Author Topic: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?  (Read 14022 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Howdy folks,

hope you all had a nice weekend  :).

This week's topic is

Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?

and subsequent questions like if yes, was it was the reason she didn't confront him right on the spot, or the next morning, or after the first fishing trip? Or where there other causes as well?
Why didn't she at least confront him at the time around their divorce? What do you think might have happened if she had been standing there long enough for Ennis and Jack to see her? (Okay, the last example is quite speculative and slightly off topic - but as always, feel free to go off topic if you have interesting insights, maybe they'll lead us back to the OP eventually)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 10:44:07 pm »
Howdy folks,

hope you all had a nice weekend  :).

This week's topic is

Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?

and subsequent questions like if yes, was it was the reason she didn't confront him right on the spot, or the next morning, or after the first fishing trip? Or where there other causes as well?
Why didn't she at least confront him at the time around their divorce? What do you think might have happened if she had been standing there long enough for Ennis and Jack to see her? (Okay, the last example is quite speculative and slightly off topic - but as always, feel free to go off topic if you have interesting insights, maybe they'll lead us back to the OP eventually)
Yes, I definitely had a nice weekend! Hope you did too! Thanks for this interesting question! Yes, I think Alma was afraid to confront Ennis. I think she was a rural, uneducated, and unempowered young woman who probably didn't know Ennis very well at all and found him somewhat strange. She just bore it in silence because her siblings and parents had told her that that's just how life is and you've got to just stand what you can't fix (same as Ennis). She didn't confront Ennis even at the time of the divorce because he was responsible for the child support and she thought if she riled him she might not get it. When you are in the grip of rural poverty, everything revolves around money and any questions or feelings or sense of morality or dignity just flies out the window. What if Ennis and Jack realized she was looking at them? After an initial start or double-take, they probably would've pretended they were just goofing around, started punching each other and said something like "aw, he's from Texas, where they do stuff like that."
"chewing gum and duct tape"

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 05:43:27 pm »
I would say yes, she was doubtlessly afraid to confront him, but I don't even think fear was the only variable here...I don't even think it was in her character at the time to do something like that. Alma struck me as a gentle soul who was doing her best to please her husband and be the wife and mother she thought everyone around her expected her to be. When she tried to sway Ennis to come around to a decision pleasing to her, she coaxed him gently and softly, like with the pleas to move into apartment over the laundromat and to desist from fighting the bikers, and in the latter case she wasn't even successful at that.

Over time, we see Alma become more assertive and also more bitter. I think she started to assert herself in direct proportion to the growing sense that she had nothing more to lose.

Offline huntinbuddy

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 08:05:44 pm »
I agree with Susiebell on this one.  Alma, was simply overwhelmed at that moment she witnessed the reunion scene at the base of the stairs.  It is simply too much information for her to process. 
Nearly every time I went to the theater to see BBM, and believe me,  it was more than a few; only twice was I with an audience where a few, or in most cases, many, didn't laugh. 

I never did laugh.  Aside from Ennis finding the shirts, this is one of the more heartbreaking scenes for me, and Michelle Williams showed acting at its best.  You can just feel what she has seen, and know that at that moment, her world has just been shattered.  Does he love me?  Why did he marry me?  Who is this Jack guy?   The questions she must have had are endless.

Even the next morning as she is holding the baby, she tries to feebly wave goodbye to Ennis as he and Jack take off for the first of many fishing trips.  Doubt she waved goodbye much after the second or third fishing expedition.

Even after it appears that she has sit up all night waiting for Ennis to come home from his siesta at the Siesta, she still hasn't figured it all out, but has had all night long to go over many of the possibilities.  I don't think Alma even had it all quite put together even by the time she divorced Ennis.  I do think she had put it all together by the time the Thanksgiving dinner rolled around after she had remarried and found herself pregnant again.

She probably never let a day  or night, or waking moment go by that she didn't let this revelation that her ex-husband might be secretly gay.  She probably let it eat away at her very soul until the present day if she were a real character.   And that is what makes this movie so real, because there are many, many real life Alma's out there who have experienced the very same thing.

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 08:06:03 pm »

I feel that Alma was simply so overwhelmed by what she'd just witnessed that she was unable to say anything about it to Ennis.  I don't even think she fully understood what was happening.  I don't think that she was too afraid to confront him, rather that she didn't know how to confront him or even what she was confronting him about.

Her increasing bitterness towards him came about very gradually, as she began to understand the full implications of what had happened.  It's sad that she felt that she still couldn't confront him directly, instead choosing to trick him into a confession with this whole note-in-your-crill-case trap.

Susie  :)

Definitely agree with that Susie - IMO, Alma did not fully understand what she just witnessed - I don't believe she even had a schema or a label for it in her mind at that time until much later. As many have alluded, she thought it best to keep the status quo and continue being the best wife and mother that she knew how to be, within her domestic role. Perhaps she even thought that Ennis & Jack's behavior at the time of the reunion, while strange, might go away or only be a one-time thing. I honestly don't think she puts things together for quite awhile, owing to Ennis' consistent emotional distancing from her, and his perkiness after each camping trip.

Possibly a lot of Alma's building resentment was not simply about her believing Ennis' preference was for Jack, but more about why she could not seem to capture his attention and affections as his once or twice a year buddy could. I can only conjecture that she felt hurt, puzzled, and betrayed, especially as she probably told herself she was doing everything a wife and mother should, so why doesn't he love me? etc.

IMO, I don't think Alma tricked Ennis into a confession though - she was smart enough to contrive it and to pull it off, but I don't think she was smart enough to bluff about it.
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 08:10:06 pm »
YES.

Alma's entire world was destroyed the moment she opened that door. Every thing she had been promised since she was a little girl was yanked out from under her. Another woman she had heard of, queers she had certainly heard of, but this was the first time she had ever saw any, and one of them she was married to, had children with, he was supposed to be her support, she had taken his name and everything. Here it was Ennis had already left her emotionally, passionatly, and what else was gone happen? What if he didn't come back from that fishing trip? She had nothing in her upbringing to deal with this, same as Jack and Ennis. It was not until years later, in the safty of another port, did she have the courage to confront him.

How do I know this? Mostly conjecture, but I have heard people speculate if they are more like Jack or like Ennis. I recently came to the realization I am the most like Alma. Fortunatly, I am better prepared.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Fran

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 08:55:11 pm »
Alma was afraid to rock the boat. Period.

I think Alma didn't say anything initially because she frankly didn't know what the ramifications of what she was seeing would be.  Even after Ennis stayed out all night and then hurriedly packed for a fishing trip, Alma still wouldn't say anything because she didn't understand what it all meant and how it would affect her and the girls.  She knew that Jack was from Texas; he lived far away from them.  For all she knew at the time, the reunion was just a one-shot thing, so she keeps her mouth shut and plays it safe.  She had no way of knowing that Ennis would continue to see Jack.  I think she chose to just wait it out, hoping that whatever it was, Ennis would get it out of his system and things would go back to how they were before.  After all, she knew that Ennis wasn't running off with other guys, only Jack, and Jack lived too far away to be a real threat.  Plus, she knew he had a wife and a baby.  Since he was seemingly attached, Alma felt safe. Of course, she was in denial, but she couldn't know everything in the beginning.

I think Alma just got herself in the habit of hiding her head in the sand and denying what was going on.  Ennis only saw Jack a couple of times of year, and she could deal with it because he always came back to her and the girls.  But she didn't dare confront Ennis because she didn't want to know.  Even after she tied the note to the fishing line and Ennis failed her little test, she still wouldn't confront him, again because she did not want to know the truth.

Of course, her denial got harder to bear as the years went on and Jack continued to be a presence in Ennis's life.  She saw the anticipation on Ennis's face when he was leaving for his fishing trips, and she saw how happy he was when he returned.  Hard as she tried, she couldn't get that kind of reaction out of him, and she was frustrated because she was doing all she could.

Divorce seemed to be the logical step, but it wasn't only because of the fishing trips.  Alma had a whole laundry list of complaints about Ennis; his time with Jack was only one of them.  But I think that Monroe played a part in Alma's decision to leave Ennis.  Alma appears to be the type of woman who wouldn't leave her husband unless she had someone to run to.  Yes, she was playing it safe once again, but she was also looking out for the well-being of her children.  She wanted a good life for them.

I don't believe that Alma intended to confront Ennis at Thanksgiving.  I think she was just annoyed and jealous that the girls were so happy to be with Ennis.  If Ennis hadn't made his "Once burned" comment, Alma most likely never would have said what she said.  In Alma's defense, she was probably tired and cranky and feeling unappreciated.  Being pregnant, her hormones were probably playing havoc with her as well.   
« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 02:34:42 am by Fran »

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 08:58:48 pm »

     I just saw my husband kissing a man.  What does that mean?  Did I do something wrong to cause this?  Ennis queer?  Couldn't be, he and I have had two kids together.  If it were another woman, I'd know what to do, but how do I compete with this?  What do I say?

     I broke up with my fiance around the time the reunion kiss is supposed to have taken place, and told her it was because I had found a man I wanted to be with.  Even though she was much more sophisticated than Alma, she couldn't quite get her mind around it.  Couldn't quite understand that it wasn't her fault, and there was nothing to be done to 'fix' it.  We went to counselling together to try to help her understand.  It was a very painful experience for both of us because I loved her, even though I wasn't "in  love" with her. 
     Eventually she came to understand and found a better husband than I would ever have been able to be.

     If you look at similar posts on IMDb, you can see that many people are still confused about it., and there's a lot more known about homosexuality now than there was then.  It wasn't until 1973 that the APA officially stopped considering it a disorder.

    She may have been frightened, but I think initially she was more confused than anything.

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 10:04:55 pm »
     I just saw my husband kissing a man.  What does that mean?  Did I do something wrong to cause this?  Ennis queer?  Couldn't be, he and I have had two kids together.  If it were another woman, I'd know what to do, but how do I compete with this?  What do I say?

     I broke up with my fiance around the time the reunion kiss is supposed to have taken place, and told her it was because I had found a man I wanted to be with.  Even though she was much more sophisticated than Alma, she couldn't quite get her mind around it.  Couldn't quite understand that it wasn't her fault, and there was nothing to be done to 'fix' it.  We went to counselling together to try to help her understand.  It was a very painful experience for both of us because I loved her, even though I wasn't "in  love" with her. 
     Eventually she came to understand and found a better husband than I would ever have been able to be.

     If you look at similar posts on IMDb, you can see that many people are still confused about it., and there's a lot more known about homosexuality now than there was then.  It wasn't until 1973 that the APA officially stopped considering it a disorder.

    She may have been frightened, but I think initially she was more confused than anything.

Thank you Clyde - that's incredible insight from someone who experienced a relatively parallel set of circumstances, and in about the same time period. Though painful, how courageous of you to be honest with your wife and true to yourself.
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline KristinDaBomb

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2007, 11:05:13 pm »
I think she was afraid to confront him. She didn't really know how to confront him. Especially back when homosexuality was swept under the rug and such a thing wasn't thought of.
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