Author Topic: Do You Support The Death Penalty?  (Read 166201 times)

Scott6373

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #140 on: October 22, 2007, 03:37:18 pm »
...and geting on track...I am against the death penalty, despite my stand on life rights as they pertain to abortion.  Thanks heavens I registered as Independant!!  I'm just to the left of right as long as the right isn't too far from the middle and the left isn't making me give up caviar and plastic trash bags.  I am as politically confused as Hillary and Rudy...holy crap!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #141 on: October 22, 2007, 03:41:04 pm »
I'm confused, and I have some mixed feelings about when a fetus becomes a human, and I admit I'm not sure of the answer. But if a fetus is NOT a human being, why did they convict Scott Peterson of a double murder when he killed his wife and her unborn child. It seems to me if a fetus is NOT a human, he should have only been convicted of the murder of his wife. Don't you agree? It's almost as if a double standard is at play here.  ???
It is a double standard. If the woman wants it then it is a child if the woman doesn't want it, it's a fetus or mass of cells.
Truth is no baby can live outside the womb even at 9 months. It has to be cared for. The most premature baby was only 21weeks old gestationnaly and was smaller than an ink pen. Yet she lived.
My dauhter was born at 29weeks. We were given the option to terminate the pregnancy if we wanted too. I was flabbergasted! I told that nurse to never mention tht to us again. The next day we had a 3lb baby girl.
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #142 on: October 22, 2007, 07:22:20 pm »
I'm confused, and I have some mixed feelings about when a fetus becomes a human, and I admit I'm not sure of the answer. But if a fetus is NOT a human being, why did they convict Scott Peterson of a double murder when he killed his wife and her unborn child. It seems to me if a fetus is NOT a human, he should have only been convicted for the murder of his wife. Don't you agree? It's almost as if a double standard is at play here.  ???

David, the difference is viability outside the womb.  As I stated in my earlier post Scott Peterson got tried for 2 murders because his unborn child was far enough along to have survived outside the womb on its own.  Presumably without the intense medical care needed for some preemies (some preemies are born so premature that not so long ago, the child would not have survived.  That is nature trying to take its natural course).  I'm not sure of the exact criteria.

So what I get from all of the last few messages is that we're not so much arguing a woman's choice is when a fetus becomes a person.

When a baby gets a 'soul' if such a thing exists, is a metaphysical question and science is never going to be able to answer it because it's not a measurable quantity.

What makes someone a person IMO is easier to answer.

If the Terri Schiavo case taught us anything , it was that a human can smile, grimace, be sensitive to light, breathe, defecate, open and close their eyes and still be just as gone as if she were six foot under.

Scientific testing has demonstrated that the cerebral cortex (where the brain houses higher thought processes, including consciousness, intellect, memories, and feelings) is where the who of someone is.  Once that area of the brain is gone - or in the case of the fetus - doesn't yet exist - literally, the lights are on, but no one is home.  The body is just an electrochemical bag of meat going through the processes and automated actions of coded cells.

And that pretty much is a place where we can draw the line.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 07:54:54 am by delalluvia »

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #143 on: October 22, 2007, 10:27:10 pm »



    I agree it is easy to get an abortion these days, with the help of your doctor.. But with the trend that
is going on now.  It is going to be more and more difficult. There is a situation that is occuring gradually
across this country..Not spoken of by many people, and I only found it out by accident..  There are many
hospitals these days "combining the administrative cost.."  For the obvious result of cheapening the cost of
the care.. The thing however is going on across this country..and if you do your homework, you will find, that
many of these activities are a Catholic hospital, which is of course in a tax free situation, making it better also.
But in every case I have seen there is a case where after the joiniing the second hospital that had allowed
people to have abortions, no longer allowed them because they were then under the auspicis of the Catholic
hospital and its precepts.  So since they couldnt achieve the no abortions thru legislation, they can do it thru
this kind of actions...I know some will see this as either as anti catholic..not true..many members of my family are
Catholic..my daughter works for a Catholic hospital....You may then think I see trouble and conspiricy where none
exist..also not true..I just see a trend that is going in a certain direction, and the results are obvious..So call me
whatever you like...I have probably been called worse...Its a result of giving your opinion...



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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #144 on: October 22, 2007, 11:35:15 pm »
Not to open a whole new can of worms -- maybe we should call this the controversy thread, or the "what is killing" thread -- but I wonder how many abortion opponents are in favor of the war in Iraq. Many, I would guess, in "real life." But how about here? If it's wrong to destroy an innocent unborn life, is it wrong to destroy an innocent Iraqi civilian?

Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #145 on: October 23, 2007, 12:45:38 am »
dammit this thread has me so pissed off.  We are discussing some emotionally charged topics here.  No its not all right to kill an innocent Iraqi civilian and no a fetus is not a blob of cells either..  I dont write as articulate as most of the folks here, but ive been tuning in and reading.. Death penalty, abortion, war all very difficult topics to debate.  Im sure its one that we can go on and on and on about.  At least we can disagree without being disagreeable.

Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #146 on: October 23, 2007, 12:59:46 am »
There's one thing that I witnessed that horrified me.  There was a scene going on between two 20 somethings back when i was twenty something.. and the girl got pregnant by her boyfriend,  and he was screaming and yelling and throwing a damn fit.  He was demanding she get an abortion pushing her and just being a real jerk.  It really upset me because I know that girl didnt want to give up her baby.  And some of you have said that if a woman gets pregnant and chooses to have the kid and forces the FATHER to pay child support for 18 years that they are so wrong.  Well Ill tell you what it takes two people to make a baby.
A father and a mother.. No one should be forced to have an abortion by a man or gov't.  It is for a woman and hopefully a man together to decided.   In my case way back when i had my abortion, the love of my life soon was out of my life..maybe because I killed his baby.  Men want to have kids too.  If he would have told me, honey lets have this baby, things may have been different.  I guess in all honesty seeing it in black and white, I guess, as I assumed then, it didnt matter to him.   See there's all different sides to this coin..  Just my 2 cents

Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #147 on: October 23, 2007, 01:03:02 am »
yes we are talking about things that are very close to the bone aren't we?

I hope you know, Dev that we are not in ANY way talking about you or your decisions....we are talking big picture. I feel for you and believe you did the best you could at the time. We all have things in our lifes we wish we could revisit. Lort knows I do.

You know we love you here Dev.

{{{{Dev}}}}

I am sorry you are upset.

and I am glad you spoke up about your feelings. how can I help?

Thanks for the Hugs Jess.  Its good to have my fellow brokies in my life..

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #148 on: October 23, 2007, 01:06:46 am »
There's one thing that I witnessed that horrified me.  There was a scene going on between two 20 somethings back when i was twenty something.. and the girl got pregnant by her boyfriend,  and he was screaming and yelling and throwing a damn fit.  He was demanding she get an abortion pushing her and just being a real jerk.  It really upset me because I know that girl didnt want to give up her baby.  And some of you have said that if a woman gets pregnant and chooses to have the kid and forces the FATHER to pay child support for 18 years that they are so wrong.  Well Ill tell you what it takes two people to make a baby.
A father and a mother.. No one should be forced to have an abortion by a man or gov't.  It is for a woman and hopefully a man together to decided.   In my case way back when i had my abortion, the love of my life soon was out of my life..maybe because I killed his baby.  Men want to have kids too.  If he would have told me, honey lets have this baby, things may have been different.  I guess in all honesty seeing it in black and white, I guess, as I assumed then, it didnt matter to him.   See there's all different sides to this coin..  Just my 2 cents

Gosh, what a horrible thing to have witnessed dev.  But you're right.  There are differnt sides to this coin.  You may want to wonder if the woman who wanted this baby so much needs to be tied financially to a man so out of control that he could be verbally and physically abusive to his pregnant girlfriend.  If he's this abusive now, what will happen in the future when he's forced by the law to pay her?

Perhaps she needed to think more deeply about getting pregnant by this person who was so opposed to the idea of having a child that he reacted violently.  Did they even talk about it?  What they would do if an accident happened when they started to have sex?

Yes, it takes two to people to make a baby, but it requires them to be thinking about it first.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Do You Support The Death Penalty?
« Reply #149 on: October 23, 2007, 01:08:26 am »



       Doctors in fertility clinics everyday dispose of viable zygots, because they have have used the ones they needed, and dispose of the rest..should we then carry this to the next step and force him to implant them or be tried for murder...This is an issue to be decided by the individual..in spite of the strong rhetoric that has been expressed here
that the government interferes in our every day life to our bodies...They shouldnt even tho they do..and they
certainly shouldnt in this case....Now I have extreme issues with partial birth abortions...I think it should only be
done in case of the mothers life or the childs..if you cant figure out what to do before that..you are stuck..as far as
im concerned...have the child and then place it for adoption if you are unwilling or unable to care for the child...its the
best for the child...



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