected me instantly.

After several more viewings, my feelings did a complete turn around, and I wanted more...wanted the love scenes to be longer and more detailed, wanted more scenes of affection, wanted to hear them speak to one another as lovers, there is just not enough...never enough.

I think Ang has given us the same frustrating feeling that Jack felt, of there never being enough, and once Jack was gone, the feeling that probably Ennis felt, that we would never see them together again.

[Dagi]

......... there is just not enough...never enough.

I think Ang has given us the same frustrating feeling that Jack felt, of there never being enough, and once Jack was gone, the feeling that probably Ennis felt, that we would never see them together again.

I completely agree with you, Katie. Of course I long for more tender scenes, as much as both of them longed for more time together. It´s a frustrating situation, ( although we have the option of rewinding and watching the scenes over and over again, and still....) and that reflects perfectly the way they felt all the time. Longing for more, more, more, and this devastating feeling of never again once Jack had died....

[moremojo]

The movie shows us a lot more affection between Ennis and Jack than the short story does. The story's characters are a lot less admirable in many ways than how the film presents them (this is especially true of Jack), and the emphasis in the original tale is how obtuse the two men are (or at least Ennis is) to what is really going on between them. They rationalize that it's just sex, when they really have fallen in love.

I feel that the film shows just enough affection between Jack and Ennis to make its salient points. I would have preferred to have seen more, but the film would have been different as a result, certainly with less of the "never enough time" flavor that imbues the overall product with such melancholy.