Author Topic: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?  (Read 14088 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Howdy folks,

hope you all had a nice weekend  :).

This week's topic is

Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?

and subsequent questions like if yes, was it was the reason she didn't confront him right on the spot, or the next morning, or after the first fishing trip? Or where there other causes as well?
Why didn't she at least confront him at the time around their divorce? What do you think might have happened if she had been standing there long enough for Ennis and Jack to see her? (Okay, the last example is quite speculative and slightly off topic - but as always, feel free to go off topic if you have interesting insights, maybe they'll lead us back to the OP eventually)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 10:44:07 pm »
Howdy folks,

hope you all had a nice weekend  :).

This week's topic is

Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?

and subsequent questions like if yes, was it was the reason she didn't confront him right on the spot, or the next morning, or after the first fishing trip? Or where there other causes as well?
Why didn't she at least confront him at the time around their divorce? What do you think might have happened if she had been standing there long enough for Ennis and Jack to see her? (Okay, the last example is quite speculative and slightly off topic - but as always, feel free to go off topic if you have interesting insights, maybe they'll lead us back to the OP eventually)
Yes, I definitely had a nice weekend! Hope you did too! Thanks for this interesting question! Yes, I think Alma was afraid to confront Ennis. I think she was a rural, uneducated, and unempowered young woman who probably didn't know Ennis very well at all and found him somewhat strange. She just bore it in silence because her siblings and parents had told her that that's just how life is and you've got to just stand what you can't fix (same as Ennis). She didn't confront Ennis even at the time of the divorce because he was responsible for the child support and she thought if she riled him she might not get it. When you are in the grip of rural poverty, everything revolves around money and any questions or feelings or sense of morality or dignity just flies out the window. What if Ennis and Jack realized she was looking at them? After an initial start or double-take, they probably would've pretended they were just goofing around, started punching each other and said something like "aw, he's from Texas, where they do stuff like that."
"chewing gum and duct tape"

moremojo

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 05:43:27 pm »
I would say yes, she was doubtlessly afraid to confront him, but I don't even think fear was the only variable here...I don't even think it was in her character at the time to do something like that. Alma struck me as a gentle soul who was doing her best to please her husband and be the wife and mother she thought everyone around her expected her to be. When she tried to sway Ennis to come around to a decision pleasing to her, she coaxed him gently and softly, like with the pleas to move into apartment over the laundromat and to desist from fighting the bikers, and in the latter case she wasn't even successful at that.

Over time, we see Alma become more assertive and also more bitter. I think she started to assert herself in direct proportion to the growing sense that she had nothing more to lose.

Offline huntinbuddy

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 08:05:44 pm »
I agree with Susiebell on this one.  Alma, was simply overwhelmed at that moment she witnessed the reunion scene at the base of the stairs.  It is simply too much information for her to process. 
Nearly every time I went to the theater to see BBM, and believe me,  it was more than a few; only twice was I with an audience where a few, or in most cases, many, didn't laugh. 

I never did laugh.  Aside from Ennis finding the shirts, this is one of the more heartbreaking scenes for me, and Michelle Williams showed acting at its best.  You can just feel what she has seen, and know that at that moment, her world has just been shattered.  Does he love me?  Why did he marry me?  Who is this Jack guy?   The questions she must have had are endless.

Even the next morning as she is holding the baby, she tries to feebly wave goodbye to Ennis as he and Jack take off for the first of many fishing trips.  Doubt she waved goodbye much after the second or third fishing expedition.

Even after it appears that she has sit up all night waiting for Ennis to come home from his siesta at the Siesta, she still hasn't figured it all out, but has had all night long to go over many of the possibilities.  I don't think Alma even had it all quite put together even by the time she divorced Ennis.  I do think she had put it all together by the time the Thanksgiving dinner rolled around after she had remarried and found herself pregnant again.

She probably never let a day  or night, or waking moment go by that she didn't let this revelation that her ex-husband might be secretly gay.  She probably let it eat away at her very soul until the present day if she were a real character.   And that is what makes this movie so real, because there are many, many real life Alma's out there who have experienced the very same thing.

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 08:06:03 pm »

I feel that Alma was simply so overwhelmed by what she'd just witnessed that she was unable to say anything about it to Ennis.  I don't even think she fully understood what was happening.  I don't think that she was too afraid to confront him, rather that she didn't know how to confront him or even what she was confronting him about.

Her increasing bitterness towards him came about very gradually, as she began to understand the full implications of what had happened.  It's sad that she felt that she still couldn't confront him directly, instead choosing to trick him into a confession with this whole note-in-your-crill-case trap.

Susie  :)

Definitely agree with that Susie - IMO, Alma did not fully understand what she just witnessed - I don't believe she even had a schema or a label for it in her mind at that time until much later. As many have alluded, she thought it best to keep the status quo and continue being the best wife and mother that she knew how to be, within her domestic role. Perhaps she even thought that Ennis & Jack's behavior at the time of the reunion, while strange, might go away or only be a one-time thing. I honestly don't think she puts things together for quite awhile, owing to Ennis' consistent emotional distancing from her, and his perkiness after each camping trip.

Possibly a lot of Alma's building resentment was not simply about her believing Ennis' preference was for Jack, but more about why she could not seem to capture his attention and affections as his once or twice a year buddy could. I can only conjecture that she felt hurt, puzzled, and betrayed, especially as she probably told herself she was doing everything a wife and mother should, so why doesn't he love me? etc.

IMO, I don't think Alma tricked Ennis into a confession though - she was smart enough to contrive it and to pull it off, but I don't think she was smart enough to bluff about it.
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 08:10:06 pm »
YES.

Alma's entire world was destroyed the moment she opened that door. Every thing she had been promised since she was a little girl was yanked out from under her. Another woman she had heard of, queers she had certainly heard of, but this was the first time she had ever saw any, and one of them she was married to, had children with, he was supposed to be her support, she had taken his name and everything. Here it was Ennis had already left her emotionally, passionatly, and what else was gone happen? What if he didn't come back from that fishing trip? She had nothing in her upbringing to deal with this, same as Jack and Ennis. It was not until years later, in the safty of another port, did she have the courage to confront him.

How do I know this? Mostly conjecture, but I have heard people speculate if they are more like Jack or like Ennis. I recently came to the realization I am the most like Alma. Fortunatly, I am better prepared.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Fran

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 08:55:11 pm »
Alma was afraid to rock the boat. Period.

I think Alma didn't say anything initially because she frankly didn't know what the ramifications of what she was seeing would be.  Even after Ennis stayed out all night and then hurriedly packed for a fishing trip, Alma still wouldn't say anything because she didn't understand what it all meant and how it would affect her and the girls.  She knew that Jack was from Texas; he lived far away from them.  For all she knew at the time, the reunion was just a one-shot thing, so she keeps her mouth shut and plays it safe.  She had no way of knowing that Ennis would continue to see Jack.  I think she chose to just wait it out, hoping that whatever it was, Ennis would get it out of his system and things would go back to how they were before.  After all, she knew that Ennis wasn't running off with other guys, only Jack, and Jack lived too far away to be a real threat.  Plus, she knew he had a wife and a baby.  Since he was seemingly attached, Alma felt safe. Of course, she was in denial, but she couldn't know everything in the beginning.

I think Alma just got herself in the habit of hiding her head in the sand and denying what was going on.  Ennis only saw Jack a couple of times of year, and she could deal with it because he always came back to her and the girls.  But she didn't dare confront Ennis because she didn't want to know.  Even after she tied the note to the fishing line and Ennis failed her little test, she still wouldn't confront him, again because she did not want to know the truth.

Of course, her denial got harder to bear as the years went on and Jack continued to be a presence in Ennis's life.  She saw the anticipation on Ennis's face when he was leaving for his fishing trips, and she saw how happy he was when he returned.  Hard as she tried, she couldn't get that kind of reaction out of him, and she was frustrated because she was doing all she could.

Divorce seemed to be the logical step, but it wasn't only because of the fishing trips.  Alma had a whole laundry list of complaints about Ennis; his time with Jack was only one of them.  But I think that Monroe played a part in Alma's decision to leave Ennis.  Alma appears to be the type of woman who wouldn't leave her husband unless she had someone to run to.  Yes, she was playing it safe once again, but she was also looking out for the well-being of her children.  She wanted a good life for them.

I don't believe that Alma intended to confront Ennis at Thanksgiving.  I think she was just annoyed and jealous that the girls were so happy to be with Ennis.  If Ennis hadn't made his "Once burned" comment, Alma most likely never would have said what she said.  In Alma's defense, she was probably tired and cranky and feeling unappreciated.  Being pregnant, her hormones were probably playing havoc with her as well.   
« Last Edit: September 23, 2007, 02:34:42 am by Fran »

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 08:58:48 pm »

     I just saw my husband kissing a man.  What does that mean?  Did I do something wrong to cause this?  Ennis queer?  Couldn't be, he and I have had two kids together.  If it were another woman, I'd know what to do, but how do I compete with this?  What do I say?

     I broke up with my fiance around the time the reunion kiss is supposed to have taken place, and told her it was because I had found a man I wanted to be with.  Even though she was much more sophisticated than Alma, she couldn't quite get her mind around it.  Couldn't quite understand that it wasn't her fault, and there was nothing to be done to 'fix' it.  We went to counselling together to try to help her understand.  It was a very painful experience for both of us because I loved her, even though I wasn't "in  love" with her. 
     Eventually she came to understand and found a better husband than I would ever have been able to be.

     If you look at similar posts on IMDb, you can see that many people are still confused about it., and there's a lot more known about homosexuality now than there was then.  It wasn't until 1973 that the APA officially stopped considering it a disorder.

    She may have been frightened, but I think initially she was more confused than anything.

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 10:04:55 pm »
     I just saw my husband kissing a man.  What does that mean?  Did I do something wrong to cause this?  Ennis queer?  Couldn't be, he and I have had two kids together.  If it were another woman, I'd know what to do, but how do I compete with this?  What do I say?

     I broke up with my fiance around the time the reunion kiss is supposed to have taken place, and told her it was because I had found a man I wanted to be with.  Even though she was much more sophisticated than Alma, she couldn't quite get her mind around it.  Couldn't quite understand that it wasn't her fault, and there was nothing to be done to 'fix' it.  We went to counselling together to try to help her understand.  It was a very painful experience for both of us because I loved her, even though I wasn't "in  love" with her. 
     Eventually she came to understand and found a better husband than I would ever have been able to be.

     If you look at similar posts on IMDb, you can see that many people are still confused about it., and there's a lot more known about homosexuality now than there was then.  It wasn't until 1973 that the APA officially stopped considering it a disorder.

    She may have been frightened, but I think initially she was more confused than anything.

Thank you Clyde - that's incredible insight from someone who experienced a relatively parallel set of circumstances, and in about the same time period. Though painful, how courageous of you to be honest with your wife and true to yourself.
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline KristinDaBomb

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2007, 11:05:13 pm »
I think she was afraid to confront him. She didn't really know how to confront him. Especially back when homosexuality was swept under the rug and such a thing wasn't thought of.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 12:30:06 pm »
Plus, to Alma, Ennis' behavior wasn't just strange or shocking, and Ennis wasn't just being an unfaithful husband. She wasn't upset only because her husband appears interested in someone else, or because he has a side to him she didn't suspect. In Alma's view (as in Ennis' view and lots of others people's, back in 1967), what Ennis was doing was, in and of itself, shameful and wrong.

When she confronts him on Thanksgiving, she doesn't just say, "Don't try to fool me no more, Ennis, I know what it means ... you were cheating on me!" or even, "... you are secretly gay!" -- either of which an enlightened modern wife might, in her place, justifiably say. No, she uses the word "nasty!" Homosexuals, to Alma, are nasty.





Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 08:09:05 pm »
Alma was afraid to rock the boat. Period.


This essentially sums up my perception of the situation.  I don't really think fear of Ennis motivated Alma into not confronting him about the Jack-situation for so many years.  I'm not sure I really buy the idea that we're supposed to see Alma as afraid of Ennis (as is sometimes discussed in interpretations of her character... even in interviews with the actors, etc.).  Ennis was intimidating, but I don't really think she was scared of him herself.

I think she was mostly consumed by confusion and a true fear of "rocking the boat."  She was probably raised to think divorce was somewhat shameful.  Prior to the divorce, she was probably really worried about what would happen to her if rumors about Ennis started spreading or if indeed a divorce were to happen.  I think after the divorce she continued to remain discrete about what she knew about Ennis for fear of how rumors might impact the kids and even her own reputation (still).  So, I think big motivating factors for her had to do (always) with reputation and also with her and the kids' ability to maintain a somewhat secure/ stable lifestyle.

I agree that we see her become more and more assertive... maybe especially starting with the argument that happens while the kids are on the swing-set.  I applaud her for standing up for herself in bed with Ennis in the scene right before the divorce. 

But, by the time she confronts Ennis in the kitchen at Thanksgiving, I agree that her bitterness manifests itself as a form of homophobia (especially with the Jack "Nasty" comment... which is the thing that really seems to set Ennis off... and rightly so).

I find Alma to actually be one of the most difficult characters in the film.  Difficult in terms of interpreting her, but also a little difficult in terms of evoking sympathy (at least for me). 

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Offline jstephens9

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2007, 11:59:12 pm »
I agree with several of you on here in that I do not think Alma was afraid to confront Ennis. Instead, she was totally confused by what she saw. I don't even really think she wants to admit to herself what she saw much less confront Ennis about it. I think she wants to forget that it happened, but every time Jack appears she become more haunted and realizes what is going on. Still, I don't think she wants to admit it to herself. I think her whole world was suddenly turned upside down in a way that she could not bring herself to any kind of understanding of it. She still does not really think it is Ennis' fault even in the Thanksgiving scene. She thinks it was all Jack's fault and doing. I believe she totally thought that if Jack would have not existed all would have been fine. And in fact many of us here on the forum might think the same as her since there has always been a debate about that. Obviously, it was not Jack's fault, but what would have happened to Ennis if he had never met Jack? Remember the last time they saw each other, Ennis even suggests that it is Jack's fault that he is the way he is.

moremojo

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2007, 11:23:32 am »
Remember the last time they saw each other, Ennis even suggests that it is Jack's fault that he is the way he is.
And Ennis is quite right there...without Jack, he would never have met his soul-mate and found the kind of love that many of us will only dream of securing.

Offline jstephens9

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2007, 12:05:31 pm »
So true moremojo  ;)

Offline Artiste

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Alma was afraid to confront then Ennis her husband?

Afraid?  Right there and then?? I do not think so, since she does in a way do so... remember what she says and how??

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline Artiste

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What do you think then and now ??

Offline Katie77

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A very interesting subject, from back in 1997, that Artiste has opened up again, and for me, having missed it back then when it started, would like to add my story to the comments.

First of all, one of the posts that really affected me the most was this one....

 
I agree with Susiebell on this one.  Alma, was simply overwhelmed at that moment she witnessed the reunion scene at the base of the stairs.  It is simply too much information for her to process. 

Nearly every time I went to the theater to see BBM, and believe me,  it was more than a few; only twice was I with an audience where a few, or in most cases, many, didn't laugh. 

I never did laugh.  Aside from Ennis finding the shirts, this is one of the more heartbreaking scenes for me, and Michelle Williams showed acting at its best.  You can just feel what she has seen, and know that at that moment, her world has just been shattered.  Does he love me?  Why did he marry me?  Who is this Jack guy?   The questions she must have had are endless.

Even the next morning as she is holding the baby, she tries to feebly wave goodbye to Ennis as he and Jack take off for the first of many fishing trips.  Doubt she waved goodbye much after the second or third fishing expedition.

Even after it appears that she has sit up all night waiting for Ennis to come home from his siesta at the Siesta, she still hasn't figured it all out, but has had all night long to go over many of the possibilities.  I don't think Alma even had it all quite put together even by the time she divorced Ennis.  I do think she had put it all together by the time the Thanksgiving dinner rolled around after she had remarried and found herself pregnant again.

She probably never let a day  or night, or waking moment go by that she didn't let this revelation that her ex-husband might be secretly gay.  She probably let it eat away at her very soul until the present day if she were a real character.   And that is what makes this movie so real, because there are many, many real life Alma's out there who have experienced the very same thing.

Firstly, I was upset and astounded that anyone could laugh at that scene. How could anyone not feel for Alma at that moment. And if they did not have compassion for what SHE was feeling, have some emotional fear for Ennis and Jack that this may cause some future destruction to their relationship.

When I first saw the movie, I did not know the story, when they embraced in the reunion scene I was elated, feeling so good, then when Alma opened the door, I gasped and became quite breathless, in that split second I felt an overwhelming pain for her, and at the same time I felt a fear, that the boys had been "caught". It was probably the most memorable emotional scene in the movie for me, and still haunts me even after 50 plus viewings of the movie.

There is a personal reason for my emotions over that scene, because it gave me an insight into how my own mother would have felt, back in the same time period, when she too, walked in on my father in the arms of a man.

She too, had been married to him for several years, had two daughters (me, being the youngest). She actually confronted him, I remember her telling me, the only thing she could think to threaten him with was that she would "tell his mother". In some ways, that threat seems a little bit frivolous and even humourous now, but at the time, it was the worst thing she could think of to say to him, and hurt him. Dad, then retaliated and made threats himself.  He was not a violent man, never physically hurt my mum, so she was more intimidated with his threats more than afraid of them. No doubt it was a very explosive situation and a frightening one for both of them.

Somehow, believe it or not, they got through this initial confrontation. Somehow, for a couple of years afterwards, my mother accepted that my father was gay, and even accepted his gay friends. I can remember even as a 7yr old, these "friends", who we enjoyed social outings with as a family. Of course, I did not know what was actually happening, or detect anything other than that these men were friends.

It was the mid 50's, and homosexuality was illegal in Australia then, my mother was just a young housewife, raising two kids, obviously staying was a better option to her than leaving. She kept the "secret", not only because of the social reactions and embarrassment that would have been provoked but because there was the possiblity that my father would have been prosecuted by the law for his actions.

Eventually, a few years later, we moved to Sydney, 100 miles north of where we lived. But this move was their separation. Dad moved to an apartment with his male partner, and mum and us two kids, moved to another apartment. Mum got a job, and dad helped her out with the finances, and we spent a lot of weekends with Dad, and life went on from there.

Mum eventually remarried, and is 81 now, and in good health and has had a happy life.

Dad and his partner stayed together for 14 years. Dad committed suicide a few years after that partnership broke up. He was 56.

As you can see, Brokeback Mountain, had many parallels to my own life, but most importantly as I watched it (then aged 55), for the first time, I finally realized and understood both the emotions and fears that both my father and mother must have gone through all those years before.
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I just re-read this thread and definitely don't think it was any fear of Ennis. The only scene where Alma seems to be actually afraid of him is the Thanksgiving kitchen scene -- and even then, only at the end when she gets a very explosive reaction.

I can remember the era Alma was living in clearly (c. 1967) and an adult in those days, even someone in a big city, was raised with the idea that homosexuality was a mental disorder.  There was also an entrenched notion, that you still see in anti-gay groups that (quoting John Shelby Spong here) homosexuals were "heterosexuals behaving badly."

Alma most likely didn't think about homosexuality much and if she did, her mental image was probably that of some creepy person who looked like they'd spent their life locked up in a basement, someone you couldn't trust your children around.  Ennis didn't fit any of that so she might have been devastated that he was being unfaithful to her but she might have thought for awhile that he'd get over it.  On the other hand, if she'd seen him kissing another woman that way I'd bet she'd speak up the second he walked back through the door.

Offline Artiste

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Merci Katie !

Wow, your post reveals such interests !

Thanks very, very much !

Since mother is calling me, I will come back later. And if I forget, please remind me !

Hugs! Au revoir... chère (dear) Katie !

Offline brokeplex

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"aw, he's from Texas, where they do stuff like that."


that is absolutely true, we do that kind of stuff here in TX.

I think that Alma was so shocked by what she had seen that she didn't know what to do or say other than ask Ennis to pick up some more cigarettes. That shows you the power of those addictive cigarettes. Nothing in Alma's life experiences would have prepared her for the sight of Ennis kissing a real live Texan! Alma even may have blamed herself, thinking that she wasn't "good enough" for Ennis. Finally, a few years later, I think Alma got the picture and yelled at Ennis what she should have said years sooner: "get out of my house, Ennis del Mar!"  for what its worth

Offline mariez

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As you can see, Brokeback Mountain, had many parallels to my own life, but most importantly as I watched it (then aged 55), for the first time, I finally realized and understood both the emotions and fears that both my father and mother must have gone through all those years before.

Your post touched me deeply.  Thanks for sharing such personal memories. 

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Artiste

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May I say likewise like Marie does that your post is touching !!

Au revoir,
hugs! And we need to think more about issues in Brokeback Mountain movie / Annie's story !!

Offline Sandy

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I think Alma was too shocked to react.  She saw something new about her husband, and I don’t think that she would have even, in those few moments, thought about what it meant for him, for her, for her family-I think she was just so astounded and overwhelmed that she didn’t have room for thought (or too many thoughts which didn’t allow her to think of one).

When Ennis came home the next day, and she was sitting at the table, I sensed a calmness about her.  She didn’t jump up when he arrived; I think she may well have raised what had happened (depending on how he reacted to her).  Of course, he arrived in a flurry, storming impatiently in and leaving like a tornado.  When she went to the window to see Jack, she looked like she could kill him in her rage.   

Over the years her bitterness grew however I saw her character develop a strength that wasn’t present at the start-she would look at the postcard and still leave it out for him, and she stood up to him when she was in bed.  And of course, she was the one who filed for divorce.

I don’t think she planned to bring it up with him at Thanksgiving, but I definitely think it was on the cards. 

She had reached security with Monroe, who had clearly wanted to be with her from the beginning.  She felt stable and loved, and was in a position of strength, knowing that she was a good wife and mother, that she wasn’t to blame.

I think the words she used are the most telling - she told Ennis not to try and fool her no more, she knew what it meant.  She had felt stupid, had felt that Ennis thought she was a fool and wanted him to know that she wasn’t, that she knew.  Interestingly enough though, she didn’t mention that she had seen them-only that she had known from the note on the case.  I wonder why. 

Offline Artiste

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It was more tha shocking Sandy ?

Offline brokeplex

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I think the words she used are the most telling - she told Ennis not to try and fool her no more, she knew what it meant.  She had felt stupid, had felt that Ennis thought she was a fool and wanted him to know that she wasn’t, that she knew.  Interestingly enough though, she didn’t mention that she had seen them-only that she had known from the note on the case.  I wonder why. 


I think that Ennis was the love of Alma's life and this is reflected in the time that she took to divorce him, and the lingering bitterness after the divorce. Alma was very disappointed, but she picked herself up, went on with her life and did fine. Her dream of a life with the man she loved was destroyed, but she survived. And that is why I have always admired the Alma character. She reached into herself, and found the strength to make a new life. I just wish the Jack had found that strength much earlier when it was clear that Ennis would never be able to accept his love.

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Well said brokeplex, but it was also more than that ?

Offline brokeplex

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issues between people who are in strained marriages are always complicated, I think that the root of Alma's reluctance to just come out and confront Ennis right away, is her deep love for Ennis and perhaps her fear that she was at fault. She probably also had a difficult time getting her mind around the image of two men in a passionate kissing embrace. Nothing in her life could have prepared Alma for confronting this issue. But once Alma understood where she stood with Ennis, she played her cards very well.

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Meric brokeplex !

Indeed as you say:
    She probably also had a difficult time getting her mind around the image of two men in a passionate kissing embrace. Nothing in her life could have prepared Alma for confronting this issue.           
........

Brokeplex: it seems that she did not suspect at all that Ennis will be be kissing another man ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Meric brokeplex !

Indeed as you say:
    She probably also had a difficult time getting her mind around the image of two men in a passionate kissing embrace. Nothing in her life could have prepared Alma for confronting this issue.           
........

Brokeplex: it seems that she did not suspect at all that Ennis will be be kissing another man ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

I think that you are correct, before she actually saw the incident, she had no clue that it could even occur to Ennis. It was a total shock to her. I think her little world fell apart at that moment. But then this is where I learned right away to admire Alma. Instead of becoming a whining griper, she adapted, she survived, and she made a new marriage with Monroe later on. Alma could have easily become a professional victim, bemoaning her marriage mistake. Instead she bided her time and survived.

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Merci encore brokeplex !

Your post details well, and hints more than we think !

Alma survived that two-men-kissing scene even if one was her husband whom she loved and continued to admire him !!

Even in the 1950's... 1960's, I had no idea that there were other homosexuals than I am descovering myself ! So for Alma to see that scene was not only a surprise but a schock... since we see her react that way. She could have contested both, right there and then ?

Au revoir,
hugs!